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Old
10-27-2011, 04:13 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by AJBergy86 View Post
I think Turris is a bust. The guy has not really shown anything special or being worthy of his high draft position. I also would not want to move the required pieces to acquire him nor pay him the money he is looking for.
For some reason I see him in Switzerland in 2 years

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10-27-2011, 04:19 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Mikos87 View Post
Filatov who was the 6th overall pick in '08 had his misgivings with Columbus, going back to Russia, whining about his playing time, not being happy with the AHL stints. He got a 3 round pick in return with Scott Howson (a Sather protege) cutting his losses.

Turris is in a very similar situation to Filatov, except he doesn't have the Russian factor about him. Both he and Filatov were mismanaged but there's no point in arguing semantics there.

...

The 3rd round pick is there since Kundratek isn't an NHL player. Filatov only got a third in return.
The difference with Filatov being Russian isn't his ethnicity. It's the geographical and cultural comfort of having the KHL as a viable alternate to the NHL that lowered Filatov's trade value.

Turris doesn't share that same trade value lowering alternative option to the NHL.

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Old
10-27-2011, 04:19 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
The asking price for Turris would be a) Stepan, b) Anisimov or c) Kreider.

Still interested?
lol no. it. would. not.

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Old
10-27-2011, 04:21 PM
  #79
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edit: double post


Last edited by DrSutton*: 10-27-2011 at 05:11 PM.
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10-27-2011, 04:25 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by jexmex View Post
He's bluffing. he wants to get him signed for cheap, and at least up his value even if only slightly.
Seriously?! We are in October. This is WAY past the bluffing stage. Especially since Turris' agent today said it's NOT about the money.

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10-27-2011, 05:01 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
None of those guys were top-3 picks.

Do we want Turris to just "make it in the NHL" as you stated, or do we want him to be a dominant, franchise player like other skill forwards taken 3rd overall, like Savard and Toews and Sedin and Duchesne and Gaborik?

Read your history. Outside of Olli Jokinen -- who took three teams and almost 7 years to develop into a star--top picks like Turris who don't impact within two or three years of getting drafted usually become role players.

Turris is a bust because of where he was drafted and the pisspoor stats since then.
You can wait for him to develop. I've moved along, thank you
I had no idea that the fact being taken 4-10 spots outside of the top 3 gave you an exponentially larger window to develop your game. Thanks for enlightening me.

Jack Johnson took 5 years before he made a significant impact at the NHL level. He's certainly not a role player. Andrew Ladd was drafted 4th overall in 2004, and until last year he had done very little at the NHL level.

Why are you so concerned with what his ceiling is based on his draft position anyway? If we get a 30 goal scorer out of it, who really cares what his history is with another team?

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10-27-2011, 06:09 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I had no idea that the fact being taken 4-10 spots outside of the top 3 gave you an exponentially larger window to develop your game. Thanks for enlightening me.

Jack Johnson took 5 years before he made a significant impact at the NHL level. He's certainly not a role player. Andrew Ladd was drafted 4th overall in 2004, and until last year he had done very little at the NHL level.

Why are you so concerned with what his ceiling is based on his draft position anyway? If we get a 30 goal scorer out of it, who really cares what his history is with another team?
First of all, let's stick to skill forwards in this discussion, because that's what Turris is.

Second, what has Turris done in his 4-plus years since being drafted that would make anybody think (outside of his folks) that he can be a 30-goal scorer in the NHL?

He's the rule, not the exception. Highly touted offensive-minded forwards who have been surpassed by similar players from their own draft year and thereafter should be treated with caution.

For now, he's a bust.

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10-27-2011, 06:25 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by MorrisWanchuk View Post
they would likely want a D prospect in return. no dice.

also, players that welch on their contacts and signing into the season...... not sure they're good team guys.
maybe Valentenko. i doubt he gets a shot with the Rangers. I think Parlett will pass him soon.


Turris for VTank Kundratiek and EC maybe look at the Derek Morris deal. Rangers got him at a bargain then i thought.

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10-28-2011, 01:09 AM
  #84
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Definitely go after Turris. It's a no brainer. Get this kid on the cheap.

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10-28-2011, 01:16 AM
  #85
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I'd think Avery and Redden would be enough to get this guy from Phoenix.

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10-28-2011, 01:26 AM
  #86
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I'd think Avery and Redden would be enough to get this guy from Phoenix.
Yes. definitely.

I think Valentenko + 3rd can get this kid.

