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Bruce Garrioch: "Many believe Gauthier will be the next out the door"

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Old
10-30-2011, 12:21 PM
  #51
DumFries
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Some fans are hard to please sometimes. Gainey did not sent back this team, a decade! If anything, it was the Rejean Houle era who set this team back a decade and the team is still trying to recover. The Roy, Recchi, Damphousse, Turgeon trades coupled with poor drafting and the signing of marginal players to big contracts made this team the laughing stock of the NHL.

Gainey was the one who changed this. He was given nothing to work with and he somewhat made this team competitive again. He landed Kovalev for nothing. He got Bonk. He also acquired Lang and Tanguay. These were NHL caliber players. Would you rather have Poulin, Chouinard, Zholtok and Morissette or Lang, Tanguay and Kovalev in your lineup?

Sure, he made mistakes along the way with Grabovski, Ribeiro, Latendresse and trading for Gomez, however he brought back some credibility to this franchise again.

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Old
10-30-2011, 12:22 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 68 View Post
Gauthier >>> Gainey.
agreed, I liked Gainey the player but the GM not so much. Made a good deal with the Sharks for Rivet but besides that he wasn't anything special and I do believe Gauthier is more active anyways. If the Habs fire Gauthier I wouldn't mind Brisebois but would prefer McGuire

I don't believe much of this anyways, Garrioch is a clown

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Old
10-30-2011, 12:24 PM
  #53
Andy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oshawa General View Post
You're wrong about that. Boucher was already being courted by the Canadiens management when Carbonneau was fired, Canadien's managment was very high on him, he was their man, but they felt he needed more experience. The Martin hiring came out of left field, Gauthier has made it very comfortable for his buddy, Martin, by letting Boucher and Muller walk, and bringing in a couple of anglo ass't coaches, who will never be able to be head coaches here. Under Gauthier, there is NO succession plan, should they have to replace Martin, probably the main reason Pearn had to pay the price.

June 29th 2009 the Canadiens hire Boucher.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=283216

June 1st 2009 the Canadiens hire Jacques Martin

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=280562


Sorry bro, you are wrong.

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Old
10-30-2011, 12:25 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DumFries View Post
Some fans are hard to please sometimes. Gainey did not sent back this team, a decade! If anything, it was the Rejean Houle era who set this team back a decade and the team is still trying to recover. The Roy, Recchi, Damphousse, Turgeon trades coupled with poor drafting and the signing of marginal players to big contracts made this team the laughing stock of the NHL.

Gainey was the one who changed this. He was given nothing to work with and he somewhat made this team competitive again. He landed Kovalev for nothing. He got Bonk. He also acquired Lang and Tanguay. These were NHL caliber players. Would you rather have Poulin, Chouinard, Zholtok and Morissette or Lang, Tanguay and Kovalev in your lineup?

Sure, he made mistakes along the way with Grabovski, Ribeiro, Latendresse and trading for Gomez, however he brought back some credibility to this franchise again.
I mean look at EA sports....back then Montreal was a 70 now its a 85-91 team

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Old
10-30-2011, 12:26 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oshawa General View Post
You're wrong about that. Boucher was already being courted by the Canadiens management when Carbonneau was fired, Canadien's managment was very high on him, he was their man, but they felt he needed more experience. The Martin hiring came out of left field, Gauthier has made it very comfortable for his buddy, Martin, by letting Boucher and Muller walk, and bringing in a couple of anglo ass't coaches, who will never be able to be head coaches here. Under Gauthier, there is NO succession plan, should they have to replace Martin, probably the main reason Pearn had to pay the price.
You do realize that almost all teams have no such plans. That statement is just ridiculous. A team cannot perdict when is curent coach will be replaced and it cannot keep in the minors great coaches for ever, because other teams go and get them.

Any NHL team almost always goes outside their organization when it's time to replace their coach. You assess what's best available at the time. Any AHL coach can be hired at any time, teams don't block these moves.

