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Rafael Diaz and Yannick Weber

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Old
10-30-2011, 03:17 PM
  #26
Rise from the Ashes
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I for one have been more impressed with Diaz than Weber. Diaz is much more composed and I find smarter as well. He may not be as strong as Weber, but he compensates with his incredible hockey sense.

When Marky comes back we may see both of them out of the lineup. Emelin's greatest problem is communication, that I can assure everyone. If you play him with Markov, that barrier will detoriate one step at a time.

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10-30-2011, 03:19 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by FiveForDrawingBlood View Post
I like Diaz, I think as he acclimates to the NA game will be a good one. How long do we have his rights for?
He's RFA at the year's end but that's the last year of his RFA status I think since he would have been an 04 draftee had he been drafted.

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Old
10-30-2011, 03:21 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by The Kremelin Wall View Post
He's RFA at the year's end but that's the last year of his RFA status I think since he would have been an 04 draftee had he been drafted.
I knew it wasn't going to be long because his case is similar to Mark Streit's.

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Old
10-30-2011, 03:39 PM
  #29
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If Emelin is allowed to return to Russia it'd be irreversible. I think that Gauthier would temporize by sending Diaz to Hamilton even though he's playing well. And if Markov returns in good form Campoli might be released.

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Old
10-30-2011, 03:45 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
If Emelin is allowed to return to Russia it'd be irreversible. I think that Gauthier would temporize by sending Diaz to Hamilton even though he's playing well. And if Markov returns in good form Campoli might be released.
That's the likely scenario. Nothing against Diaz. Not so sure about Campoli released though. I could see a 4th line of Moen/Noke/Weber once everyone is healthy up front/back end, and then Markov/Gorges Gill/PK Campoli/Spacek with Emelin as 7. Having 9 NHL dmen at your disposal is a luxury especially for a team so often injured, I hope they don't rush trade someone. That happened with O'Byrne and then a bunch of injuries happened.

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Old
10-30-2011, 03:54 PM
  #31
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That's the likely scenario. Nothing against Diaz. Not so sure about Campoli released though. I could see a 4th line of Moen/Noke/Weber once everyone is healthy up front/back end, and then Markov/Gorges Gill/PK Campoli/Spacek with Emelin as 7. Having 9 NHL dmen at your disposal is a luxury especially for a team so often injured, I hope they don't rush trade someone. That happened with O'Byrne and then a bunch of injuries happened.
Plus Spacek and Gill are in their last year in Hab uniforms so hopefully they get these young D enough games so they can take over next year. Who knows if Gorges will be back since he will be a UFA as well.

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Old
10-30-2011, 04:08 PM
  #32
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Overall performance;

Weber A-
Spacek B+
Subban B
Diaz B-
Gorges A-
Gill C
Emelin B

Performance based on pre-season expectation (If their grade is higher than their performance grade, I'm happy with their performance. If it's lower than their performance grade, I'm disappointed);
Weber A+
Diaz A+
Subban C
Gill D
Gorges A-
Emelin B+
Spacek A

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Old
10-30-2011, 04:37 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by torero View Post

I love my landsmen !

While he is on the exaggeration side, their lies some truth in the sense that Diaz and Weber delivered more than was expected out of them so far.
The same cannot be said about Spacek and Subban.
That's an unfair argument to make since the expections for those players were drastically different. Weber: we expected him to strengthen his defensive game while progressing offensively. Diaz: to show that he is a capable bottom-3 NHL defensemen. PK on the other hand, we expected him to continue to show that he is a legit #1 defensemen in this league.

PK may not be getting the points we expected from him so far, but in the past few games, he's been getting the toughest matchups and he's doing fine defensively.

A few notes:

- The Swiss really do remind me of the Swedes, while not always physical, they definitely have the hockey IQ to thrive in the league.

- Campoli is an interesting one. He might be entering the prime of his career, so is he a legit top-4 defensemen like the Wiz, that we should retain in order to get the best out of him for at least a year? Or a bottom pair defensemen that will be overtaken by the young Swiss duo? It's too bad he got injured so quickly, wish him a speedy recovery.

- Gill *may* end up sitting a few games with Markov and Campoli coming back, but I can't imagine him ever being sent down. The Habs have too much class to send a veteran leader to Hamilton, especially since his wife has recently given birth to a child.

- Spacek may be the odd-man out, but I've been impressed by him in the past few games, he's doing alright, especially for a team that needs experience on the blueline.


Last edited by SB164: 10-30-2011 at 04:48 PM.
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Old
10-30-2011, 04:48 PM
  #34
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That's an unfair argument to make since the expections for those players were drastically different. Weber: we expected him to strengthen his defensive game while progressing offensively. Diaz: to show that he is a capable bottom-3 NHL defensemen. PK on the other hand, we expected him to continue to show that he is a legit #1 defensemen in this league.

