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Old
10-28-2011, 07:58 AM
  #1
DrinkFightFlyers
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Can we all just relax for a minute?

It's ten games into the season and they have gotten points in more than half of their games. There are still 72 games left to play. This is a team with a lot of new players on it that will take time to get into a groove. Yes, last night's game was disgusting and the night before wasn't much better. But did you really expect this team to never have a bad game? No one needs to be fired. The team isn't going going to finish in last place. Everyone needs to ease up, at least for a little while. If this continues for an extended period of time, then ok, let's panic. But this team started out 4-0-1, remember? Yes they are 1-4 since then, but that doesn't erase the first five games.

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10-28-2011, 08:04 AM
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Its funny i was just about to make this thread. Like we have half a new team it takes time but seems like no one on here has time to wait they all want us to be 10-0.

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10-28-2011, 08:08 AM
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No. Relaxing is for the rational. I say we go all Vancouver and burn ****.

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10-28-2011, 08:19 AM
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No...don't you understand we have to trade Carle now? He's playing the same as Coburn and Mez, but they throw their bodies around so its OK. Man you dunmb..

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10-28-2011, 08:24 AM
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Normally, DFF and I tend to be on opposite sides of the fence but I couldn't agree with this more.

What this is, is a case of UNREALISTIC EXPECTATIONS! This honestly should have been completely expected. Anyone who thought we were "better" coming into this year was in for a wake up call. We are now an extremely young team, and we have a large age gap between the forwards and the defense.

It's going to take time to grow as a team. We will have periods of looking brilliant, and periods where we look like an AHL team. All of that should serve the young guys. The question is, will those young guys "get it" in time to take advantage of our older D?

I mean just look at our forwards (excluding 4th line types).

We have the veterans that we KNOW what we will get:
Briere
Hartnell
Giroux - I'll include G because despite being 23, he's clearly made that jump already.
Jagr - I'll include him here because he's clearly a vet, but there were also clearly questions about to what degree he'd come back. That said, most expected good play.

Then we have:
Read - 25 - rookie
Schenn - 20 - rookie
Couturier - 18 - rookie
Voracek - 22 - been a solid player but hasn't made "the jump" - new to team
JVR - 22 - been a decent player but hasn't made "the jump" - was sort of handed the proverbial "reigns" to the team along with Giroux
Simmonds - 23 - been a good role player, but not much offensively - new to team

I mean what about this screamd "CAKEWALK" to you all? We are swimming in <= 23 year olds that are new to this team.

My suggestion is that everyone continue to expect this Jekyl and Hyde sort of team. Again, it's the nature of a team this young. I still ultimately expect to be a playoff team. If things go splendidly we could be really good, if things don't we could be really bad.

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10-28-2011, 08:27 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
Normally, DFF and I tend to be on opposite sides of the fence but I couldn't agree with this more.

What this is, is a case of UNREALISTIC EXPECTATIONS! This honestly should have been completely expected. Anyone who thought we were "better" coming into this year was in for a wake up call. We are now an extremely young team, and we have a large age gap between the forwards and the defense.

It's going to take time to grow as a team. We will have periods of looking brilliant, and periods where we look like an AHL team. All of that should serve the young guys. The question is, will those young guys "get it" in time to take advantage of our older D?

I mean just look at our forwards (excluding 4th line types).

We have the veterans that we KNOW what we will get:
Briere
Hartnell
Giroux - I'll include G because despite being 23, he's clearly made that jump already.
Jagr - I'll include him here because he's clearly a vet, but there were also clearly questions about to what degree he'd come back. That said, most expected good play.

Then we have:
Read - 25 - rookie
Schenn - 20 - rookie
Couturier - 18 - rookie
Voracek - 22 - been a solid player but hasn't made "the jump" - new to team
JVR - 22 - been a decent player but hasn't made "the jump" - was sort of handed the proverbial "reigns" to the team along with Giroux
Simmonds - 23 - been a good role player, but not much offensively - new to team

I mean what about this screamd "CAKEWALK" to you all? We are swimming in <= 23 year olds that are new to this team.

My suggestion is that everyone continue to expect this Jekyl and Hyde sort of team. Again, it's the nature of a team this young. I still ultimately expect to be a playoff team. If things go splendidly we could be really good, if things don't we could be really bad.
Can we still burn ****?