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Old
10-30-2011, 12:30 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Jack Bourdain View Post
And to play devil's advocate, Gainey himself said the Ninimaa trade was his fault because he blindly trusted his scouts when they told him Ninimaa was a good defenceman. It was a mistake and an error in projecting a players talent.
Your posts in this thread have been excellent. However, no matter how well a trade is put into its context, there will always be that segment of posters who will look at the stats of the players who were swapped and ignore everything else.

The only thing I would add in is if the Habs keep Ribeiro, they are playing Koivu/Ribs as the top two centres until Koivu became a UFA. There would have been no room for Plekanec to develop into the player he is today.

Teams don't tend to voluntarily opt for having a vacancy in their top 6 when it comes to centre. I believe that some of the logic leading to the Ribeiro deal centred on providing Plekanec the opportunity to take that next step.

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Old
10-30-2011, 12:34 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
June 29th 2009 the Canadiens hire Boucher.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=283216

June 1st 2009 the Canadiens hire Jacques Martin

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=280562


Sorry bro, you are wrong.
Your dates are quite correct, what I was saying that Boucher was already being courted and groomed by Canadiens' managment before the Martin hiring, he was their man, but somewhere along the way, Martin was signed, and his buddy Gauthier has a lot to do with it.
Getting back to the original article by Garrioch, there may be some truth to it, (but knowing Garrioch, very little fact), especially the manipulation tactics that Gauthier has used to place his stamp on the team, his act may be starting to wear thin in Montreal, and especially when Geoff Molson hears the negative comments around the league concerning his team.

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Old
10-30-2011, 12:38 PM
  #58
Andy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oshawa General View Post
Your dates are quite correct, what I was saying that Boucher was already being courted and groomed by Canadiens' managment before the Martin hiring, .
Link please.

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Old
10-30-2011, 12:38 PM
  #59
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There's an awful lot of Boucher support and Martin hating in this thread. Lots of commotion for 2 points in the standings to say the least...

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Old
10-30-2011, 12:42 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oshawa General View Post
Your dates are quite correct, what I was saying that Boucher was already being courted and groomed by Canadiens' managment before the Martin hiring, he was their man, but somewhere along the way, Martin was signed, and his buddy Gauthier has a lot to do with it.
Getting back to the original article by Garrioch, there may be some truth to it, (but knowing Garrioch, very little fact), especially the manipulation tactics that Gauthier has used to place his stamp on the team, his act may be starting to wear thin in Montreal, and especially when Geoff Molson hears the negative comments around the league concerning his team.
you talk like you got some inside knowledge of some sorts.

and lol @ the article, obvious page hits is obvious.

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Old
10-30-2011, 12:42 PM
  #61
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Loll...fire Gauthier to bring Gainey back? How does this make any sense other than an interim job?
PG is not going anywhere. He has made good moves as a GM, there is absoluetely no reason for him to even be discussed.
Julien Brisebois? Please man, thats even funnier.

If management opted for a change, I think they would look at guys like Damphousse and Roy. But our team is not changing. We played well all season, except for Pit and Cgy. Our record could be better but we have been playing well. Garrioch is only looking for hits and I cant believe how some Habs fans are so damn stupid...

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Old
10-30-2011, 12:44 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
Gainey did not set this team back a decade.

Bob made a bunch of moves, some good, some bad, but the OVERALL RESULTS were that the team was top-3 in the league for improvement in point totals during his tenure versus the previous five years.

Furthermore, when he left, there were still good prospects left.

Improvement while still having prospects left is the best measure for how a GM did.

Conclusion: a very much above average job, despite the errors that we now see (with hindsight).
No, he only set it back 5 years or so. Does anyone remember his refusal to negotiate with impending free agents such as Mark Streit, losing players to waivers, juggling coaches, snubbing Koivu and favouring Gomez.

He actually stated that the only two free agents he wanted to sign that summer were Kovalev and Komisarek. What was that all about.

Really the list is amazingly long.

About the only thing that saved his reputation was the Rivet trade. Other than that, his evaluation of personnel has not been great

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Old
10-30-2011, 12:46 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
agreed, I liked Gainey the player but the GM not so much. Made a good deal with the Sharks for Rivet but besides that he wasn't anything special and I do believe Gauthier is more active anyways. If the Habs fire Gauthier I wouldn't mind Brisebois but would prefer McGuire

I don't believe much of this anyways, Garrioch is a clown
People have to understand why McGuire works on TV and not for a team.

