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Old
10-29-2011, 12:35 AM
  #51
Quattro
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Originally Posted by BringTheReign View Post
I know it's the smart move for the team as far was waiver rules go, but it has to hurt VV seeing kids younger than him stepping in and playing right away.
who exactly are you referring to?

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10-29-2011, 12:56 AM
  #52
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who exactly are you referring to?
think he means players from other teams.

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10-29-2011, 02:22 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Sybil227 View Post
You don't make a trade just so you have space for a young defenceman - unless he's the 2nd coming of Bobby Orr (and he isn't).
That being said - would you trade Martinez for Kyle Turris? And could you fit Turris under the cap?
You do make a trade though for a forward you need at some point when you know you have a D-man on your depth chart you can easily call up. Nobody is going to jump the gun here but if there's a proper trade offer at some point before the deadline Lombardi might make a move.

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10-29-2011, 08:09 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Live in the Now View Post
Yes, he is. He was paired with Willie Mitchell. Doughty is usually paired with Willie Mitchell. Therefore he is being sent down in favor of Drew Doughty. Voynov was never paired with another Kings defenseman so the team was unable to evaluate him in that regard. If somebody else is injured and Voynov fills that player's spot well, then something must be done to ensure Voynov is with the team at all times.

Now if the team chooses to juggle pairings and find someone else that works marvelously with Doughty, they will trade somebody in favor of Voynov being paired with Mitchell.
No, I think that thought process is flawed. Coach was the one who put him with Mitchell and he is not the one who sends Voynov down. Kings didn't call Voynov up and told TM, that he needs to play with Mitchell. It could have been anyone.

The question is: if Voynov STAYED after Doughty returned, what would have been his role? If he would have been healthy scratch all the time with Doughty on the team, then yeah, you are right. If he is not healthy scratch, then no, he is not being sent down in favor of Drew Doughty.

He is being sent down in favor of Drewiske, Martinez. Some will say also Greene, but there is no way Greene is scratched under TM so I will only list players that have been healthy scratches so far.

BTW I think that this "Voynov can only replace Doughty" statements - we have heard them from Jim Fox as well - are nothing but ridiculous. If he really is NHL defenseman, he can play at any position, from #3 to #6 defenseman.

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Old
10-29-2011, 09:52 AM
  #55
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Room for Voynov? Trade Martinez / Zatkoff

Someone suggested to trade Martinez & Zarkoff to Philly. Actually, I would prefer to send him to Tampa Bay

To Tampa: Martinez & Zatkoff

To LA : Nikita Kucherov RW & a 2012 5th round pick
OR Johan Harju LW & 2012 3rd round pick

EDIT:

Winnipeg another option and may be a better one.

To Winnipeg : Martinez & Zatkoff

To LA : Carl Klingberg LW and a 4th round pick in 2012


Last edited by The Judge: 10-29-2011 at 10:01 AM.
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Old
10-29-2011, 12:26 PM
  #56
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I do need to cut someone for this.
I'll PM you a list.

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10-29-2011, 12:27 PM
  #57
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Five Games of (SLava) ,and people want to ditch A-Mart already? So glad none of you run an NHL team.

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10-29-2011, 12:37 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by The Judge View Post
Winnipeg another option and may be a better one.

To Winnipeg : Martinez & Zatkoff

To LA : Carl Klingberg LW and a 4th round pick in 2012
Winnipeg says no. I like Martinez but he is not worth Klingberg and Zatkoff only adds to a already crowded crease in St. John's and I am not sure he has more upside than Pasquale. WPG already their own version of Voynov in Paul Postma (more than proven all he can at AHL level and an offensive puck mover) stuck in the AHL, they do not make good trading partners for LA right now.

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10-29-2011, 12:41 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sybil227 View Post
You don't make a trade just so you have space for a young defenceman - unless he's the 2nd coming of Bobby Orr (and he isn't).
That being said - would you trade Martinez for Kyle Turris? And could you fit Turris under the cap?
Nope. I worry about him being a headcase right now. Value wise it's a no-brainer, I'd take Turris, but cap wise we can't do it and I have to wonder just how smart he is to be doing what he's doing right now.

