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Trade Rumors and Proposal Thread XVIII

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Old
10-28-2011, 06:18 PM
  #101
kyle747
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As soon as Kuba is traded, Lee will be back in the lineup.

I still like Lee.

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10-28-2011, 06:18 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by guyzeur View Post
Which defenseman has more value to other GMs: Lee or Carkner?

Carkner? Tough, somewhat physical and a great vet to have in a team, Perfect bottom 6

Lee? Average Shutdown D, trying to be physical with still some potential to improve as a top 4.

Your thoughts
I don't think Brian Lee really has any value because probably all 30 NHL teams have a D man that can do at least what Lee does. Maybe trade a 4th for him, but if we got Filatov for a 3rd, gotta think Lee is worth probably not much when most teams have least 1 guy in the system who can fill in.

So Carkner wins, at least he can fight, push and shove and kill Penalties and he has a presence to him on the ice that Lee doesn't have

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10-28-2011, 06:37 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Tuna99 View Post
I don't think Brian Lee really has any value because probably all 30 NHL teams have a D man that can do at least what Lee does. Maybe trade a 4th for him, but if we got Filatov for a 3rd, gotta think Lee is worth probably not much when most teams have least 1 guy in the system who can fill in.

So Carkner wins, at least he can fight, push and shove and kill Penalties and he has a presence to him on the ice that Lee doesn't have

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Old
10-28-2011, 06:46 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by kyle747 View Post
As soon as Kuba is traded, Lee will be back in the lineup.

I still like Lee.
That's great that you like Lee, but why on earth would Murray trade a guy who has been fantastic to this point in the season? So a much lesser player can come in and and play a position (the left side) that he fails at time and time again?

Honestly, unless Ottawa is out of the playoff race come trade deadline time, Kuba isn't going anywhere. I know 3rd round picks are as good as guys like Kessler around here but it isn't going to happen.

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10-28-2011, 06:48 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
Lee probably, he has shown he can play in the top four. I am not yet convinced he is the guy the Sens will move though, I still think Kuba is probably at the top of Murray's list.

Carkner will end up being the 7th guy, I really don't see him fitting in on a regular basis. Most teams aren't even deploying a heavyweight now.
Disagree with that completely. Carkner fills a role, Lee fills a gap. GM's get players they need, guys like Lee are a dime a dozen.

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10-28-2011, 06:50 PM
  #106
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You honestly want Filatov and Turris on the same team?

Might as well add some locker room cancer at the same time... Joe Corvo again?

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10-28-2011, 07:01 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Beville View Post
You honestly want Filatov and Turris on the same team?

Might as well add some locker room cancer at the same time... Joe Corvo again?
Filatov will be in Russia by Christmas, no need to worry.

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10-28-2011, 07:18 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Holdurbreathe View Post
Zbad isn't being moved to the wing, anyone that watched that experiment knows the Sens will leave him develop and play as a center.
he played as wing in the u18 and played quite well with ppl in his age group

lets wait and see

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Old
10-28-2011, 07:22 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Beville View Post
You honestly want Filatov and Turris on the same team?

Might as well add some locker room cancer at the same time... Joe Corvo again?
Just out of curiosity, where does this come from? I've only heard or read of good things said by teammates about Joe, especially good things were said about him during our cup run. Is it because he asked for a trade? Or he gave booze to the homeless?

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10-28-2011, 07:24 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by 'JESUS' Joe-Corvo View Post
Just out of curiosity, where does this come from? I've only heard or read of good things said by teammates about Joe, especially good things were said about him during our cup run. Is it because he asked for a trade? Or he gave booze to the homeless?
I'll be honest, I don't know... I was always a fan of the guy... I just read on here that he was a locker room cancer (among others, names I can't quite remember)

Just using him as an example...

But Tuna99, I bloody hope he is. He's been awful for the Senators, especially compared to what he should've been... How's he doing in the A though?

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Old
10-28-2011, 07:28 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by 'JESUS' Joe-Corvo View Post
Just out of curiosity, where does this come from? I've only heard or read of good things said by teammates about Joe, especially good things were said about him during our cup run. Is it because he asked for a trade? Or he gave booze to the homeless?
Could be because he beats up women in bars while drunk.

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10-28-2011, 07:41 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Billy Madison View Post
That's great that you like Lee, but why on earth would Murray trade a guy who has been fantastic to this point in the season? So a much lesser player can come in and and play a position (the left side) that he fails at time and time again?

Honestly, unless Ottawa is out of the playoff race come trade deadline time, Kuba isn't going anywhere. I know 3rd round picks are as good as guys like Kessler around here but it isn't going to happen.
DERP!!! Maybe because its a rebuild and his contract is over at the end of this season and he will not be resigned.

This should be obvious.

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10-28-2011, 07:51 PM
  #113
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DERP!!! Maybe because its a rebuild and his contract is over at the end of this season and he will not be resigned.

This should be obvious.
Yes, teams that are in a playoff position trade top 4 d men all the time. Tough to believe you are actually the one who said "derp" and implied that my comment was ignorant on some level.