PK may not be getting the points we expected from him so far, but in the past few games, he's been getting the toughest matchups and he's doing fine defensively.
Yeah not like he's pulling a Bogosian or anything. He's been fine, he made mistakes and since we were losing it was magnified. Boucher Scouting shows he's actually been one of the better players most nights.

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Old
10-30-2011, 05:17 PM
  #35
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I would hope management thinks past this season and to if they plan on offering contracts to Spacek and Gill for the next season (+) and if not, I would hope they retain these three young defenders! (Weber, Emelin, Diaz)

Gorges is also a UFA at season's end, as is Campolli, so it would be really unwise to start shipping players out of Montreal right now.

Not counting the three in question, nor the four pending UFA's, all we have locked down for next year are Subban (RFA) and Markov, who hasn't played in what seems like forever!

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Old
10-30-2011, 05:17 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Overall performance;

Weber A-
Spacek B+
Subban B
Diaz B-
Gorges A-
Gill C
Emelin B

Performance based on pre-season expectation (If their grade is higher than their performance grade, I'm happy with their performance. If it's lower than their performance grade, I'm disappointed);
Weber A+
Diaz A+
Subban C
Gill D
Gorges A-
Emelin B+
Spacek A
Couldn't have ranked it any better myself.

I'm hoping the PP points will look like this in a month:

Subban-Markov
Weber-Diaz

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Old
10-30-2011, 05:22 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Habs13 View Post
I would hope management thinks past this season and to if they plan on offering contracts to Spacek and Gill for the next season (+) and if not, I would hope they retain these three young defenders! (Weber, Emelin, Diaz)

Gorges is also a UFA at season's end, as is Campolli, so it would be really unwise to start shipping players out of Montreal right now.

Not counting the three in question, nor the four pending UFA's, all we have locked down for next year are Subban (RFA) and Markov, who hasn't played in what seems like forever!
The future of our blueline is set, one way or another. With the depth that PG has managed to bring over and the unfortunate injuries suffered by some our veterans we have given our young depth a chance to show us what they can do.

We have ample time to evaluate our talent young & old, and to decide the best course of action in that regard. I am confident that come trade deadline a lot things will be sorted out and we have a clearer picture of where the blueline is headed going into next season.

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Old
10-30-2011, 05:57 PM
  #38
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Both players have been useful, but I don't know that either of them is built to handle top 4 duties. IMO Weber will end up being the more valuable 3rd pairing dman. I think he will continue to improve on the PP. I don't see quite the same offensive flair in Diaz's game. Even though Diaz is more reliable right now, I think Weber can fill a specific role that is worth more wins.

BTW, I'm surprised to see the negativity towards Campoli in this thread. He would probably be #3 on our depth chart right now if healthy, IMO. I can't see him being scratched when he's ready to play, regardless of who else is healthy.

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Old
10-30-2011, 05:58 PM
  #39
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Yeah not like he's pulling a Bogosian or anything. He's been fine, he made mistakes and since we were losing it was magnified. Boucher Scouting shows he's actually been one of the better players most nights.
Oliver's scoring chances shows this even better. When Subban is on the ice the Habs severely outchance their opponents, far more than any other Habs blueliner (Gorges has gotten close since he started playing with PK). Subban is terrific at getting the team to control the puck when he's on the ice, given time for his fortune to even out that's going to result in a good plus minus.

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Old
10-30-2011, 06:20 PM
  #40
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Weber and Diaz have played really well. Diaz is a surprise, Weber I knew could play strong hockey in the NHL.

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Old
10-30-2011, 09:01 PM
  #41
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If I was to pick between Diaz and Weber, well Weber's my man!
If I would put a grade on our D it would look like this:

Gill:C+ just his typical season debut and at best working the PK and 15-18min man
Subban:C+ Trying to do to much but a C simply cause he raised the expectation 25min man
Gorges:B+ could be an A but with that big turnover vs the leafa....grrrr
Weber:B- surprised and happy, could be stronger defensively but IS improving.
Diaz:C- is very skill with the puck but has been exposed defensively
Spacek:I wont rate him but really looks better this season with his reads and positioning, solid!
Campoli was 2 period fresh...
Yemelin:I can't rate him given the situation, the guys clearly has the skills, he just can't communicate at all with the coaching staff.