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Old
10-29-2011, 12:47 PM
  #60
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Why would you want to trade out of having too many good players? This is what Lombardi has been building for. Like in Detroit just because the player might think he's ready doesn't mean there is a spot there waiting for him. You earn your stripes in the minors and when the big team has room for you you get to play. I don't understand what the big deal is.

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10-29-2011, 12:48 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by debonair399 View Post
I noticed both Scuderi and Johnson shoot left, but Johnson plays the right side while Scuderi plays the left side.

Usually, d-men who shoot left play the left side. Can't Johnson play the left side or learn to play the left side?

Wouldn't the following be a sensible solution?

Mitchell-Doughty
Scuderi-Voynov
Johnson-Greene
Martinez
That way, you have a veteran in each pairing AND you have a puck-mover and a defensive d-man in each pairing.

It may take Johnson some time to learn how to play the left side.... but when he eventually gets good enough.... he could move up while one of Mitchell or Scuderi moves down to the third pairing.
Most posters didn't want to keep Voynov up out of training camp because he'd be the 7th D-man and it would stunt his growth, no ice time, etc.

Now, after five games, you want to appoint Voynov regular status and make another young defenseman, Martinez, who had a heck of a good 60 games last year, the 7th D-man. Where's the logic?

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10-29-2011, 12:51 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
Kings will have to deal someone, because even next summer when Mitchell is a UFA, he is not the same type of player Voynov is. Doughty, Johnson and Martinez are the puck movers and similar to Voynov.

Mitchell is a stay at home veteran presence, not the same thing as a rookie puck mover....so the Kings will have to deal one of Johnson, Doughty or Martinez to make room for Voynov....bottom line. Scuderi and Greene are stay at home guys and perfect compliment to puck movers as well.
I think Muzzin will take Willie's spot (unless Willie is resigned). I expect one of Martinez or Voynov to be dealt in a package for a goalscorer either at the trade deadline or at the draft. If it's at the trade deadline, my money is on martinez.

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10-29-2011, 12:57 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
I think Muzzin will take Willie's spot (unless Willie is resigned). I expect one of Martinez or Voynov to be dealt in a package for a goalscorer either at the trade deadline or at the draft. If it's at the trade deadline, my money is on martinez.
I wouldn't trade Martinez. This scenario reminds me too much of the Blake, Sydor, Zhitnik scenario where the vets were dealt first then the kids were next because they didn't have the vets around. You let Mitchell walk and open up a spot, then you let Scuderi walk and open up a spot. Let the kids develop SLOWLY, no need to panic. Martinez still has some very good upside, always makes the right play, very calm with and without the puck, the Kings have no need to trade any defensemen right now. Let it play itself out when the older guys hit free agency.

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10-29-2011, 12:57 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by BringTheReign View Post
I know it's the smart move for the team as far was waiver rules go, but it has to hurt VV seeing kids younger than him stepping in and playing right away. There's only so much "understanding" before someone starts feel like they're being shorted, even if it's just a little inkling.
No one on the Kings blueline is younger than him. Even Doughty is a month older.

If you are referring to forwards, why in the world would VV be concerned with an 18-year-old forward getting onto the team when he's a D-man?

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10-29-2011, 12:57 PM
  #65
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Too bad for Voynov but he will be back.

I also can see a package trade involving Parse and Martinez down the line for a 2nd line LW for the strectch run.

That will open up a spot for Voynov.

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10-29-2011, 01:04 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by danmaloney27 View Post
Its quite apparent that VVoynov has overtaken AMartinez. Voynov has played solid defensively,rushes the puck pretty and has a good-great first pass. He's twice the plasyer Martinez is defensively!!! I'd trade Martinez and have Voynov up for good. He's ready and that's that!!! Philly could use a d-man maybe the Kings can get their 2nd rounder(2012) back from the Richards deal for Martinez. Kings could also kick in JZatkoff for a 4th R since the Flyers look like crap between the pipes. Hail to the King(s)!!!
Defination of a fickle fan base. To many have ADD.

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10-29-2011, 01:09 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Judge View Post
Someone suggested to trade Martinez & Zarkoff to Philly. Actually, I would prefer to send him to Tampa Bay

To Tampa: Martinez & Zatkoff

To LA : Nikita Kucherov RW & a 2012 5th round pick
OR Johan Harju LW & 2012 3rd round pick

EDIT:

Winnipeg another option and may be a better one.

