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What happened to this team?

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Old
10-28-2011, 03:28 AM
  #26
dats81
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Originally Posted by DeflatedFootball7 View Post
Last year everyone said our defense was the best.

Pronger-Carle
Coburn-Timmonen
Meszaros-O'Donnel


Pronger-Carle
Coburn-Timmonen
Meszaros-Lilja

I only notice one change and yet were 10 X worse. Carle went from being a steady offensive defensman to a physically intimidated turnover machine. Coburn was great last year but he just looks lost or awful every damn game. These two are in contract years and yet there playing awful. Words can not describe how angry I have been at Meszaros though. Guy has gone right back to his Tampa Bay form. Seriously supposed to be a good anchor for the defense when Prongs and Kimmo retire and yet he's just gone back to being a glorified overpaid 3rd paring defenseman. Lilja has been bad as many predicted but his play is well...expected. But the rest? Just atrocious. Oh yeah and then there is Walker. lol.

The forwards have also been bad. JVR is supposed to make up for the lost offense but he just looks like a brick slowly skating along occasionally managing to use his "hardest shot on the team" to shoot into the goalies chest. And to my great surprise Giroux has left his hot start somewhere around Albuquerque. He's playing probably the worst hockey he's ever played since he joined the organization. Briere is starting to pick it up, same goes for Jagr and Hartnell. On the other hand Voracek is infuriating. Does he ever shoot the puck? Or does he just skate around in circles for hours on end. He looks like the forward version of Kaberle out there. Talbot and Couturier have both been fine. Glad Couts is staying personally. Shelley has actually been okay playing with the two. And Rinaldo is not really all that noticeable so whatever. Nodl is awful as expected.

It's good to see Bryzgalov and Bobrovsky taking the blame Bryz especially. But seriously could the two of them be any worse? Bryz looks like he doesn't give a damn half the time and Bob just looks like he's in playoff form all over again.

I'm just not sure anymore. How has "the best defense in the nhl", "the forward core with the best depth" and "quite possibly one of the best if not THE best goalie tandems in the NHL" gotten this bad. It's upsetting. I hope we can turn it around soon. It's tough trying to stay positive.
Our defense has never been the best or even among the best!

It's a mixture of aging former All-Stars (Pronger, Timonen) who seem to be getting slower each game, mid age players with an unbalanced skillset (Carle, Coburn) and fill-in guys that get exposed every shift.

People are making fun of Pittsburgh because their defense can't play - but man, guys like Orpik or even Lovejoy would make this team better defensively instantly!

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Old
10-28-2011, 04:02 AM
  #27
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What happened? The GM traded away two great Olympians to make room for a Spoiled goalie who is playing awful. That sums it up in one sentence.

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10-28-2011, 04:25 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by nhlfan9191 View Post
What happened? The GM traded away two great Olympians to make room for a Spoiled goalie who is playing awful. That sums it up in one sentence.
Umm ... No?

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Old
10-28-2011, 05:52 AM
  #29
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Scoring 8 goals and still losing a game is ridiculous, yes.

Defense is a team-wide discipline. This team is young, new, and still trying to form cohesion with each other. Does that excuse such a poor defensive showing? Not really. Does that provide some sort of incite as to what the problem might be? Sure.

Give it time. We have lots of young guys who have only had 10 games (less for some) to attempt to develop chemistry and cohesion with each other.

Bad games happen. The sky isn't falling.

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Old
10-28-2011, 06:36 AM
  #30
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The next few weeks are going to be hell.
After that span, they either go on a big winning streak or someone will lose his job.

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Old
10-28-2011, 07:57 AM
  #31
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We need to trade Giroux, JVR, Couturier and Schenn. This team will not make the playoffs. Richards and Carter have been crank calling Timonen and Pronger, creating a rift in the locker room. Scottie Upshall and Joffrey Lupul lit a flaming bag of dog poop and left it on Homer's door step. This team has to move to Kansas City if it wants any chance at ever winning another game.

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Old
10-28-2011, 08:06 AM
  #32
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I think this team will be fine by the end of the season, a definite playoff team and could make some noise in the playoffs as well.

They just need to keep evaluating some of the youngsters and get rid of the goons (I know, tough for Flyers to do). I say they likely make a deal for a defenseman well before the trade deadline.

The biggest positives are Jagr, Hartnell and Briere getting going, and Bryz not casually taking a beating, but genuinely shamed by it.

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Old
10-28-2011, 08:16 AM
  #33
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Lavi and friends certainly have their work cut out for them

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Old
10-28-2011, 08:16 AM
  #34
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I know people don't want to hear it, but I really think they're starting to tune out Laviolette. The same thing happened not too long ago under the watch of Ken Hitchcock. The only difference between then and now is that Laviolette has managed to win a few games and this roster is much better compared to the one Ken had to work with.