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Old
10-30-2011, 09:32 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by otto bond View Post
If I was to pick between Diaz and Weber, well Weber's my man!
If I would put a grade on our D it would look like this:

Gill:C+ just his typical season debut and at best working the PK and 15-18min man
Subban:C+ Trying to do to much but a C simply cause he raised the expectation 25min man
Gorges:B+ could be an A but with that big turnover vs the leafa....grrrr
Weber:B- surprised and happy, could be stronger defensively but IS improving.
Diaz:C- is very skill with the puck but has been exposed defensively
Spacek:I wont rate him but really looks better this season with his reads and positioning, solid!
Campoli was 2 period fresh...
Yemelin:I can't rate him given the situation, the guys clearly has the skills, he just can't communicate at all with the coaching staff.
I don't see how Gill has been better than Diaz. Or how Gill is only slight worse than Weber.

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Old
10-30-2011, 09:35 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by FiveForDrawingBlood View Post
I like Diaz, I think as he acclimates to the NA game will be a good one. How long do we have his rights for?
RFA next year

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Old
10-30-2011, 09:36 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by LeMAD View Post

Q: if Diaz gets sent down does he has to go through waivers?
no he doesn't

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Old
10-30-2011, 09:49 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
I don't see how Gill has been better than Diaz. Or how Gill is only slight worse than Weber.
Gill has been our worst Dman by far.

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Old
10-30-2011, 10:50 PM
  #46
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Gill has been our worst Dman by far.
It' all about timing for this guy's game and he's getting there. Always has a slow start but makes up for it come crunched time.
I rated him better then Diaz because IMO, he's been better then Diaz in his owed end. Slightly less good then Weber cause of his offense. The guy has been better.

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Old
10-30-2011, 11:01 PM
  #47
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It' all about timing for this guy's game and he's getting there. Always has a slow start but makes up for it come crunched time.
I rated him better then Diaz because IMO, he's been better then Diaz in his owed end. Slightly less good then Weber cause of his offense. The guy has been better.
Sure, and hopefully Gill is better mid-season. Right now, he's the worst player on the team.

Team high 14-giveaways (Subban has 13). I know thats a "iffy" stat, but if you have a lot more than anyone else, it's probably because you give the puck away more.

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Old
10-30-2011, 11:01 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
I don't see how Gill has been better than Diaz. Or how Gill is only slight worse than Weber.
Well I was thinking about it and decided to base my rating on a depth system.
An A or B could mean a top 4 spot and C or D for bottom pairing or AHL.
Weber has played extremely well the past 4 or 5 games. After a shake start, he really has put it together. Over all, he's one of our top 4 today!
Diaz is border line AHL-NHL. the guy has skills with the puck and can move the puck up ice real nice but it's his defensive coverage that lacks.I can see him playing a PP role in the future. bottom pairing level now
Gill has struggle like he always does early on. He's been around and still kills penalties with the best of them and is ideal for bottom pairing due to his character and experienced.

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Old
10-30-2011, 11:01 PM
  #49
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Gill has been our worst Dman by far.
that's the sad truth. i'll chalk it to one of his infamous slow start, but rarely have i seen gill looking so lost in his own zone. and on top of that, sooooo many turn overs and tape to tape pass to.... the bad guys.

i have confidence he'll up his game and that he'll be money by season's end, but right, it's painful to watch

as for the swiss, love both. diaz, by virtue of being older, is more responsible in his own zone and has better vision (but not by much), but if i had to chose, i'd pick weber now simply because he's more physical and has a bomb of a shot. thing is though, i can absolutely see diaz eventually take his spot. he's improving from game to game. he needs to bulk up and start shoving people, this isn't the swiss league

when our d clicks though, it's quite astounding how the puck is deep down low and boom, all of a sudden youre in the other guy's zone. love it

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Old
10-30-2011, 11:04 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by otto bond View Post
Well I was thinking about it and decided to base my rating on a depth system.
An A or B could mean a top 4 spot and C or D for bottom pairing or AHL.
Weber has played extremely well the past 4 or 5 games. After a shake start, he really has put it together. Over all, he's one of our top 4 today!
Diaz is border line AHL-NHL. the guy has skills with the puck and can move the puck up ice real nice but it's his defensive coverage that lacks.I can see him playing a PP role in the future. bottom pairing level now
Gill has struggle like he always does early on. He's been around and still kills penalties with the best of them and is ideal for bottom pairing due to his character and experienced.
That makes no sense.

Diaz actually has more ES TOI than Weber. He's 3rd on the team behind Subban & Gorges. Weber is 4th.

Diaz
15:16 TOI (ES)
18:19 TOI (OV)

Weber
14:43 TOI (ES)
20:12 TOI (OV)

TOI per game, they are both Top-4 defenseman. They rank 3rd and 4th respectively, on our club. Gill, Spacek, and Emelin are all under 18-minutes.

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