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Old
10-28-2011, 09:10 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by DrSutton View Post
Seriously?! We are in October. This is WAY past the bluffing stage. Especially since Turris' agent today said it's NOT about the money.
So I guess that means he just wants to make the world dance.

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10-28-2011, 10:56 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by German Way of War View Post
First of all, let's stick to skill forwards in this discussion, because that's what Turris is.

Second, what has Turris done in his 4-plus years since being drafted that would make anybody think (outside of his folks) that he can be a 30-goal scorer in the NHL?

He's the rule, not the exception. Highly touted offensive-minded forwards who have been surpassed by similar players from their own draft year and thereafter should be treated with caution.

For now, he's a bust.
Sorry, you lost me at "Let's eliminate anything that could possibly be used to discredit whatever point I'm desperately trying to make."

Agree to disagree.

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Old
10-29-2011, 09:22 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Sorry, you lost me at "Let's eliminate anything that could possibly be used to discredit whatever point I'm desperately trying to make."

Agree to disagree.
Look at the examples I made in my original post. I was clearly talking about skill forwards.

Ever hear the axiom, "it takes defensemen longer to develop"?

Besides, for every Andrew Ladd or Olli Jokinen or Stu Barnes who start slow and take a while to develop and bounce from team to team, there are 20 Jason Bonsignores and Chad Kilgers and Fat Balloons and Alex Daigles who start slow and never ever do jack.

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Old
10-29-2011, 09:34 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
If Turris can reach his potential, he's a first line forward that can probably pot 30-35 goals and 70-80 points. Most organizations could use a kid with that kind of upside.

However, I don't see a spot for him in the lineup as it stands now, and Tortorella isn't going to hand him ice time, so I doubt it would work out.
While an honest and technically correct answer, let us remember this is best case scenario.

Tell Maloney we'll take this headache off his hands for cheap as a proect and MAYBE, after the fact is proven, if this guy shows enough, we can throw him something more.

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Old
10-29-2011, 09:46 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Mikos87 View Post
Looking at what Filatov drew in, and what Don Maloney and Sather's history together has shown us. I would trade

Kundratek
'12 3rd round pick

for

Turris

Filatov who was the 6th overall pick in '08 had his misgivings with Columbus, going back to Russia, whining about his playing time, not being happy with the AHL stints. He got a 3 round pick in return with Scott Howson (a Sather protege) cutting his losses.

Turris is in a very similar situation to Filatov, except he doesn't have the Russian factor about him. Both he and Filatov were mismanaged but there's no point in arguing semantics there.

Don Maloney (like Howson another Sather protege), likes his Czech defenseman, trading for both Rosival and Klesla just last season. Much like the trade for Wolski, and Zherdev (traded by Howson for Tyutin) we are in a situation where a small market team with a disgruntled skilled player is availble and their GMs have a history with ours. Sather has shown a penchant for making these deals, trading a top 4 capable defenseman for a skilled player hoping to breakout here, only to have disappointing results. Could third time be the charm?

Turris isn't European and unlike Wolski, he has never played (or earned) top six minutes. I would have no problems with Turris being the 4th line shootout specialist, and the skilled utility player that Torts likes to use over Wolski and Christensen.

Some AHL time wouldn't hurt where Turris can work on his conditioning and learn the system, he doesn't have to clear waivers yet.

We are also seeing this team take a very North American and Swedish turn in our system. Trading away Grachev and Horak this past off season, so seeing Kundrateck go wouldn't come as a surprise. He is a solid pro defensman and the Rangers have shown that they can develop NHL players under Sather's regime, with the likes of Grachev, Weise, Potter, and Horak as NHL rookies this year on other teams. Not to mention the bunch that is on the NYR roster.

The 2008 draft was a good one for us with Del Zotto, Stephan on the big squad, and Wiese and Grachev playing NHL minutes. I think Kundratek can play in the NHL as well with his size, mobility, toughness and defensive acumen. He's not a world beater by any cmeans, but Gernander and co have graduated many defensmen through their ranks in recent years and I think the Kundratek is no different.

The 3rd round pick is there since Kundratek isn't an NHL player. Filatov only got a third in return.
If the deal is only for Turris, not a bigger package, I say:
Down payment: Dave Kveton + Chad Kolarik + Sean Avery (salary dump)

then add your suggestion of Kundratek and a pick based upon what he delivers.

I'd make the pick a '13 4th rounder upgradeable to a 14 3rd round pick.

That's not what they want, but we can't take excessive risks.
Let somebody else overpay for a headache on the CHANCE we can make a go of him.

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