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The Only hope In Hell Of Chicago Trading 'Bulin...

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Old
11-06-2005, 11:25 PM
  #1
Bryanbryoil
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The Only hope In Hell Of Chicago Trading 'Bulin...

Would be to send Khabibulin + picks or young players to Washington for Kolzig. I'm not sure how many years Olaf has left in his contract, but Chicago would have to throw in some serious bait to get rid of him like 1 or 2 1st rounders or a highly touted prospect or 2. If not, you had better keep crossing your fingers that Khabby get's his head out of his ***. I really feel for the Hawks fans on this one, they overpay to make their team a serious one again, and then they get burnt. Why couldn't this have happened to the Leafs instead???

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11-06-2005, 11:28 PM
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Why the heck would the Caps, in a rebuilding mode, spend $7 million a year on one player, a struggling one at that as well. Makes no sense.

I don't think that Bulin is tradeable, but at the same time I expect his play to improve through the season.

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11-06-2005, 11:28 PM
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He will bounce back.

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11-06-2005, 11:36 PM
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Actually, there's currently some question as to what Kolzig wants to do. With Ouellet stumbling this year, the Caps have suggested that they may offer Kolzig an extension. Kolzig in turn has said that he will re-evaluate the Capitals' situation when that happens. Basically, if he's not satisfied with the pace of their rebuild over the course of the season, he'd probably look elsewhere when he becomes a UFA this summer. The Caps would under that scenario look to trade him at the deadline beforehand. If he feels they are building something promising, he might want to stay and they might talk extension between the January contract re-opening period and the trade deadline.

Of course, Kolzig never quantified his definition of 'progress' for a rebuilding club. Yet while in September I would have bet that Kolzig was in his last year with the club, now I am not so sure. The Caps are 6-8-0 as of today, and that's not bad considering how few veterans line the team's roster. The kids are starting to play well, very quickly, and the Caps could conceivably flirt with .400 or .500 hockey.

Regardless, the Caps have too many high first rounders (and their salaries/bonus structures) to relish absorbing Khabibulin's contract and term under the cap. That contract won't be attractive to anyone, not unless he posts one hell of a turnaround in the next six weeks or so of play. Even if sizzling... that contract is an albatross. Chicago just has to hope he rebounds, I think.

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11-07-2005, 12:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Legend
Why the heck would the Caps, in a rebuilding mode, spend $7 million a year on one player, a struggling one at that as well. Makes no sense.

I don't think that Bulin is tradeable, but at the same time I expect his play to improve through the season.
Well if they got a few 1st rounders in exchange it may lessen the blow. They currently have the cap space to absorb his salary and then some. The bottom line is that Chicago would have to throw in some serious extras to get rid of Khabby.

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11-07-2005, 12:24 AM
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He looked like the Khabby of old in the Hawks 2-1 OT win over Phoenix today. If I were the Hawks I'd be in no hurry to get rid of the Bulin Wall and my focus would be on trading guys like Bell and Arnason to strengthen my blueline with guys like Witt and Staios.

Bell to Edmonton for Staios and a 3rd

Arnason to Washington for Witt and a 5th

Sure you lose some offence, but at least you get Khabby some help back there and with those two additions you wouldn't need more than 3 goals to win most nights because Khabby would shut the door.

I just picked Khabby up in my Yahoo pool, him and Petr Sykora (Anahiem) for Joffrey Lupul and John Grahame...let's just say my fingers are crossed Khabby builds off today's solid performance.

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11-07-2005, 12:28 AM
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id rather have bulin the kolzig anyway and then add youngsters or picks for kolzig, blah no dice IMHO

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11-07-2005, 12:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salostyle
He looked like the Khabby of old in the Hawks 2-1 OT win over Phoenix today. If I were the Hawks I'd be in no hurry to get rid of the Bulin Wall and my focus would be on trading guys like Bell and Arnason to strengthen my blueline with guys like Witt and Staios.

Bell to Edmonton for Staios and a 3rd

Arnason to Washington for Witt and a 5th

Sure you lose some offence, but at least you get Khabby some help back there and with those two additions you wouldn't need more than 3 goals to win most nights because Khabby would shut the door.

I just picked Khabby up in my Yahoo pool, him and Petr Sykora (Anahiem) for Joffrey Lupul and John Grahame...let's just say my fingers are crossed Khabby builds off today's solid performance.
Edmonton cannot afford to trade one of their top 3 defenseman and not get a defenseman in return. They can't trade a defensemen currently with a depleted blue line.

