HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Rafael Diaz and Yannick Weber

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-30-2011, 11:07 PM
  #51
Hackett
HF Needs Feeny
 
Hackett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,384
vCash: 500
I would not say gill has been the worst d-man. He's been exposed a few times, but he's still one the few d-men on our team who can seperate the man from the puck in the trenches.

I've been impressed with diaz's offensive instincts but you can see that he still struggles with how quick things happens especially in his own zone... understandable.

Weber is taking on his role as best as he can. He doesnt have my complete faith, but at the end of the day, his stats dont look bad. I'd like to see more composure out of him... I dont know if he has it in him.

Hackett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-30-2011, 11:07 PM
  #52
otto bond
Registered User
 
otto bond's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,851
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
that's the sad truth. i'll chalk it to one of his infamous slow start, but rarely have i seen gill looking so lost in his own zone. and on top of that, sooooo many turn overs and tape to tape pass to.... the bad guys.

i have confidence he'll up his game and that he'll be money by season's end, but right, it's painful to watch

as for the swiss, love both. diaz, by virtue of being older, is more responsible in his own zone and has better vision (but not by much), but if i had to chose, i'd pick weber now simply because he's more physical and has a bomb of a shot. thing is though, i can absolutely see diaz eventually take his spot. he's improving from game to game. he needs to bulk up and start shoving people, this isn't the swiss league

when our d clicks though, it's quite astounding how the puck is deep down low and boom, all of a sudden youre in the other guy's zone. love it
There was no support early on. He's been better and once his ice time get's cut to 15ish minutes but a key minutes, he will be better.

otto bond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-30-2011, 11:08 PM
  #53
otto bond
Registered User
 
otto bond's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,851
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
I would not say gill has been the worst d-man. He's been exposed a few times, but he's still one the few d-men on our team who can seperate the man from the puck in the trenches.

I've been impressed with diaz's offensive instincts but you can see that he still struggles with how quick things happens especially in his own zone... understandable.

Weber is taking on his role as best as he can. He doesnt have my complete faith, but at the end of the day, his stats dont look bad. I'd like to see more composure out of him... I dont know if he has it in him.
spot on!

Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
That makes no sense.

Diaz actually has more ES TOI than Weber. He's 3rd on the team behind Subban & Gorges. Weber is 4th.

Diaz
15:16 TOI (ES)
18:19 TOI (OV)

Weber
14:43 TOI (ES)
20:12 TOI (OV)

TOI per game, they are both Top-4 defenseman. They rank 3rd and 4th respectively, on our club. Gill, Spacek, and Emelin are all under 18-minutes.
Well I wasn't really looking at these stats. Diaz has played alot with Gill in ES so that could explane the average. Weber has more PP time and to me needed less help defensively then DIaz(wich explane the pairing with Gill was done by JM)

otto bond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-30-2011, 11:16 PM
  #54
Koivu2001
Registered User
 
Koivu2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Ecuador
Posts: 561
vCash: 350
Diaz should go down to the ahl and learn how to play defence, the guy reminds me of brisebooois, hes alright on the pp but man that defence...

Koivu2001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-30-2011, 11:19 PM
  #55
LaurentHabs
Galchenyuk2Collberg
 
LaurentHabs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,459
vCash: 500
Had this debate with myself too... I believe everyone is NHL Calibre. Emelin inclusively. So basically, if everyone is healthy we are looking at this...

Chris Campoli || Alexei Emelin || Andrei Markov || Raphael Diaz || Yannick Weber || PK Subban || Josh Gorges || Hal Gill || Jaroslav Spacek.

Now; Nobody Would trade for Campoli; nobody signed him, meaning no significant interest. Yes, things can change Mid-Season with teams looking for depth; still isn't a done deal...

I can't see the Habs sending Emelin back to Russia. With all the hard work they put in to get him here; I just can't conceive sending him back.

Weber officially proved hes a NHL Defenceman, and Powerplay guy. Not a 4th liner on the point for the PP.

Diaz has proved hes able to play in the NHL and especially move the puck... Now yes, he isn't the best decision taker on the defense; but if Bergeron played on our D, Diaz should be able aswell.

Spacek & Gill; right now, are somewhat important to our team, both in different aspects.