This is where Laviolette really needs his leadership group to step up to the plate and get everyone back on the same page. The big thing that I see from watching games is that they aren't playing as a team - some people seem to be trying to do too much and others are content to just go along for the ride. The other thing this team needs is to have players step up and take on roles that might not be as glamorous as a scoring role.

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Old
10-28-2011, 09:07 AM
  #35
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At this point I am really starting to question Laviolette's lineup and ice time decisions. Voraceck should be a key player to get going but he has seemed like an after thought. And I think he has actually played well when he's been out there. He's better defensively than I thought he would be and he's seemed to have his legs more so than others on most nights

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Old
10-28-2011, 09:07 AM
  #36
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We are lost without P

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Old
10-28-2011, 09:19 AM
  #37
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itll be alright. team is going through a rough patch.

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10-28-2011, 09:21 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by G Money View Post
We are lost without P
I didn't see the game against St. Louis, but from what I gathered, we were perfectly able to play like **** with Pronger on the team as well.

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Old
10-28-2011, 10:06 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by DeflatedFootball7 View Post
You know what I hate? When you point out Giroux isn't playing 110% this fanbase starts a riot. It seriously ticks me off. Because he looked like he could barely skate tonight. Although to his credit, so did most of the team.
You know what I hate? When people use the term 110%, there's no such ****ing thing. If you can give "110%" then that is your 100% which means every other time you're giving less than everything, you cannot give more than everything. *rips out hair, throws bananas and rubs nipples on toast*

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Old
10-28-2011, 10:37 AM
  #40
Ironmanrulez
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Teamgame!! So blame the whole Team!!

iīam not impressed with Bryz, Voracek, JVR, Briere, Hartnell, Coburn, Lilja, Walker, Coburn, Schenn and all other i havenīt mentioned.

But we must stop blaming this on one person! Bryz looks not sharp in net, but with the turnovers of the defence its very difficult. But when Simmonds donīt hit the goal while he is standing in the crease (Montreal Game) we never will win a game.

I canīt see flyers style of play. Where is the pressure, i donīt see hard hits (only Talbot plays hard). It seems the shutout in the beginning of the seasons wasnīt good for a lot of players.

The whole team plays like crap and if we donīt start to realize that we will have a huge problem!

just my two cents

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Old
10-28-2011, 10:50 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by G Money View Post
We are lost without P
Panaccio?

I agree. We are lost without him. He knows exactly what's wrong with this team, and he intends to fix it.

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Old
10-28-2011, 11:11 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I know people don't want to hear it, but I really think they're starting to tune out Laviolette. The same thing happened not too long ago under the watch of Ken Hitchcock. The only difference between then and now is that Laviolette has managed to win a few games and this roster is much better compared to the one Ken had to work with.

This is where Laviolette really needs his leadership group to step up to the plate and get everyone back on the same page. The big thing that I see from watching games is that they aren't playing as a team - some people seem to be trying to do too much and others are content to just go along for the ride. The other thing this team needs is to have players step up and take on roles that might not be as glamorous as a scoring role.
Not sure if they are tuning him out just yet but I do think they don't get his message and not enough of the leaders trying to bridge the gap. I still think its because he may not be focusing on how the team should play without the puck b/c they seem totally effin lost out there. He needs to adjust and adapt to the team he actually has not what he thought he had in the preseason and first 4-5 games.

When they establish the forecheck and have puck possession (keys to Lavi's system) they do fine ..problem is that they don't have the team right now to impose their will and dictate the play often enough via puck possession. Big problem is being horrid at the faceoff circle..also some people that have had to step into new roles (forwards in defensive roles) are not up to speed yet and then you have the rookies engaged in on the job training. To me a coach like Murray would do better than Lavy in this situation....Lavy is a task master more than an actual patient teacher. He is like the professor that expects you to have all the prerequisite knowledge when that is not always the case given many variables when trying to teach a class of individuals with different learning styles. A one size fits all approach isn't going to cut it..you need to be smarter and adjust ...not rigid and forceful/imposing....(bag skates etc)

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Old
10-28-2011, 12:19 PM
  #43
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Not sure if they are tuning him out just yet but I do think they don't get his message and not enough of the leaders trying to bridge the gap. I still think its because he may not be focusing on how the team should play without the puck b/c they seem totally effin lost out there. He needs to adjust and adapt to the team he actually has not what he thought he had in the preseason and first 4-5 games.

