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Will Any of these Nationalities ever Draft Higher?

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Old
10-27-2011, 05:41 PM
  #76
Dustin Peener
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For Christ sake, to end the debate:

Nielson is listed as "U.K." because he is a dual national Canadian who came over here to play in the Elite League and got citizenship, the same as every other dual national UK player on elite prospects. Everyone else is listed as the part of the UK they are from - e.g. Hand and Shields are Scottish. Nobody English, Welsh, or Northern Irish has ever been drafted.

The only national team in hockey is Great Britain.

The criteria I would use to determine someone's nationality is the same as we use class a "British trained" player, which is if they played at least 2 years of juniors in the country.

Wolski as far as I know, did not play 2 years of hockey in Poland, so is therefore a Canadian using that theory. It also means guys like Owen Nolan are Canadian, because he never played hockey in Ireland.

Edited to add: an interesting case is Liam Stewart, son of rock star Rod Stewart and model Rachel Hunter, both of whom are English. He plays for Spokane Chiefs in the WHL, and there was an appeal to the IIHF to ask if he would be allowed to play for GB U18's in the World Championships. There was a lot of debate over whether he should be classed as British or not since both parents are fully English and he was born here, but has never played hockey here


Last edited by Dustin Peener: 10-27-2011 at 05:54 PM.
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Old
10-27-2011, 07:15 PM
  #77
S E P H
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Welshy3413 View Post
For Christ sake, to end the debate:

Nielson is listed as "U.K." because he is a dual national Canadian who came over here to play in the Elite League and got citizenship, the same as every other dual national UK player on elite prospects. Everyone else is listed as the part of the UK they are from - e.g. Hand and Shields are Scottish. Nobody English, Welsh, or Northern Irish has ever been drafted.

The only national team in hockey is Great Britain.

The criteria I would use to determine someone's nationality is the same as we use class a "British trained" player, which is if they played at least 2 years of juniors in the country.

Wolski as far as I know, did not play 2 years of hockey in Poland, so is therefore a Canadian using that theory. It also means guys like Owen Nolan are Canadian, because he never played hockey in Ireland.

Edited to add: an interesting case is Liam Stewart, son of rock star Rod Stewart and model Rachel Hunter, both of whom are English. He plays for Spokane Chiefs in the WHL, and there was an appeal to the IIHF to ask if he would be allowed to play for GB U18's in the World Championships. There was a lot of debate over whether he should be classed as British or not since both parents are fully English and he was born here, but has never played hockey here
Problem is, he openly said that if Poland was the higher division, he would play for them.

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Old
10-27-2011, 08:00 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
Northern Ireland is not part of Britain, but does form part of Great Britain sports teams.
Except in hockey, where the whole island of Ireland is represented on the Irish team, both the Republic and the North.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
Problem is, he openly said that if Poland was the higher division, he would play for them.
He can say that all he wants, but until he plays at least 2 years in Poland, it isn't happening according to the IIHF rules.

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Old
10-27-2011, 08:10 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
Higher means having #1 again. Otherwise, what was the point in including them in the original post?
That is not what "higher" means.

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Old
10-27-2011, 10:58 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Immanuel View Post
I don't think anyone cares about south africa and lebanon...

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Old
10-28-2011, 02:33 AM
  #81
Le Rosbeef
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Welshy3413 View Post
For Christ sake, to end the debate:

Nielson is listed as "U.K." because he is a dual national Canadian who came over here to play in the Elite League and got citizenship, the same as every other dual national UK player on elite prospects. Everyone else is listed as the part of the UK they are from - e.g. Hand and Shields are Scottish. Nobody English, Welsh, or Northern Irish has ever been drafted.

The only national team in hockey is Great Britain.

The criteria I would use to determine someone's nationality is the same as we use class a "British trained" player, which is if they played at least 2 years of juniors in the country.

Wolski as far as I know, did not play 2 years of hockey in Poland, so is therefore a Canadian using that theory. It also means guys like Owen Nolan are Canadian, because he never played hockey in Ireland.

Edited to add: an interesting case is Liam Stewart, son of rock star Rod Stewart and model Rachel Hunter, both of whom are English. He plays for Spokane Chiefs in the WHL, and there was an appeal to the IIHF to ask if he would be allowed to play for GB U18's in the World Championships. There was a lot of debate over whether he should be classed as British or not since both parents are fully English and he was born here, but has never played hockey here
Owen Nolan was born in Belfast - which is technically the UK - but yes, I get your point - I'm not sure we can chalk up 7 months or so as a baby to developing his hockey much.

Thank goodness for your common sense though - I went away from this thread and came back to such a weird debate about something which is plain fact. So odd - like trying to argue blue is actually orange or something.

Great Britain - England, Scotland, Wales
United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

We are a bit guilty of sometimes referring to "Britain" as the UK... but that is erroneous as it technically makes no reference to NI. Some people in Northern Ireland will take kindly to being called British, and others won't. I don't recommend trying it...

That said, back on hockey, I do believe one will get drafted again at some point but as a previous poster said, it's not likely going to be an 18 year old drafted directly from the UK. The standard isn't high enough...

And finally:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Granlund2Pulkkinen View Post
Scotland fields its own international teams.

But thanks for your continuous condescending posts in true British fashion
What on Earth are you talking about? If you're Scottish living in Denver, you should know better about the unitary state that you come from. If you're not even British and are using someone else's corrupted information to criticise me, I direct you to countless articles on the web to help you understand. Google is your friend and will confirm what I'm talking about.

