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Bruce Garrioch: "Many believe Gauthier will be the next out the door"

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Old
10-30-2011, 04:15 PM
  #101
Vsevolod Bobrov
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
Brisebois is mainly a $$$ guy. he,s good with contracts. Hockey wise, I doubt he knows that much. And PLEASE, no more Gainey.
I bet Brisebois is a lot better than Gainey at evaluating talent.

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10-30-2011, 04:19 PM
  #102
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If Gainey came back, I'll never watch this team again and lose respect for this franchise forever. The man set this team back a decade, his trades were among the worst ever this franchise has ever witnessed.
Yup everyone really hated the Rivet trade for Gorges and the pick that got us Pacioretty.

Yup, he really set us back by getting players like Subban, Price, Pac, Desharnais, Emelin, Weber, Halak (which got us Eller), Cammy, Gionta, Gorges...

Now I really hope Gainey comes back...

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10-30-2011, 04:21 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Yup everyone really hated the Rivet trade for Gorges and the pick that got us Pacioretty.

Yup, he really set us back by getting players like Subban, Price, Pac, Desharnais, Emelin, Weber, Halak (which got us Eller), Cammy, Gionta, Gorges...

Now I really hope Gainey comes back...
But then he wont have time to play the piano

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10-30-2011, 04:25 PM
  #104
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But then he wont have time to play the piano
But that poster will, and it's all that matters.

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10-30-2011, 04:39 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Quarantesix View Post
really?? the SK trade?? D'Ags?? Worst trade in the franchise history??

Gauthier have more good trades than bad since he's the Habs GM
read my post.

Who was the idiot directing professional scouting when it was recommended to make Janne Niinimaa a principle in a trade involving Mike Ribeiro.

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10-30-2011, 04:41 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Yup everyone really hated the Rivet trade for Gorges and the pick that got us Pacioretty.

Yup, he really set us back by getting players like Subban, Price, Pac, Desharnais, Emelin, Weber, Halak (which got us Eller), Cammy, Gionta, Gorges...

Now I really hope Gainey comes back...
That Rivet trade was fantastic, but the others players you listed were drafted and we should thanks timmins for that (of course he was hired by gainey but still). As for cammy,gionta....they are good players but overpaid. IMO, Gainey lost it around the trade deadline of the season we finished 1st. He didnt succed to complete the Hossa trade, and was so sure he was getting him (with hedberg, sending Halak to Atlanta..) that he traded Huet for a 2nd. How things could have been differents in the playoffs that year if we had Hossa and a vet goalie... that team he assembled was great , but then he blew up the team next year and I dont blame him but he could have done much better to re-build the team, IE not trade your best prospect for 7.3 million Gomez.

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10-30-2011, 04:46 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Yup everyone really hated the Rivet trade for Gorges and the pick that got us Pacioretty.

Yup, he really set us back by getting players like Subban, Price, Pac, Desharnais, Emelin, Weber, Halak (which got us Eller), Cammy, Gionta, Gorges...

Now I really hope Gainey comes back...
Wow, your proofs are going to be a list of accomplishments from Timmins and NHL lotteries. What about the deals and moves that clearly have both Gainey/Gauthier's DNA at the crime scene?

No proof that these players or better wouldn't have come the team's way with anyone else being Timmins boss.

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10-30-2011, 04:49 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Crystal Met View Post
That Rivet trade was fantastic, but the others players you listed were drafted and we should thanks timmins for that (of course he was hired by gainey but still). As for cammy,gionta....they are good players but overpaid. IMO, Gainey lost it around the trade deadline of the season we finished 1st. He didnt succed to complete the Hossa trade, and was so sure he was getting him (with hedberg, sending Halak to Atlanta..) that he traded Huet for a 2nd. How things could have been differents in the playoffs that year if we had Hossa and a vet goalie... that team he assembled was great , but then he blew up the team next year and I dont blame him but he could have done much better to re-build the team, IE not trade your best prospect for 7.3 million Gomez.
Revisionist history doesn't make for a good argument. McDonagh, if you have any memory, was trailing in his development and his value was pretty low.

So it's Gainey's fault when prospects are bad (most people blame the Fischer pick on him), but it's not because of him we got all the good ones...

Also, you might want to learn the concept of necessity, it might help you understand some of the trades (not all).

And Cammy is not overpaid. His 29 points in 26 playoff games with us is a clear sign of that.

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10-30-2011, 05:00 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
read my post.

Who was the idiot directing professional scouting when it was recommended to make Janne Niinimaa a principle in a trade involving Mike Ribeiro.
how many offers Gainey had for Ribeiro??
Does Niinimaa was the only player offer for Ribs??
What Gauthier said to Gainey before this trade??


Bottom line you don't have the answer to these questions and Gainey made that trade not Gauthier.

Since Gauthier is the GM he have a good trade record

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10-30-2011, 05:04 PM
  #110
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Blunder or not, we have been competitive since Gomez was acquired and could not even use all of our cap space this season.