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10-28-2011, 08:28 AM
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It's not about the record, it's about the major glaring issues with this team that are going to show even as the players mature and aren't playing awful.

You can't fix this center corps and you can't fix this defense especially as our two good players continue to decline

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Old
10-28-2011, 08:29 AM
  #8
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It's a good thing that Homer at least has a little bit more patience than some of our fans/posters.

Philadelphia is too far away for me. I can riot in Borås instead. It's a Swedish town none of you non-Swedes have heard of probably, but believe me, the world would be a better place if someone burned it down.

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Old
10-28-2011, 08:32 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUHockey9 View Post
Normally, DFF and I tend to be on opposite sides of the fence but I couldn't agree with this more.

What this is, is a case of UNREALISTIC EXPECTATIONS! This honestly should have been completely expected. Anyone who thought we were "better" coming into this year was in for a wake up call. We are now an extremely young team, and we have a large age gap between the forwards and the defense.

It's going to take time to grow as a team. We will have periods of looking brilliant, and periods where we look like an AHL team. All of that should serve the young guys. The question is, will those young guys "get it" in time to take advantage of our older D?

I mean just look at our forwards (excluding 4th line types).

We have the veterans that we KNOW what we will get:
Briere
Hartnell
Giroux - I'll include G because despite being 23, he's clearly made that jump already.
Jagr - I'll include him here because he's clearly a vet, but there were also clearly questions about to what degree he'd come back. That said, most expected good play.

Then we have:
Read - 25 - rookie
Schenn - 20 - rookie
Couturier - 18 - rookie
Voracek - 22 - been a solid player but hasn't made "the jump" - new to team
JVR - 22 - been a decent player but hasn't made "the jump" - was sort of handed the proverbial "reigns" to the team along with Giroux
Simmonds - 23 - been a good role player, but not much offensively - new to team

I mean what about this screamd "CAKEWALK" to you all? We are swimming in <= 23 year olds that are new to this team.

My suggestion is that everyone continue to expect this Jekyl and Hyde sort of team. Again, it's the nature of a team this young. I still ultimately expect to be a playoff team. If things go splendidly we could be really good, if things don't we could be really bad.


Spot on. I personally think in the end, this team will be just as good as last year's with a chance to be better (providing everyone stays healthy). But I don't think we aren't going to see that until about February-March. Obviously it is just as like that they will be awful all year, but ten games into the season (especially when the team is above .500) is not the time to start talking about firing coaches, changing systems, changing goalies, tanking to get the #1 pick, etc.

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Old
10-28-2011, 08:33 AM
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Can we still burn ****?
I thought that was a given?

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10-28-2011, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by BringBackStevens View Post
It's not about the record, it's about the major glaring issues with this team that are going to show even as the players mature and aren't playing awful.

You can't fix this center corps and you can't fix this defense especially as our two good players continue to decline
The defense is a little tricky, but if Couturier and Schenn progress as we hope doesn't that take care of the center issue? I mean, I'm assuming we're not talking about this season now, but a few years ahead. One of Giroux/Brière is most likely going to be moved to wing, maybe even both if the two young pups really excel and we finally bring in a more traditional third line center.

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10-28-2011, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post


Spot on. I personally think in the end, this team will be just as good as last year's with a chance to be better (providing everyone stays healthy). But I don't think we aren't going to see that until about February-March. Obviously it is just as like that they will be awful all year, but ten games into the season (especially when the team is above .500) is not the time to start talking about firing coaches, changing systems, changing goalies, tanking to get the #1 pick, etc.
February-March is when all the young players will be hitting the proverbial wall.

Read, for example, played 48 hockey games last year. Total.

They may be better than last years squad in the years ahead, but this year? Land of fairies and unicorns. Allowing for the fact that last years teams primary problem was how banged up everyone was.

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10-28-2011, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mirimon View Post
The defense is a little tricky, but if Couturier and Schenn progress as we hope doesn't that take care of the center issue? I mean, I'm assuming we're not talking about this season now, but a few years ahead. One of Giroux/Brière is most likely going to be moved to wing, maybe even both if the two young pups really excel and we finally bring in a more traditional third line center.
Couturier looks like he will be very good, but it's going to take a couple before you can really lean on him. Let's hope Schenn is more durable than he's shown thus far.