To Winnipeg : Martinez & Zatkoff

To LA : Carl Klingberg LW and a 4th round pick in 2012
Doubt LA makes a tarde with the future in mind. Kings want to win now, not in a few years. Package Martinez/Voynov in a deal for a goalscorer.

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10-29-2011, 01:13 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Tikkanen View Post
I wouldn't trade Martinez. This scenario reminds me too much of the Blake, Sydor, Zhitnik scenario where the vets were dealt first then the kids were next because they didn't have the vets around. You let Mitchell walk and open up a spot, then you let Scuderi walk and open up a spot. Let the kids develop SLOWLY, no need to panic. Martinez still has some very good upside, always makes the right play, very calm with and without the puck, the Kings have no need to trade any defensemen right now. Let it play itself out when the older guys hit free agency.
I just think DL will make a deal at the deadline, and the area of strength to trade from is defense. I think Martinez will hold more trade value though, just because he's NHL 'proven' while Voynov isn't.

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10-29-2011, 01:27 PM
  #69
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Pair Johnson and Doughty.

Soon TM needs to pair our top D guys, DD and JJ.

then Voynov can pair with a defensiv guy (Mithell or Scuderi)

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10-29-2011, 01:31 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Peter32 View Post
Soon TM needs to pair our top D guys, DD and JJ.

then Voynov can pair with a defensiv guy (Mithell or Scuderi)
I LOVE the idea!

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Old
10-29-2011, 05:16 PM
  #71
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Voynov's Been Great!

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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
Doubt LA makes a tarde with the future in mind. Kings want to win now, not in a few years. Package Martinez/Voynov in a deal for a goalscorer.
When DDoughty went down the Kings should've stumbled,but didn't. When Voynov played he showed a side few 21 show,maturity! He was solid, made few if any mental mistakes and even won the Kings the game at Dallas. That alone should be enough. I fully expect the Kings to have Voynov on the Kings on a permanent basis shortly. I expect Lombardi will make a deal to make that happen. Call me crazy but I'd rather have Voynov than either Martinez or Doughty. I'd peddle them for good-great young goal scorers who aren't likely to resign with current NHL teams(Parise)!!!And maybe the Kings can add a few other pieces so we can get ALarsson too. Just a thought...I luv Voynov's game and I think he's going to improve by leaps and bounds and could be an allstar.

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10-29-2011, 05:21 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by danmaloney27 View Post
Its quite apparent that VVoynov has overtaken AMartinez. Voynov has played solid defensively,rushes the puck pretty and has a good-great first pass. He's twice the plasyer Martinez is defensively!!! I'd trade Martinez and have Voynov up for good. He's ready and that's that!!! Philly could use a d-man maybe the Kings can get their 2nd rounder(2012) back from the Richards deal for Martinez. Kings could also kick in JZatkoff for a 4th R since the Flyers look like crap between the pipes. Hail to the King(s)!!!
That's a good one.

Martinez has not been a detriment to this team. In fact, he's been super solid. The kings are finally in a position like Detroit. Their prospects marinate for many years in the AHL because of the depth they have in the organization. He'll get his chance. Patience.

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10-29-2011, 05:21 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by danmaloney27 View Post
When DDoughty went down the Kings should've stumbled,but didn't. When Voynov played he showed a side few 21 show,maturity! He was solid, made few if any mental mistakes and even won the Kings the game at Dallas. That alone should be enough. I fully expect the Kings to have Voynov on the Kings on a permanent basis shortly. I expect Lombardi will make a deal to make that happen. Call me crazy but I'd rather have Voynov than either Martinez or Doughty. I'd peddle them for good-great young goal scorers who aren't likely to resign with current NHL teams(Parise)!!!And maybe the Kings can add a few other pieces so we can get ALarsson too. Just a thought...I luv Voynov's game and I think he's going to improve by leaps and bounds and could be an allstar.
Crazy.

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Old
10-29-2011, 05:23 PM
  #74
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Crazy.
Ditto!

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10-29-2011, 05:26 PM
  #75
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Ditto!
I was blinded by the exclamation points.

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