Like I said before, I know people such as yourself believe a 3rd round pick is better than actually winning games and pushing for the playoffs (whether they make it or not) but in real life, not HF land, it actually doesn't work the way you wish it did.

And just as an fyi, a rebuild involves more than just stocking up with prospects. If it was as simple as you make it seem then teams lie Columbus, NYI, Florida, St.Louis, and Winnipeg would be in the playoffs and contending every single year.

Anyways, you should probably take your game off pause, the new look Ottawa Senators are not going to be the NHL all-stars by themself.

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Old
10-28-2011, 08:00 PM
  #114
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DERP!!! Maybe because its a rebuild and his contract is over at the end of this season and he will not be resigned.

This should be obvious.
We still need quality d-men regardless of whether not it is a rebuild and if the Sens are in a playoff race around the trade deadline Kuba isnt going anywhere.

With that said I dont think we will be

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Old
10-28-2011, 08:05 PM
  #115
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We still need quality d-men regardless of whether not it is a rebuild and if the Sens are in a playoff race around the trade deadline Kuba isnt going anywhere.

With that said I dont think we will be
This. Even if they are in the race they shouldn't be trading anyone unless it's such an over payment they can't say no.

The prospect cupboard in Ottawa is full now, they already have 8 picks in this upcoming draft (an extra 3rd already, about what they asking price would be for Kuba), only so many prospects you can have in the system. There isn't even enough room in Bingo for them all right now.

Then there is UFA signings out of college if there are needs they think they need to fill in the organization.

Whether they are in the playoff race or not at the deadline remains to be seen, so you can obviously have an opinion on whether they think they will be or not, but as of right now they are in a playoff position and playing well... trading Kuba makes no sense, trading anyone other than Lee (who will more than likely be on waivers when Carkner comes back) would be insane.

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Old
10-28-2011, 10:09 PM
  #116
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he played as wing in the u18 and played quite well with ppl in his age group

lets wait and see
No point waiting it won't be happening.

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Old
10-28-2011, 10:19 PM
  #117
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Could be because he beats up women in bars while drunk.
Hahahahaha, I didn't think anyone here would know that story...

Seriously though, he made a mistake. Now he's a family man loved by his teammates. I follow his career closely so I was just curious if there was something that happened I didnt know about. I remember when he scored the OT goal in the Buffalo series in 07 that basically sealed it, a few of his teammates in their post game interviews were going on about how much he deserved that goal and how good of a teammate he was.

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Old
10-28-2011, 10:21 PM
  #118
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I'll be honest, I don't know... I was always a fan of the guy... I just read on here that he was a locker room cancer (among others, names I can't quite remember)

Just using him as an example...

But Tuna99, I bloody hope he is. He's been awful for the Senators, especially compared to what he should've been... How's he doing in the A though?
Well ha was hated by big fat Garrioch, that's for sure...

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Old
10-28-2011, 10:33 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by HSF View Post
he played as wing in the u18 and played quite well with ppl in his age group

lets wait and see
Thats a bit irrelevant, like saying he played well as a goalie in minor hockey so we should give that a shot if our goalie problems get bad. U18 is just that, the best under 18 in the world, the NHL is the best in the world, period. You really cant compare the two. We have lots of wingers chomping at the bit to get ice time, why not let everyone play their best positions?

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10-28-2011, 10:49 PM
  #120
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Yes, teams that are in a playoff position trade top 4 d men all the time. Tough to believe you are actually the one who said "derp" and implied that my comment was ignorant on some level.

Like I said before, I know people such as yourself believe a 3rd round pick is better than actually winning games and pushing for the playoffs (whether they make it or not) but in real life, not HF land, it actually doesn't work the way you wish it did.

And just as an fyi, a rebuild involves more than just stocking up with prospects. If it was as simple as you make it seem then teams lie Columbus, NYI, Florida, St.Louis, and Winnipeg would be in the playoffs and contending every single year.

Anyways, you should probably take your game off pause, the new look Ottawa Senators are not going to be the NHL all-stars by themself.
Really, Winnipeg/Altanta, Columbus and Florida have been pretty activity in the trade maket and it could be easily said these teams haven't been stockpiling much.

The Islanders and Oilers have been stockpiling prospects, like Chicago and Pittsburgh did before them, and it appears they are ready to make a move up.

However you are right, there is more to a rebuild than prospects, but holding on to a veteran defencemen in his UFA year in hopes of making the playoffs is pure folly. This is the first year of the rebuild, developing and drafting is crucial, so is trading existing assets to fill holes in the depth chart.

If an opportunity presents itself, the Sens would trade Kuba or Gonchar if the return strengthened the team for the future. While I agree with you that winning is important, what has to be balanced is how much of an impact to winning and losing is playing Lee over Kuba for example. Then of course considered the asset being offered in return.