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10-28-2011, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mirimon View Post
The defense is a little tricky, but if Couturier and Schenn progress as we hope doesn't that take care of the center issue? I mean, I'm assuming we're not talking about this season now, but a few years ahead. One of Giroux/Brière is most likely going to be moved to wing, maybe even both if the two young pups really excel and we finally bring in a more traditional third line center.
The thing is though, I think the Flyers went into this season fully expecting that they could be competitive this year. Who knows, maybe they still can be (I don't see them going far), but it's just so ******* annoying that for the last couple of years, many of us have seen the holes in the lineup as glaring weaknesses, and nothing gets done about them.

Sure, it's great to have Couturier and Schenn in the pipeline for the future, but that doesn't help us with Kimmo and Pronger.

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10-28-2011, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
February-March is when all the young players will be hitting the proverbial wall.

Read, for example, played 48 hockey games last year. Total.

They may be better than last years squad in the years ahead, but this year? Land of fairies and unicorns. Allowing for the fact that last years teams primary problem was how banged up everyone was.
Eh, we'll agree to disagree. Even with the rookies hitting the wall, this team has guys that can step up. None of Read, Schenn, or Couturier are being depended on in such a capacity that the outcome of the game may depend on them. Couturier is playing top line PK minutes now, but if he starts to slow, this team has other players who can step up and play those minutes, maybe not at the same level as Couturier at his highest, but not anything where the PK will suddenly become a guaranteed goal for the other team. Time will tell on this though, I suppose.

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10-28-2011, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mirimon View Post
The defense is a little tricky, but if Couturier and Schenn progress as we hope doesn't that take care of the center issue? I mean, I'm assuming we're not talking about this season now, but a few years ahead. One of Giroux/Brière is most likely going to be moved to wing, maybe even both if the two young pups really excel and we finally bring in a more traditional third line center.
True, saying that the centers CAN'T be fixed was poorly stated. It COULD, however I hate the attitude here that these two being great two way players is a foregone conclusion?

Furthermore, what happens if it takes them 2-3 seasons? This organization and fanbase does not have that kind of patience.

I put it 50/50 that one of those two are shipped out before they get it all together because they can't stand to put up with the quality of play from the team in the meantime

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10-28-2011, 08:52 AM
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Eh, we'll agree to disagree. Even with the rookies hitting the wall, this team has guys that can step up. None of Read, Schenn, or Couturier are being depended on in such a capacity that the outcome of the game may depend on them. Couturier is playing top line PK minutes now, but if he starts to slow, this team has other players who can step up and play those minutes, maybe not at the same level as Couturier at his highest, but not anything where the PK will suddenly become a guaranteed goal for the other team. Time will tell on this though, I suppose.
Read is being depended on hugely right now, are you watching the games? He's killing penalties, on the top PP unit, and taking a regular shift. Couturier has been this teams most dependable forward through the first 10 games. Who on this team is going to step up and effectively take his PK minutes? He's there because we have **** options at forward, in part.

More importantly, the forwards on this team are not even remotely close to being well built for the tight checking of February-March. Right now is when this groups skills are at their best... Not when games start sliding towards 2-1 and 3-2 affairs.

Gelling aside, and Bryz getting his **** together, this team will be weaker come spring than now.

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10-28-2011, 08:54 AM
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Too many people forget that the Flyers were supposed to be hit or miss most of the year. At least if you didn't buy the kool aid that the Flyers (and proverbial "experts" such as Matthew Barnaby) were selling. Not sure how you could trade not only two of your more potent offensive players, but likely the two best defensive forwards, not replace that defense, and reasonably expect the team to be better given how many changes it spawned.

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10-28-2011, 08:55 AM
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True, saying that the centers CAN'T be fixed was poorly stated. It COULD, however I hate the attitude here that these two being great two way players is a foregone conclusion?

Furthermore, what happens if it takes them 2-3 seasons? This organization and fanbase does not have that kind of patience.

I put it 50/50 that one of those two are shipped out before they get it all together because they can't stand to put up with the quality of play from the team in the meantime
Holmgren needs to sit on his hands, and hopefully get one of Suter/Weber this coming offseason in order to bridge the gap. The forwards are not ready to compete, and that's just life.