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Old
10-30-2011, 12:51 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
Really? Ribeiro? You like the Latendresse move? The Gomez trade, and giving up such a promising young blueliner? Getting rid of Grabovski for nothing? Yet you only bring up the Gorges move?
Gainey had a mixed record and I don't deny he made some unwise moves, especially the Gomez trade. On the plus side I loved the Balej for Kovalev trade. Without it, the Habs would have missed the 2004 and 2006 playoffs and wouldn't have led the East in 2008. It was the team he put together that got to the ECF in 2010. He signed Hamrlik, Cammmalleri, Gill, and Gionta as UFAs and approved drafting Price, Halak, Pacioretty, Subban, Streit, Weber, Emelin, and White. He passed on Komisarek and Souray when they became UFAs. I liked the Latendresse trade because he gave up a player who scored 2 goals and 1 assist in 23 games for a player who was very good in his first season and helped make up for the absence of Cammalleri. Without Pouliot's goals the Habs would certainly not have made the playoffs. I still don't know what Latendresse could have contributed to the Habs had he remained.

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Old
10-30-2011, 12:54 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
Come on, what Gainey had to work with (budget wise) during his time as a GM compared to his predecessors is like comparing the social progess of Sweden vs Uganda...
I'm comparing where we were in the late 90s to where we were when he left. It was night and day.

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Old
10-30-2011, 12:56 PM
  #66
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A player like Gomez could easily be find in a trade if Plekanec is injured... at 7.3mil, he isn't worth it... and to think we gave McDonagh.
Really Gomez isn't worth 7.3 mil, thanks for enlightening everybody

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Old
10-30-2011, 01:01 PM
  #67
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It's so easy to stand here, behind a computer, and do revisionist history, and claim that you wouldn't have done the same mistake as the GM because you know so much about hockey.

Here are the facts that we know about the coaching hirings.

-Jacques Martin was hired almost a month before Guy Boucher.

-Jacques Martin was the GM of another team.

-Jacques Martin belongs has been in the NHL as a coach or has a GM for a long time.

-His coaching stats are good. He did some great work with the Sens back in the late 90's, early 2000's.

-Boucher had never coached a professional team at that point in his career.

From this, here are some logical links we can draw:

-Boucher was not ready to coach in the NHL. The fact that he accepted an AHL coaching gig points toward him not getting any NHL offers. The Habs were no better/worse than any team for not hiring him in the NHL right away.

-As mentioned above, firing Martin one year into his four years contract was not something doable. The Canadiens were already paying for Carbo, and anyway, Martin looked good in the previous season overall.

-Since Martin already had a good NHL job, prying him away from that other team required good numbers. That's probably why he got the contract he did.

-Martin's hiring reflected everything most Habs fans wanted at the time, after the failed Carbonneau experiment: a lot of experience behind the bench.

Say what you want about Martin, call him the worst coach of all time, but the fact that NHL executives are giving him job after job tells me that he belongs where he is. It's really hard to truly gauge the quality of a coach's job from the television. We don't have access to the dressing room, we don't know exactly what's going on... So when you say "Martin is a terrible coach", you don't really know what you are talking about it. It's your opinion, and you base it on speculation.

As for Boucher, I'd love to have him in the organization. I'd rather have him as a coach right now than Martin, if only because I've heard so many good things about the guy, but let's not make him to be the greatest NHL coach of all time. His team is struggling while being more talented than the Canadiens. Plus, as it has been mentioned many times, the timing was just not there. It sucks, but it is what it is. No need to dwell into it and make it the turning point where the Habs lost all hope of ever making it to the SCF. Gauthier is not responsible for losing Boucher. And our coaching situation is not as grim as some would lead you to believe.

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Old
10-30-2011, 01:10 PM
  #68
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Gainey couldn't have set the franchise back a decade because the franchise was better after Gainey than before. You can't really say that he set ups back a decade imo.