I for one, am not a fan of waiting until the trade deadline to make moves. IMO GMs are more willing to give up more to save a season, than to add depth for a playoff run. Several teams are desperate right now for help on defence, the return for a player like Kuba will never be higher IMO.

Should Murray wait until March, he risks injury, dropoff in performance, potentially losing an asset for nothing as a UFA.

In a rebuild, GMs must be aggressive, make the best moves possible for the future even if it means sacrificing a few wins in the short term.

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Old
10-29-2011, 07:54 AM
  #121
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Filatov will be in Russia by Christmas, no need to worry.
The team appears commited to developing him into an NHL player and his acceptance of the demotion signifies that he's willing to learn.

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Originally Posted by Beville View Post
But Tuna99, I bloody hope he is. He's been awful for the Senators, especially compared to what he should've been... How's he doing in the A though?
Filatov is 21 and has only played a handful of games for us. It would be a mistake to give up on him after such a small amount of games.

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Old
10-29-2011, 09:20 AM
  #122
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Really, Winnipeg/Altanta, Columbus and Florida have been pretty activity in the trade maket and it could be easily said these teams haven't been stockpiling much.

The Islanders and Oilers have been stockpiling prospects, like Chicago and Pittsburgh did before them, and it appears they are ready to make a move up.

However you are right, there is more to a rebuild than prospects, but holding on to a veteran defencemen in his UFA year in hopes of making the playoffs is pure folly. This is the first year of the rebuild, developing and drafting is crucial, so is trading existing assets to fill holes in the depth chart.

If an opportunity presents itself, the Sens would trade Kuba or Gonchar if the return strengthened the team for the future. While I agree with you that winning is important, what has to be balanced is how much of an impact to winning and losing is playing Lee over Kuba for example. Then of course considered the asset being offered in return.

I for one, am not a fan of waiting until the trade deadline to make moves. IMO GMs are more willing to give up more to save a season, than to add depth for a playoff run. Several teams are desperate right now for help on defence, the return for a player like Kuba will never be higher IMO.

Should Murray wait until March, he risks injury, dropoff in performance, potentially losing an asset for nothing as a UFA.

In a rebuild, GMs must be aggressive, make the best moves possible for the future even if it means sacrificing a few wins in the short term.
What kind of trade would that be? While I am in agreement if the right trade came along I don't buy that a 3rd or 4th round pick, hell even a 2nd round pick if worth sacraficing part of the present season just so they can take a shot on an extra prospect, especially considering they already have an extra 3rd from the Fisher deal along with all of their current picks.

Learning to win is part of a rebuild, building that atmosphere and that comes from the top down. You would be hard pressed to find a player in the NHL that would agree with giving up on the season while in a playoff position or just outside of one. Those guys want to make the playoffs and that will do more for a young team than an extra 3rd round pick ever could.

As for the organizations I mentioned, Pitts drafting all those guys 1st and 2nd overall would not look even remotly the same if they didn't with the lotto (literally) with Crosby. People forget that, they did nothing to earn (or not earn) that pick. Down right dumb luck. Chicago had prospects in the system already before they they one the draft lotto and got to draft Kane. Toews was a nice pick. There are more cases of teams that are perenial losers and keep losing vs team that bottom out and rebuild. Winning is winning and for the most part the same teams are always there, at least a group of them.

As for Lee vs Kuba, it isn't close. Kuba makes Ottawa a way better team than Lee ever could. Kuba has been a top 4 D man in the NHL for 10 plus years, aside from last year he has had a really good career.

If and when Murray makes a move it will be based on the current situation of the team that plays each night. If people think that losing is going to help the organization, it won't. Losing doesn't do anything but produce more losing and selfish attitudes. a rebuild is one thing, building a winner is another and it started last year when they got Anderson. You always try and win, Murray is part of that.

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Old
10-29-2011, 09:41 AM
  #123
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Yes, teams that are in a playoff position trade top 4 d men all the time. Tough to believe you are actually the one who said "derp" and implied that my comment was ignorant on some level.

Like I said before, I know people such as yourself believe a 3rd round pick is better than actually winning games and pushing for the playoffs (whether they make it or not) but in real life, not HF land, it actually doesn't work the way you wish it did.

And just as an fyi, a rebuild involves more than just stocking up with prospects. If it was as simple as you make it seem then teams lie Columbus, NYI, Florida, St.Louis, and Winnipeg would be in the playoffs and contending every single year.

Anyways, you should probably take your game off pause, the new look Ottawa Senators are not going to be the NHL all-stars by themself.
Yeah and Kuba is really going to help them develop, give me a break. We are still saddled with Phillips and Gonchar, there is no way Murray doesn't move Kuba if there is a market. There are 60 games before the deadline for Kuba to "mentor the new players". It also seems you are forgetting Karlsson is in his 3rd year now. He is not new to the game anymore.

Your saying Murray should push for the playoffs which is one of the stupidest things he could do. Someone is a little to caught up in our 4 game winning streak.

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10-29-2011, 10:53 AM
  #124
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10-29-2011, 10:56 AM
  #125
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