When they establish the forecheck and have puck possession (keys to Lavi's system) they do fine ..problem is that they don't have the team right now to impose their will and dictate the play often enough via puck possession. Big problem is being horrid at the faceoff circle..also some people that have had to step into new roles (forwards in defensive roles) are not up to speed yet and then you have the rookies engaged in on the job training. To me a coach like Murray would do better than Lavy in this situation....Lavy is a task master more than an actual patient teacher. He is like the professor that expects you to have all the prerequisite knowledge when that is not always the case given many variables when trying to teach a class of individuals with different learning styles. A one size fits all approach isn't going to cut it..you need to be smarter and adjust ...not rigid and forceful/imposing....(bag skates etc)
Agreed. I also think it's time that Laviolette and company just look at getting back to basics with everyone and once everyone gets back to basics and doing the little things, then start implementing more of a systematic approach.

Personally, I don't want to see Laviolette fired because I do think he's one of the best coaches this team has had and his focus on puck control and offensive hockey is what this team can be built around. Right now, I think the focus needs to switch back to a bit of defensive hockey to keep everyone's head above water right now.

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Old
10-28-2011, 12:22 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Coutsiephan View Post
Not sure if they are tuning him out just yet but I do think they don't get his message and not enough of the leaders trying to bridge the gap. I still think its because he may not be focusing on how the team should play without the puck b/c they seem totally effin lost out there. He needs to adjust and adapt to the team he actually has not what he thought he had in the preseason and first 4-5 games.

When they establish the forecheck and have puck possession (keys to Lavi's system) they do fine ..problem is that they don't have the team right now to impose their will and dictate the play often enough via puck possession. Big problem is being horrid at the faceoff circle..also some people that have had to step into new roles (forwards in defensive roles) are not up to speed yet and then you have the rookies engaged in on the job training. To me a coach like Murray would do better than Lavy in this situation....Lavy is a task master more than an actual patient teacher. He is like the professor that expects you to have all the prerequisite knowledge when that is not always the case given many variables when trying to teach a class of individuals with different learning styles. A one size fits all approach isn't going to cut it..you need to be smarter and adjust ...not rigid and forceful/imposing....(bag skates etc)

Ditto!

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Old
10-28-2011, 12:31 PM
  #45
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As soon as they lose any sort of offensive momentum they play defense like a dog that just got punched in the nose.

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10-28-2011, 12:45 PM
  #46
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We gave away our 3 best defensive forwards in Richards, Cater and Versteeg (yes Versteeg, he was our 3rd best forward in the defensive zone).


5-4-1, that's better than I expected TBH.

Also, don't forget that 9 of our 14 forwards are 25 or younger. 4 are rookies, one had 2 years experience, three have 3 years and one has 4 years experience. that's a combined 19 years experiecen for what we are counting on to pretty much carry the forward load in all 3 zones.

this team is NOT a cup contender right now. It will take our forwards a good 2-3 years to reach that level and by then our defense will really suck. Don't get your hopes up with this current team. More changes need to be made and experience needs to be gained by the current young players before we have a chance to bring home the cup. Anyone who didn't think that we took significant steps backwards this offseason is just kidding themselves.

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10-28-2011, 01:04 PM
  #47
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I just don't get the cup contender thing. Its 100% possible we don't make the playoffs because this team lacks discipline, focus and experience in some areas. Only thing better is the PP so far. Not as bad as 06-07 but man it seems like it at times. Should be a better team on paper but when you put them together you get a mess.

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Old
10-28-2011, 01:07 PM
  #48
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I just don't get the cup contender thing. Its 100% possible we don't make the playoffs because this team lacks discipline, focus and experience in some areas. Only thing better is the PP so far. Not as bad as 06-07 but man it seems like it at times. Should be a better team on paper but when you put them together you get a mess.
Eh, not really. Even on paper when you take into account defensive statistics this is a worse team. Well...offensive statistics too.

Having a PP is indeed nice though. I like it.

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10-28-2011, 01:16 PM
  #49
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why are we surprised?

trade your captain who's 26 and a 35/40 goal scorer and the team isn't gonna be affected?

still trying to understand the Richards trade

team chemistry is a fragile thing

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Old
10-28-2011, 01:19 PM
  #50
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Eh, not really. Even on paper when you take into account defensive statistics this is a worse team. Well...offensive statistics too.

Having a PP is indeed nice though. I like it.
Disagree. Stats don't tell the full tale when one of our top players was Stefan Ruzicka and he scored 3 goals and added 10 assists

I think we can make the playoffs this year. It will take time for everything to come together but were not nearly as bad as some of the teams like the Senators.

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