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10-30-2011, 01:13 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XperHFB View Post
Kind of hard to do worst then Rejean Houle.

At least Gauthier brought us players with names....like camallari, gomez, Cole, gionta, spacek...Gainey was really good in terms of setting the team straight. Hey he brought kovalev man....Honestly since that move we have been a better team... missing the playoffs only once.

People who complain about Gauthier and Gainey rly dont know what they are talking about. I agree though Gauthier has made allot of bad decisions this summer but i'm pretty sure the risks he took were calculated. It just happend that things went bad for a moment and every one was panicking.

If we fire gauthier who will we replace him with? In montreal your kind of stuck with the language so honestly Gauthier wont get fired any time soon.
This, people think they know so much about hockey and they don't. Leave it to the professionals.

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Old
10-30-2011, 01:16 PM
  #70
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I don't think Gauthier's job is on the line for a second. Even though I don't like his secretive approach, you can't deny he has improved, even if only slightly, on what was left when Gainey stepped down.

If only for the Halak for Eller trade, when there was a strong split on who should go (and that split was in favor of letting Price go among fans), he already made a key positive move that should help propel this team further. All the other moves were on the minor side but methodical. You can disagree with his team building philosophy, but it's harder to find signs of incompetence.

And I still think JM is going to get canned between now and next year's opener, unless we get on an other magical run to a SC final. But that's just my opinion.

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Old
10-30-2011, 01:28 PM
  #71
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Garrioch

Just trying to keep his 'predictions' alive:

https://twitter.com/#!/SunGarrioch/s...22176858955779

Quote:
Pierre Gauthier should have been fired. He will be next.
He's had it for Gauthier since the Ottawa days. Ask Sens fans. Something about Gauthier cutting down on free food for journalists

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Old
10-30-2011, 01:43 PM
  #72
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Odd timing by Bruce - when the Habs have won three straight over Philly and back to backs vs. the Cup champs.

I don't believe it for a second - the sources Garrioch speaks of are the vengeful voices in his head - he's had it out for Gauthier since his Ottawa days (because he wouldn't give Bruce juicy quotes or leak trades)...he never misses an opportunity to trash him...dubbed him The Ghost.

Gauthier isn't going anywhere...he's going to have to miss the playoffs at least once before that happens.

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Old
10-30-2011, 01:51 PM
  #73
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I guess some people just love watching gainey get bent over the table in trades. Anyone who runs away from his own mess is not coming back, Gauthier is doing the best he can while being tied to the team gainey built. I have almost never seen anyone as inept as gainey at asset managment, how anyone would put him in charge of a team again is beyond comprehension. They guy is up there with milbury.

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Old
10-30-2011, 01:52 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DumFries View Post
Some fans are hard to please sometimes. Gainey did not sent back this team, a decade! If anything, it was the Rejean Houle era who set this team back a decade and the team is still trying to recover. The Roy, Recchi, Damphousse, Turgeon trades coupled with poor drafting and the signing of marginal players to big contracts made this team the laughing stock of the NHL.

Gainey was the one who changed this. He was given nothing to work with and he somewhat made this team competitive again. He landed Kovalev for nothing. He got Bonk. He also acquired Lang and Tanguay. These were NHL caliber players. Would you rather have Poulin, Chouinard, Zholtok and Morissette or Lang, Tanguay and Kovalev in your lineup?

Sure, he made mistakes along the way with Grabovski, Ribeiro, Latendresse and trading for Gomez, however he brought back some credibility to this franchise again.
This is technically incorrect. Gainey was handed a far better than Savard was. Savard is the one that started to turn the team around. We were so close to getting Kovalchuk too, the year he was drafted. But we wouldn't have Markov anymore (some might say that would of been ok). Not trading Theo (Garon was offered at the time) was a mistake, I think. I liked Gainey. I still do. The man made mistakes, but he did some good things too. We have to also remember that he was dealing with the death of his daughter, which must of obviously affected his judgement.

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Old
10-30-2011, 01:54 PM
  #75
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He will not be fired if the team win hockey games . It's that simple

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