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11-07-2005, 12:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salostyle
He looked like the Khabby of old in the Hawks 2-1 OT win over Phoenix today. If I were the Hawks I'd be in no hurry to get rid of the Bulin Wall and my focus would be on trading guys like Bell and Arnason to strengthen my blueline with guys like Witt and Staios.

Bell to Edmonton for Staios and a 3rd

Arnason to Washington for Witt and a 5th

Sure you lose some offence, but at least you get Khabby some help back there and with those two additions you wouldn't need more than 3 goals to win most nights because Khabby would shut the door.

I just picked Khabby up in my Yahoo pool, him and Petr Sykora (Anahiem) for Joffrey Lupul and John Grahame...let's just say my fingers are crossed Khabby builds off today's solid performance.
Bell and Arnason play important offensive roles, i wouldn't deal both of them b/c the hawks have nobody that can step up and fill their roles.....

and Arnason for Witt imo is bad from a hawks perspective....i think Witt's overrated and Arnason (26? i know he's no rookie but) is only going to get better IMO....

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11-07-2005, 01:01 AM
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Honestly, I can see alot of contenders taking a flyer on him. This guy can steal you a series, and is a rare caliber of goaltending that a contender needs. Naming a team off the top of my head that could really use him... Vancouver. If Vancouver somehow can pick him up and still stay within the cap, they are the favourite for me.

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11-07-2005, 01:26 AM
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I don't see Chicago trading Khabibulin. At least not for a little while. As of today, the 'Hawks have an ugly, ugly record of 5-10. They sit 13th in the West with 10 points; 7 points back of the final playoff spot. Try as you might, no number of twists in logic could make that record look even reasonably good. With that said, the good news for the Blackhawks is that they're only 14 games in to the season. The position they're in is not where they want to be, but it is entirely conceivable that by game 82, we'll have all forgotten about their poor start . Things can change so fast in the NHL; the Blackhawks making the playoffs is still well within the realm of possibility, if they turn it around. Trading Khabibulin now would end any hopes of "turning it around."

If we assume that by the trade deadline, the 'Hawks are well out of the race, then things are different. At that point the season, and the Khabibulin experiment, could both be called failures, which would make trading Nik the best option. If he was clearly not working out, it would be best to make a move and get what they can for him and move on. I assume that by the deadline, there will be at least one playoff team or playoff chasing team in need of a goaltender. Whether it be because of injuries or because their goaltender just isn't working out, there's always a market for a goaltender at the deadline. His return probably wouldn't be that great, but I know there would be interest.

The problem with your proposed trade in my view, is that the Capitals have no need for a goaltender like Khabibulin. I think it's a pretty good bet that the Capitals will not be contending for a playoff spot this season, or next season for that matter. They're built for the future. Why then, would they want to take on a very expensive, 32-year old goaltender? The truth is that the Caps just aren't that good right now, and probably won't be for a few more seasons, until their good prospects start to develop a bit. Trading for Khabibulin would just be a waste. On top of all that, they have Kolzig, who has been the least of their worries this season. His stats don't look too good, but the Caps games I've seen, he's done a fairly good job of keeping them in games, and that's all you can really ask of a goaltender on a team like Washington. He's a solid goaltender and a fan favorite, and I doubt they'd replace him unless he expressed an interest in going to a contender via trade (or free agency next season). As it stands, I doubt that materializes, so Washington would be an unlikely partner.

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11-07-2005, 01:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phanuthier
Honestly, I can see alot of contenders taking a flyer on him. This guy can steal you a series, and is a rare caliber of goaltending that a contender needs. Naming a team off the top of my head that could really use him... Vancouver. If Vancouver somehow can pick him up and still stay within the cap, they are the favourite for me.
Vancouver is already right near the cap ceiling and they're going to have to make some tough financial decisions next season (isn't Jovo an upcoming free agent?)... I can't see Khabibulin being an option for them.

He's been a pretty solid goaltender in the past but he's played terrible this year and he's making a ridiculous
$6 750 000. I could see some teams taking a chance on him if his contract ended with the season (heck, I'd like to see Edmonton grab him at the deadline if that was the case) but his contract will kill a team financially for a few years after this season and that's scary.

I can't see many teams taking a chance on a struggling player with a big, longterm contract in this new capped environment. Khabibulin could certainly start playing a lot better but I'm guessing most GM's don't want to take that chance.

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11-07-2005, 01:33 AM
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Hawks kind of screwed themselves in this one. No question, he has the ability to carry a team. He's the only reason Tampa won some of the games in the playoffs when they decided to not show up for whole periods, but when you sign someone for that much in a cap situation, you limit your options right away. Regardless of how much you might want, or even need a goalie like Khabi, there aren't many who would want that massive contract along with him.