If Plekanec went down for any length of time, Gomez would be indispensable. You can't compete in the NHL with Eller-Desharnais-Nokelainen-Engqvist.
Gomez replacing Plekanec is like Plekanec replacing Crosby.

You're not going to do very well with Gomez - DD - Eller unless Eller and DD carry the team on their back.

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Old
10-30-2011, 05:04 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Revisionist history doesn't make for a good argument. McDonagh, if you have any memory, was trailing in his development and his value was pretty low.

So it's Gainey's fault when prospects are bad (most people blame the Fischer pick on him), but it's not because of him we got all the good ones...

Also, you might want to learn the concept of necessity, it might help you understand some of the trades (not all).

And Cammy is not overpaid. His 29 points in 26 playoff games with us is a clear sign of that.
Hmmm Mcdonagh was still listed as our best prospect (our maybe 2nd, but still, plus we included Higgins), and yes i understand the concept of needs, thats why i didnt talk about the grabovsky trade since it got us Lang. Gainey was great for most of his tenure as a GM, but the turning point imo was the hossa-huet debacle. And the year after of course was the 100th desaster...not really his fault there but he should have left before trading for Gomez ,etc. Let somoene else re-build the team. But im not mad, we are in good shape imo and i dont want gauthier/martin fired. The only problem is Gomez and i dont see no team trading for him anytime soon

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10-30-2011, 05:10 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
buy low sell high...

Grabs "value" in trade at the time might very well have been minimal (and we have no way to know with complete certainty, so can't say wether 2nd was "great value"), but that's precisely why you don't move said player at that time.

what all the young talented players that we got a clearly poor return for (in terms of how those players progressed within the immediate future of having been traded) had in common is that they were either portrayed as "headaches", had asked to be moved (believing that they could play well enough to deserve a more important role, something all of them have since clearly established), or didn't "fit" into our plans for whatever reason...

so trading them isn't really the issue, the issue is trading them in deals where we clearly ended up with far less valuable assets (either in NHL contribution, or in organizational depth)...

just b/c the best offer you get on your car is way below it's actual worth, doesn't mean you pull the trigger... unless your desperate... a good GM works hard to avoid dealing out of desperation.
I see what you mean, but I think you forget about their negative presence on the team. Most of these guys were hated by their teammates and moving them out ASAP was a top priority. You get what you can under those circumstances, you can't let them on the team for another year or 2.

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Old
10-30-2011, 05:11 PM
  #113
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If Gomez played like the Gomez in Jersey, he'd be a legit #1 center. He's crap now, but I'd take the Gomez we had in the first year after the trade over Grabo at his best.

I'm guessing, the better the Leafs get, the smaller Grabo's role will be.
Yeah, I don't think you watch enough of the Leafs.

Grabovski plays more than anyone on the team except Phil Kessel. He also plays a lot on the Powerplay. Oh, and he plays over 1-minute per game on the PK. Grabovski has developed into so much more than even I thought (and I was one of his biggest supports before he came here).

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Old
10-30-2011, 05:13 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Revisionist history doesn't make for a good argument. McDonagh, if you have any memory, was trailing in his development and his value was pretty low.

So it's Gainey's fault when prospects are bad (most people blame the Fischer pick on him), but it's not because of him we got all the good ones...

Also, you might want to learn the concept of necessity, it might help you understand some of the trades (not all).

And Cammy is not overpaid. His 29 points in 26 playoff games with us is a clear sign of that.
I'm sorry but it's well known that dmen take a lot of time to develop. Gainey wasn't patient enough, gambled that McDo wouldn't pan out, and lost.

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10-30-2011, 05:14 PM
  #115
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Blunder or not, we have been competitive since Gomez was acquired and could not even use all of our cap space this season.

If Plekanec went down for any length of time, Gomez would be indispensable. You can't compete in the NHL with Eller-Desharnais-Nokelainen-Engqvist.
Yet this is what we have.

Gainey did set this team back and Gauthier is not really doing anything to move this team forward.

The question remains. Can the 2011-2012 Montreal Canadiens win the Stanley Cup this year?

If not, this falls squarely on Gauthier (Gainey is gone......blaming someone not in the position feels good but is a disconnect from reality).

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10-30-2011, 05:15 PM
  #116
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Hmmm Mcdonagh was still listed as our best prospect (our maybe 2nd, but still, plus we included Higgins)
The only place where he was listed as our best prospect was on HF, which doesn't say much. Mcdonagh wasn't developing well at all, he was mediocre offensively in the NCAA, unable to get better has the years went and was clearly getting passed by both Subban and Weber in the depth chart.

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I'm sorry but it's well known that dmen take a lot of time to develop. Gainey wasn't patient enough, gambled that McDo wouldn't pan out, and lost.
Gainey didn't "gambled" crap, he needed to trade for a top center, and ended up choosing Gomez. He needed to give assets, and he chose the worst (or at least the one who was developing the slowest) of the three defenseman he had recently drafted. It wasn't about "being patient", it was about making a deal.