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10-28-2011, 08:57 AM
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I think Carle needs to be dealt for a defensive defenseman. Being able to move the puck is all well and good, But the flyers have bigger problems in actually defending.

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10-28-2011, 08:58 AM
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Gelling aside, and Bryz getting his **** together, this team will be weaker come spring than now.
How can you declare this as fact? There is no reason to suggest that the flyers wont get their act together come march and play better hockey.

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10-28-2011, 08:59 AM
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I think Carle needs to be dealt for a defensive defenseman. Being able to move the puck is all well and good, But the flyers have bigger problems in actually defending.
It's tough cuz he works well with Pronger, but when Pronger is out the axis of Coburn, Carle, and Mez is really problematic for us.

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10-28-2011, 09:00 AM
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Couturier looks like he will be very good, but it's going to take a couple before you can really lean on him. Let's hope Schenn is more durable than he's shown thus far.
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Originally Posted by chimrichalds18 View Post
The thing is though, I think the Flyers went into this season fully expecting that they could be competitive this year. Who knows, maybe they still can be (I don't see them going far), but it's just so ******* annoying that for the last couple of years, many of us have seen the holes in the lineup as glaring weaknesses, and nothing gets done about them.

Sure, it's great to have Couturier and Schenn in the pipeline for the future, but that doesn't help us with Kimmo and Pronger.
I agree, and we went over this during the summer (a couple of times I believe) how Timonen/Pronger doesn't have that many years left and how our forwards are a few years away from allowing us to really compete. Guess we have to hope for Suter/Weber in the summer.

I don't think we are a contender this year and moost likely we won't be next year either, we should still make the playoffs though. I can see how there could be some cautious optimism though. Bryzgalov is a goalie that can steal games for his team, and the addition of Jagr could turn out to be Homer's best move. I still haven't quite gotten used to seeing him in our colours, but come playoff time having him on the team can really pay dividends. Yes, there is that whole thing about being 40 and having been away from the NHL for three years. But it is Jagr. I have to stop here, I'm sounding like I belong in the Jagr thread...

Having said all this, I didn't like either the Richards or the Carter trade, and I would have gone for Vokoun instead of Bryzgalov. Although, it is probably a good think that I'm not the GM because we probably would have had Jonas Gustavsson and Niitty as our goalies if that were the case.

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10-28-2011, 09:01 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Read is being depended on hugely right now, are you watching the games? He's killing penalties, on the top PP unit, and taking a regular shift. Couturier has been this teams most dependable forward through the first 10 games. Who on this team is going to step up and effectively take his PK minutes? He's there because we have **** options at forward, in part.

More importantly, the forwards on this team are not even remotely close to being well built for the tight checking of February-March. Right now is when this groups skills are at their best... Not when games start sliding towards 2-1 and 3-2 affairs.

Gelling aside, and Bryz getting his **** together, this team will be weaker come spring than now.
Read playing on the PP is not really "depending" on him. The top PP will change a ton between now and the end of the season, regardless of whether there are rookies on there or not. And Couturier is playing very well right now, but again, throughout the season, this will change regardless of whether or not the player is a rookie. As far as who will step up, this I'm not sure of. Nodl could take some heat off of Couturier on the PK, for sure. He won't be the top PK but he's no slouch short handed. As far as offensive production, there are plenty of guys who could step (Voracek, Simmonds, and the dreaded Scott Hartnell come to mind). This is by no means a given, but it also isn't a given that Read, Schenn, and Couturier will all hit the wall at the same time and bring the team down. Time's gonna have to tell here.

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10-28-2011, 09:04 AM
  #25
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It's tough cuz he works well with Pronger, but when Pronger is out the axis of Coburn, Carle, and Mez is really problematic for us.
Agreed. I have nothing against Carle, He can move the puck and he is effective at doing it. But he really is soft in his own end and causes the flyers no end of problems when he is relied upon. At least Coburn and Mez have showed at some points in the career that they can step up the defensive game and look good out there.

Mez last year, Coburn against Ovechkin and in the play-offs.

We really need a solid shutdown guy back there, and i'm not really sure who we could possibly target. I would love a Staal, Schenn type D back there.

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