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11-07-2005, 01:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebral
Vancouver is already right near the cap ceiling and they're going to have to make some tough financial decisions next season (isn't Jovo an upcoming free agent?)... I can't see Khabibulin being an option for them.

He's been a pretty solid goaltender in the past but he's played terrible this year and he's making a ridiculous
$6 750 000. I could see some teams taking a chance on him if his contract ended with the season (heck, I'd like to see Edmonton grab him at the deadline if that was the case) but his contract will kill a team financially for a few years after this season and that's scary.

I can't see many teams taking a chance on a struggling player with a big, longterm contract in this new capped environment. Khabibulin could certainly start playing a lot better but I'm guessing most GM's don't want to take that chance.
Well, a team that could really capatalize on this situation is a team that doesn't have to worry about the cap (because they likely won't reach it) but can do some damage in the playoffs. I've heard that the Oilers owners have given Lowe clearance to push the cap if Lowe thinks is feasible (ie. making a push for both Forsberg and Niedermayer) so maybe, if the Oilers can dump Peca, this would be an option for Edmonton? It would definatly vault Edmonton into one of the favourtes for me IMO.

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11-07-2005, 01:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phanuthier
Well, a team that could really capatalize on this situation is a team that doesn't have to worry about the cap (because they likely won't reach it) but can do some damage in the playoffs. I've heard that the Oilers owners have given Lowe clearance to push the cap if Lowe thinks is feasible (ie. making a push for both Forsberg and Niedermayer) so maybe, if the Oilers can dump Peca, this would be an option for Edmonton? It would definatly vault Edmonton into one of the favourtes for me IMO.
Nah, the Oilers have some needs that could be better addressed than by adding Khabibulin to the fold. They certainly have some more money to spend but I see them grabbing a decent 1b goaltender (Biron would still make some sense when Miller returns), a top 4 defenceman and possibly some scoring help at the deadline.

The problem is that no GM can really ignore the cap and view it as inconsequential - sure, the cap might not mean anything in a rebuilding year but it starts to become a lot more important when you're trying to resign your young stars a few years later and you're stuck with a $6.75 million goaltender.

Khabibulin has proven himself to be a great goaltender in this league but I'm not sure how many teams can afford to weigh themselves down with his contract. Chicago should stick with Khabibulin for the season and see how he looks by the deadline. Who knows, maybe a team will get desperate for a starting goaltender and fork out the cash needed to add him to the lineup. It's unlikely but it could certainly happen.

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11-07-2005, 02:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebral
but I see them grabbing a decent 1b goaltender (Biron would still make some sense when Miller returns), a top 4 defenceman and possibly some scoring help at the deadline.
A little OT, but do you actually believe in the 1a/1b goaltending situation? I know its working for Minnisota now, and did a couple years ago to the conference finals, but historically speaking, its generally not effective. Personally, I've seen it with the Brathwaite/whoever and it never worked out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebral
Who knows, maybe a team will get desperate for a starting goaltender and fork out the cash needed to add him to the lineup. It's unlikely but it could certainly happen.
I could see a young, inexperianced GM panic if his No 1 goalie goes down.

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11-07-2005, 02:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phanuthier
A little OT, but do you actually believe in the 1a/1b goaltending situation? I know its working for Minnisota now, and did a couple years ago to the conference finals, but historically speaking, its generally not effective. Personally, I've seen it with the Brathwaite/whoever and it never worked out.
Well, the ideal situation is having a dominant number one goaltender. However, I'm not completely against the 1a/1b system and I've seen it work in the past. It has failed for many teams but that's primarily because they tried to use two mediocre backups as a starting tandem. I'm not a fan of starting a different guy each night but I do like having two goaltenders that are capable of winning games on a team.

Markkanen has played well for the Oilers but it would be awfully nice to have a guy like Biron to play some games as well. I don't want the Oilers to have a goaltending duo that splits the games 41-41 but giving Markkanen 50 games and the backup 32 games could work. Essentially, I think the Oilers can make-do with a goaltending duo rather than an expensive starter and use the saved funds to upgrade other parts of their team. People constantly harp on Edmonton's goaltending situation but it is their defence that has let the team down in the big losses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phanuthier
I could see a young, inexperianced GM panic if his No 1 goalie goes down.
I can also see a young, inexperienced GM panic when his starting goaltender goes down. Unfortunately for that team, I can also view his face the next year when he looks at his budget and realizes that the trade is going to kill the team for the next few years. Cap space is going to be incredibly important over the next few years (as long as the cap doesn't go up too much and allow richer teams to use their spending power over small market clubs) and I'm guessing the succesful GM's are the ones that leave themselves with some financial leverage. You see a lot of teams in the NBA that are essentially crippled and unable to improve due to some huge contracts and I'm guessing we'll see that in the NHL as well.