Last edited by Habsfan18: 10-30-2011 at 06:04 PM. Reason: merge
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10-30-2011, 05:28 PM
  #117
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I dislike the notion that "Timmins made the picks". Not because it isn't true, but it's as biased as saying a poor trade falls on our pro scouts, not our GM. I think a GM should share in the selections and work of his personnel because he is responsible for them and he is the one who recruited/hired them or maintained their services. I think gainey should be applauded for his patience in restocking the prospect depth, his rare use of trading young assets and his good trades. He should also be criticized for his poor trades, poor moves and poor personnel choices. That being said, gainey did more good than bad. Boo hoo, we lost ribeiro and others. Yah, what about the ones gainey let get away, the komisareks and such. Was the lack of a move a good move on that part? I think so. Comparing what is done is only a fraction of the story. Sometimes it's Gainey's lack of movement that was key. No ones perfect.

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10-30-2011, 05:29 PM
  #118
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This, people think they know so much about hockey and they don't. Leave it to the professionals.
Meanwhile, us idiot amateurs look on as the "professionals" that some people worship have not gotten the Canadiens to the Stanley Cup Finals (much less winning it) since 1993.

This is why a lot of fans are not happy with the "professionals" who have this franchise going nowhere year after year. This year included.

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10-30-2011, 05:31 PM
  #119
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Yet this is what we have.

Gainey did set this team back and Gauthier is not really doing anything to move this team forward.

The question remains. Can the 2011-2012 Montreal Canadiens win the Stanley Cup this year?

If not, this falls squarely on Gauthier (Gainey is gone......blaming someone not in the position feels good but is a disconnect from reality).
well, of the 3 C listed in the post you quoted, one was in a trade for what is now a backup goalie (Halak) and the other acquired by giving a career AHLer/European league player (Trotter)...

so saying he's not doing anything good for our future (going forward) is wrong...

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10-30-2011, 05:34 PM
  #120
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Meanwhile, us idiot amateurs look on as the "professionals" that some people worship have not gotten the Canadiens to the Stanley Cup Finals (much less winning it) since 1993.
Oh noes! The only explanation should be that management sucks. It's the only thing that makes sense! The fact that, purely on average, a team will go to the finals only once every 15 years shouldn't be taken into account in our expectations.

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10-30-2011, 05:44 PM
  #121
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Oh noes! The only explanation should be that management sucks. It's the only thing that makes sense! The fact that, purely on average, a team will go to the finals only once every 15 years shouldn't be taken into account in our expectations.
And you have made my point. Thank you.

The once mighty Canadiens, the most storied hockey franchise is a BELOW average organization (your words.....its been 18 years going on 19 for us now) that does not appear to be making a Stanley Cup final appearance in the near future based on the talent we have in this organization, compliments of Gainey and Gauthier.

For the life of me, I cannot understand how people prop up and support a GM who cannot/will not fix the needs of this team. We have bandaids on our bandaids.

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10-30-2011, 05:52 PM
  #122
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Gainey didn't "gambled" crap, he needed to trade for a top center, and ended up choosing Gomez. He needed to give assets, and he chose the worst (or at least the one who was developing the slowest) of the three defenseman he had recently drafted. It wasn't about "being patient", it was about making a deal.
When you're making a deal, you evaluate the assets you have and the assets you're getting back at the time of the trade, and try and project their worth down the road. It's always a gamble.

He gambled that McDo wouldn't match Timmin's projections and was an asset he could afford packaging for an elite center, and gambled that Gomez would go back to an elite level. He lost on both.

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10-30-2011, 06:09 PM
  #123
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Never has so much ink been spilled for an ass coach. If PG would have fired JM, the savants would have said it was justified but since he let Pearn go, the earth has now gone off its axis and he will be let go.

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10-30-2011, 06:20 PM
  #124
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how many offers Gainey had for Ribeiro??
Does Niinimaa was the only player offer for Ribs??
What Gauthier said to Gainey before this trade??


Bottom line you don't have the answer to these questions and Gainey made that trade not Gauthier.

Since Gauthier is the GM he have a good trade record
This makes no sense. If you can't get value for Ribiero, then you don't trade him. Trying to defend a bad trade on the basis that he had no better offers is non-sensical. Also, while Gainey made the trade, the director of pro scouting who's job it was to assure Gainey that Niniimaa was in fact worth adding to the roster was....?

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10-30-2011, 06:25 PM
  #125
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Never has so much ink been spilled for an ass coach. If PG would have fired JM, the savants would have said it was justified but since he let Pearn go, the earth has now gone off its axis and he will be let go.

Honestly I wonder if it isn't as simple as that the move from two assitants to three behind the bench had led to some confusion in communication during games. Someone had to go, it was Pearn. It's a bizarre move from a PR perspective, but not so much from a strictly management pov.

I suspect the fact that two new assistant coaches were brought in might, just might, have something to do with two old assistant coaches being moved out. The surprise is the second one left after the season started. The departure itself wouldn't have made waves in July.

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