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I don't see a trade like this happening, but just for the heck of it...
To Vancouver
Marty Turco
Jason Arnott
Martin Skoula
To Dallas
Todd Bertuzzi
Dan Cloutier
1st round pick
Both Turco and Arnott are UFA's at seasons' end and there are rumours that the Stars are shopping around Turco and Skoula(I doubt Turco is on the block but whatever). I can't see Bertuzzi being dealt at this time, but he's struggled to start the season(no surprise) and maybe a change of scenery is what is needed?
In any case, the Canucks would get a legitamate top 10 NHL goalie that has had playoff success, as well as a big, strong center who could play on the 1st line with Naslund. They also get a decent 5th/6th d-man in Martin Skoula who could help out on the PP.
Dallas gets a question mark in Bertuzzi who could really pay off for them. Even while slumping he's still putting up points, getting chances and creating room on the ice, but when he gets on his game, look out, because there aren't many players as dominating. The Stars also get a good starting goalie in Dan Cloutier who as everyone knows has had playoff woes so far in his career. Perhaps playing in front of a better defensive club in Dallas would help him out. Dallas also gets the Canucks' 1st round pick.
Anyway, a trade like this would mark a pretty big shakeup for both clubs, and I really don't see something like this happening. But it's Sunday and I'm pretty bored, so flame away!
I don't see a trade like this happening, but just for the heck of it...
To Vancouver
Marty Turco
Jason Arnott
Martin Skoula
To Dallas
Todd Bertuzzi
Dan Cloutier
1st round pick
Both Turco and Arnott are UFA's at seasons' end and there are rumours that the Stars are shopping around Turco and Skoula(I doubt Turco is on the block but whatever). I can't see Bertuzzi being dealt at this time, but he's struggled to start the season(no surprise) and maybe a change of scenery is what is needed?
In any case, the Canucks would get a legitamate top 10 NHL goalie that has had playoff success, as well as a big, strong center who could play on the 1st line with Naslund. They also get a decent 5th/6th d-man in Martin Skoula who could help out on the PP.
Dallas gets a question mark in Bertuzzi who could really pay off for them. Even while slumping he's still putting up points, getting chances and creating room on the ice, but when he gets on his game, look out, because there aren't many players as dominating. The Stars also get a good starting goalie in Dan Cloutier who as everyone knows has had playoff woes so far in his career. Perhaps playing in front of a better defensive club in Dallas would help him out. Dallas also gets the Canucks' 1st round pick.
Anyway, a trade like this would mark a pretty big shakeup for both clubs, and I really don't see something like this happening. But it's Sunday and I'm pretty bored, so flame away!
You would be correct. The only way Arnott or Turco even possibly become available is at deadline time, if the Stars are out of it. If that happens, I highly doubt the Stars would be looking to pick up big salaries/older players. They'd be after very young guys/prospects/picks.
are you serious? personally, his past history or not, i think it would take those 3 players to get Bertuzzi alone. let's not overrate Skoula and Arnott here...
If I'm Vancouver I do this trade. It might upset Naslund with Bertuzzi leaving but Arnott fills his role and Turco is a substantial upgrade in goal. Plus, Skoula bolsters the defense.
If I'm Dallas I don't do this unless I really want Bertuzzi. First they basically wave goodbye to the playoffs this year because they give up Turco. And then their weak defense corp gets even weaker with Skoula leaving. The 1st round pick is nice but it will be late first round and Dallas isn't really rebuilding at the moment.
If I'm Vancouver I do this trade. It might upset Naslund with Bertuzzi leaving but Arnott fills his role and Turco is a substantial upgrade in goal. Plus, Skoula bolsters the defense.
If I'm Dallas I don't do this unless I really want Bertuzzi. First they basically wave goodbye to the playoffs this year because they give up Turco. And then their weak defense corp gets even weaker with Skoula leaving. The 1st round pick is nice but it will be late first round and Dallas isn't really rebuilding at the moment.
a) Skoula leaving a defense corps does not weaken it as much as you'd think. i personally consider Kurt Sauer an upgrade.
b) Is Turco a substantial upgrade over Cloutier for a team looking for playoff success? i ask because i don't recall Turco having any sort of playoff success whatsoever. correct me if i'm wrong on that, but i think the guy has "unreliable" written all over him.
c) Arnott fills Bertuzzi's role? on what planet? when he's on top of his game, Bertuzzi is a monster. Arnott is an unreliable 2nd line center at best. he used to be better, but he's simply not. not sure why you think that would be an even swap...
a) Skoula leaving a defense corps does not weaken it as much as you'd think. i personally consider Kurt Sauer an upgrade.
b) Is Turco a substantial upgrade over Cloutier for a team looking for playoff success? i ask because i don't recall Turco having any sort of playoff success whatsoever. correct me if i'm wrong on that, but i think the guy has "unreliable" written all over him.
c) Arnott fills Bertuzzi's role? on what planet? when he's on top of his game, Bertuzzi is a monster. Arnott is an unreliable 2nd line center at best. he used to be better, but he's simply not. not sure why you think that would be an even swap...