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11-07-2005, 02:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebral
Cap space is going to be incredibly important over the next few years (as long as the cap doesn't go up too much and allow richer teams to use their spending power over small market clubs) and I'm guessing the succesful GM's are the ones that leave themselves with some financial leverage. You see a lot of teams in the NBA that are essentially crippled and unable to improve due to some huge contracts and I'm guessing we'll see that in the NHL as well.
If it didn't stop the NBA GM's from making stupid moves, whats stopping the NHL GM's from doing so?

We saw fat Lou blow his cap on guys like Mogilny, hanging on a thread by injuries keeping him a hair below the cap. And fat Lou is apperently quite a masterfull, all-seeing genius (personally, I don't think so, but thats for another day).

Edmonton... agreed. I still can't believe they were willing to go into the season with Bergeron, Cross and Ulanov ALL in their top 6.

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11-07-2005, 02:28 AM
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11-07-2005, 03:56 AM
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Pittsburgh is probably the only team that could have interest in dealing for Khabi. And have some salaries to offer back.

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11-07-2005, 09:29 AM
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Khabby's staying here for all the obvious reasons (he'll return to form, makes a ton of $, etc...). And nobody...NOBODY is gonna take on $20m (3 yrs) for a deadline deal.

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11-07-2005, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad
The problem with your proposed trade in my view, is that the Capitals have no need for a goaltender like Khabibulin. I think it's a pretty good bet that the Capitals will not be contending for a playoff spot this season, or next season for that matter. They're built for the future. Why then, would they want to take on a very expensive, 32-year old goaltender? The truth is that the Caps just aren't that good right now, and probably won't be for a few more seasons, until their good prospects start to develop a bit. Trading for Khabibulin would just be a waste. On top of all that, they have Kolzig, who has been the least of their worries this season. His stats don't look too good, but the Caps games I've seen, he's done a fairly good job of keeping them in games, and that's all you can really ask of a goaltender on a team like Washington. He's a solid goaltender and a fan favorite, and I doubt they'd replace him unless he expressed an interest in going to a contender via trade (or free agency next season). As it stands, I doubt that materializes, so Washington would be an unlikely partner.
Excellent summary of the Capitals' situation, in my opinion.

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11-07-2005, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Phanuthier
Edmonton... agreed. I still can't believe they were willing to go into the season with Bergeron, Cross and Ulanov ALL in their top 6.
Well, the gamble was that Semenov would take another step forward in his development and solidify his role on the team as a top 4 defender. He hasn't done that but he looked very solid last game and he's showing signs of coming around. Cross was actually playing fairly well for the Oilers prior to his injury and he's a solid bottom pairing defender. Ulanov has also been good at times (not nearly as effective as last season though) but there isn't room for both he and Cory in the same lineup.

Things should get interesting tonight in Dallas if Pronger is actually hurt and misses the game. That would leave the Oilers with 4 of their top 6 defenders injured - depth is nice but you can't account for something as ridiculous as that.

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11-07-2005, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phanuthier
Honestly, I can see alot of contenders taking a flyer on him. This guy can steal you a series, and is a rare caliber of goaltending that a contender needs. Naming a team off the top of my head that could really use him... Vancouver. If Vancouver somehow can pick him up and still stay within the cap, they are the favourite for me.
........ interesting idea......... specially if you had the rumor that Todd Bertuzzi was offered to other teams before the beginning of this season. Both are making big money, but I don't see Chicago going only with Anderson. Still, if Auld continues to be solid like he is, I don't see Khabi going there. A change of scenario could be good for both players however.

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11-07-2005, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerebral
Well, the gamble was that Semenov would take another step forward in his development and solidify his role on the team as a top 4 defender. He hasn't done that but he looked very solid last game and he's showing signs of coming around. Cross was actually playing fairly well for the Oilers prior to his injury and he's a solid bottom pairing defender. Ulanov has also been good at times (not nearly as effective as last season though) but there isn't room for both he and Cory in the same lineup.

Things should get interesting tonight in Dallas if Pronger is actually hurt and misses the game. That would leave the Oilers with 4 of their top 6 defenders injured - depth is nice but you can't account for something as ridiculous as that.
Pronger has an injured toe and hasn't practice since the St. Louis game. He's a game-time decision.

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