Suggesting I'm condescending him continuously is just bizarre. If anyone has just fallen into a trap, it's you by using National Stereotyping to evaluate my post. I have no problems with other people's opinions. But where there are facts involved, you're damn right I'm going to correct them if they're wrong and I happen to see it...

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Old
10-28-2011, 05:52 AM
  #82
NashLife
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Norway for sure

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Old
10-28-2011, 06:11 AM
  #83
shello
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Can't see South Korea getting drafted any higher but anything is possible.

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Old
10-28-2011, 06:35 AM
  #84
icing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Welshy3413 View Post
Edited to add: an interesting case is Liam Stewart, son of rock star Rod Stewart and model Rachel Hunter, both of whom are English. He plays for Spokane Chiefs in the WHL, and there was an appeal to the IIHF to ask if he would be allowed to play for GB U18's in the World Championships. There was a lot of debate over whether he should be classed as British or not since both parents are fully English and he was born here, but has never played hockey here
Seriously, that is a bit strange. Why wouldnt he be able to play for Britain? Take Ulf Samuelssons sons for example (Henrik and Philip), both have swedish parents but were born and raised in USA. They are swedish citizens as much as they are american, and had the choice of playing for Sweden or USA and never have had played any hockey in Sweden before. Philip actually has played for both countries, no debate there.

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Old
10-28-2011, 06:48 AM
  #85
Dustin Peener
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icing View Post
Seriously, that is a bit strange. Why wouldnt he be able to play for Britain? Take Ulf Samuelssons sons for example (Henrik and Philip), both have swedish parents but were born and raised in USA. They are swedish citizens as much as they are american, and had the choice of playing for Sweden or USA and never have had played any hockey in Sweden before. Philip actually has played for both countries, no debate there.
I think the IIHF did say yes, but the argument was would he have been allowed if he was just an average Joe who moved to the states with his parents, not the son of celebrities. But IMO it's no different to Canadian guys who come over to play in our league and then get citizenship and being allowed to play for the national team. The problem was the fact he has never played hockey here

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Old
10-28-2011, 06:58 AM
  #86
icing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Welshy3413 View Post
I think the IIHF did say yes, but the argument was would he have been allowed if he was just an average Joe who moved to the states with his parents, not the son of celebrities.
Ok, still a bit odd. An average Joe should be able to move to another country without IIHF putting their nose in deciding his nationality. Considering how many Canadians that plays under "european flag" in Europe because of some "late grandfathers cousin who had a friend in Italy"-situation.

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Old
10-28-2011, 02:15 PM
  #87
kaiser matias
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Originally Posted by icing View Post
Ok, still a bit odd. An average Joe should be able to move to another country without IIHF putting their nose in deciding his nationality. Considering how many Canadians that plays under "european flag" in Europe because of some "late grandfathers cousin who had a friend in Italy"-situation.
The IIHF decides nationality based on the passport of the player, and where they have played hockey. To qualify for a national team a player has to be a citizen of that country and played at least 2 years there.

For the Canadians playing in Europe, the fact that they had a grandparent born in Italy or something has no bearing on it. These guys qualified as Italian or whatever under the IIHF's rules because they got an Italian passport and played the 2 years in Italy. For the guys who had already played for Canada in a tournament, they have to play 4 years in their new country.

The only part where having ancestry helps would be in obtaining citizenship of your new country. Some countries (Italy, Germany, Poland for example) have rather simply laws on it: if you are descended from a citizen, you can claim citizenship. For other guys who had no connection with that country before, the national hockey federations often can help them bend the rules and get them citizenship before they would normally be allowed to, just so they can play for their new countries.

The IIHF rules on nationality are one of the strictest in the sporting world. I applaud it because they want to keep players who developed and played in one country playing for that country, and not having guys jump countries for money. That way hockey doesn't have the same problems that occur in track, where Arabian oil sheiks buy African runners for their countries just to do well in the Olympics. It also allows smaller countries to develop their players, as it benefits a country like Slovenia to have Kopitar stay around and play with the Slovenian team rather than have him jump to Sweden or the US for example.

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Old
10-28-2011, 03:07 PM
  #88
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To respond to the 2nd page: yes, I consider Sorensen to be Danish enough for this post. Born there, only move to Sweden for hockey if I remember correctly.

As for the poster who made the <Cool Runnings> reference about a Jamaican kid from a Jamaican family, born there but moving to Canada maybe getting drafted... well something similar might just happen this year. The late rounds have the potential to produce the first Congolese NHL draft pick, as big winger Ludo Kabambi is starting to step in up in the Q. Born in Kinshasa, moved to Quebec at a young age.

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Old
10-28-2011, 03:25 PM
  #89
untouchable21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icing View Post
Seriously, that is a bit strange. Why wouldnt he be able to play for Britain? Take Ulf Samuelssons sons for example (Henrik and Philip), both have swedish parents but were born and raised in USA. They are swedish citizens as much as they are american, and had the choice of playing for Sweden or USA and never have had played any hockey in Sweden before. Philip actually has played for both countries, no debate there.
You make some good points.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Alex Steen played for Team Sweden before?

He did play one season for Frolunda in the SEL the season before being drafted, so you cannot really say he was trained in Sweden seeing as he was born and grew up in Winnipeg, but for all intents and purposes, Alex Steen is Swedish, not Canadian.

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Old
10-28-2011, 03:29 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by untouchable21 View Post
He did play one season for Frolunda in the SEL the season before being drafted, so you cannot really say he was trained in Sweden seeing as he was born and grew up in Winnipeg, but for all intents and purposes, Alex Steen is Swedish, not Canadian.
Check again.

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=460

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