The more I analyze this trade the more I realize it's alot more even than I initially thought. At first I thought it favoured Vancouver 100% but the more I look at it, if you rate it purely on talent it actually benefits Dallas I think.
a) Skoula is a very good option as a #5 defenseman. I would take him on Ottawa over Pothier any day of the week as our #5. His leaving definately weakens the Dallas defense. He has been a + in all but one of his seasons and brings good offense from the backend.
b) In my opinion (key words here) Turco is a substantial upgrade over Cloutier. Even more so than Bertuzzi over Arnott. Turco was good in his first playoff appearance and last season was more the teams fault than his. Let's not forget this is the guy who won the award for best SV% in the NHL ... twice.
c) Bertuzzi for Arnott would not be an even swap, you are right. I would say Arnott fills 75% of Bertuzzi's shoes though. It would be a downgrade in offense for Vancouver but the substantial upgrade in goaltending would offset this.
I don't think that I do this trade from either perspective anymore. Dallas can't do it because it weakens them too much in their already weak areas. Vancouver might actually be overpaying with that 1st round pick in there. Hell, I don't know, it's a pretty even trade proposal.
The more I analyze this trade the more I realize it's alot more even than I initially thought. At first I thought it favoured Vancouver 100% but the more I look at it, if you rate it purely on talent it actually benefits Dallas I think.
a) Skoula is a very good option as a #5 defenseman. I would take him on Ottawa over Pothier any day of the week as our #5. His leaving definately weakens the Dallas defense. He has been a + in all but one of his seasons and brings good offense from the backend.
b) In my opinion (key words here) Turco is a substantial upgrade over Cloutier. Even more so than Bertuzzi over Arnott. Turco was good in his first playoff appearance and last season was more the teams fault than his. Let's not forget this is the guy who won the award for best SV% in the NHL ... twice.
c) Bertuzzi for Arnott would not be an even swap, you are right. I would say Arnott fills 75% of Bertuzzi's shoes though. It would be a downgrade in offense for Vancouver but the substantial upgrade in goaltending would offset this.
I don't think that I do this trade from either perspective anymore. Dallas can't do it because it weakens them too much in their already weak areas. Vancouver might actually be overpaying with that 1st round pick in there. Hell, I don't know, it's a pretty even trade proposal.
you're right about a lot of it. i still don't think its that even, simply because i think Bertuzzi would command more than that, as he is IMO more important to Vancouver's success than Turco would be.
i think this trade would greatly improve Dallas, maybe not immediately, but likely for the future. again, thats probably just because i don't have that much faith in Turco.
Correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't Turco been relatively brutal in the playoffs too? I think I remember in 03-04 that he had something like an 0.847 save percentage, and just got schooled by Colorado in the playoffs. That's not much of an upgrade if playoff success is what you look at.
you're right about a lot of it. i still don't think its that even, simply because i think Bertuzzi would command more than that, as he is IMO more important to Vancouver's success than Turco would be.
i think this trade would greatly improve Dallas, maybe not immediately, but likely for the future. again, thats probably just because i don't have that much faith in Turco.
I think our perceptions of Turco are why we don't see this deal the same way. Whereas you don't have any faith in Turco I see him as a top-5 goalie in the NHL. Even without the playoff success I place him above guys like Khabibulin and just above guys like Nabakov and Kiprusoff. In fact if Turco is #5, Nabakov is probably #6. But as you can see I think he's a pretty damn good goalie.
Turco is not available, I don't know why some refuse to see this picture.
Recently some rumors surfaced and that's the source.
I think that the deal will also weaken the Canucks. Who is going to make room for Naslund? Arnott is a good center, but he ain't no Bertuzzi. Arnott is another center and why do the Nucks need another one?
Turco hasn't been that strong so far and why would the Canucks want a playoff no-show-off.
Vancouver is off to a great start, why do you want to shake them up?
Correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't Turco been relatively brutal in the playoffs too? I think I remember in 03-04 that he had something like an 0.847 save percentage, and just got schooled by Colorado in the playoffs. That's not much of an upgrade if playoff success is what you look at.
In 2002-2003, he put up a 1.88 GAA in the playoffs in 12 games, losing to Michelin Man and the Ducks in the 2nd round. In 2003-2004, he was absolutely hung out to dry by the Stars defense and put up a 3.32 GAA in 5 games. For his playoff career that puts his GAA at 2.30, compared to 3.31 for Cloutier. I dont know about you, but that seems like a huge upgrade to me. Of course, it doesnt matter right now because Turco certainly isnt available at this point in time.