Markov, PK, Gorges; Do I need to explain why we need them

So thats basically my way of thinking things; anyone else object to this? Cause if what I'm telling myself is logical and somewhat right... The Habs will have somewhat of a nice problem in their hands

LaurentHabs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-30-2011, 11:28 PM
  #56
Halifaxhab*
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,219
vCash: 500
I believe Emelin and Diaz should be platooned. Meaning, depending on the team they play, if more offence is needed, put in Diaz, if more size and toughness, Emelin....but I feel Emelin has a good 1st pass, but he lacks that extra offensive dimention that Diaz has. All in all, we have alot of up and coming youth.....and that has been the problem on the D. Too much yount and INEXPERIENCE, causing too many problems in our zone

Halifaxhab* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-30-2011, 11:54 PM
  #57
ChoseLa
Registered User
 
ChoseLa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Country: Martinique
Posts: 4,247
vCash: 500
Diaz is realy impressive, he plays a pro game but he would"ve benefited from playing in the NHL at the begining of season for sure. I just hope Emelin will have a chance to prove himself. Even after all the lost games he hasn't got a chance to prove himself. I just hope he doesn't become the next OB and has 10 games in the season (not defending OB here).

ChoseLa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2011, 12:20 AM
  #58
Gabe84
Bring back Bonk!
 
Gabe84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Montreal, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,356
vCash: 500
Give Diaz some time to work on his game in the NHL. The guy has shown some very good instincts, and he can build on this. I feel these guys--Weber, Diaz, Emelin--all possess the basic qualities you want in a player. They have what can't be taught. Now, it's just a matter of teaching them how to either use their bodies to play defense, or in Diaz' case, use his stick to break the play. Lidstrom has shown us one thing in his long career: you don't need to play physical to be an elite defenseman. If you play smart positionally and if you know how to poke check the puck/remove the passing lane, you are fine.

The Canadiens can win games with those young guys in the line-up. But if they develop their games, adapt to the pace and develop some defensive strategies on top of what they have right now, I feel they can be dominant. At least one of them will be. So my wish is that we give them all the time to learn and become better. We will very happy we did.

Gabe84 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2011, 01:17 AM
  #59
capebretoncanadien
Registered User
 
capebretoncanadien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,091
vCash: 500
Great little mobile smart guys love em!!

You people need to realize that Zdeno Chara burned Skillz last night down the wing..........ZDENO....freaking....Chara. Burned him!! Boston scored shortly after.....

capebretoncanadien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2011, 07:34 AM
  #60
CGG
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 416
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,234
vCash: 500
Emelin, Diaz and Weber all need to be kept. Anyone suggesting the team trades one of them is crazy.

Gill - UFA at year end, likely won't be back.
Spacek - UFA at year end, almost certainly won't be back.
Gorges - UFA at year end, hopefully will be back but no guarantee
Campoli - UFA at year end, who knows.

We could be left with Markov, Subban, Emelin, Diaz and Weber. Trading one of those 5 would be a terrible, terrible move. Think past this season. Assume there will be injuries going forward as well.

We have a few more months before everyone is healthy. When Markov comes back, carry 8 D. When Campoli comes back, you might be forced to ship Diaz to Hamilton. He probably doesn't deserve it, but it's better long term than trading someone.

If all 9 D are healthy and playing well, and you absolutely have to get rid of someone, trade Campoli. People are saying that no one will want him, which is of course plain wrong as teams always scoop up excess defensemen at the trade deadline. PG would have no problem finding a home for him due to his cheap contract.

Next Season:

Markov-Subban
Gorges-Weber
Emelin-Diaz

Add a vetern guy who can play # 4 minutes and we're set.

CGG is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2011, 08:17 AM
  #61
torero
Registered User
 
torero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Border of lake Leman
Country: Switzerland
Posts: 3,160
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CGG View Post
Emelin, Diaz and Weber all need to be kept. Anyone suggesting the team trades one of them is crazy.

Gill - UFA at year end, likely won't be back.
Spacek - UFA at year end, almost certainly won't be back.
Gorges - UFA at year end, hopefully will be back but no guarantee
Campoli - UFA at year end, who knows.

We could be left with Markov, Subban, Emelin, Diaz and Weber. Trading one of those 5 would be a terrible, terrible move. Think past this season. Assume there will be injuries going forward as well.

We have a few more months before everyone is healthy. When Markov comes back, carry 8 D. When Campoli comes back, you might be forced to ship Diaz to Hamilton. He probably doesn't deserve it, but it's better long term than trading someone.

If all 9 D are healthy and playing well, and you absolutely have to get rid of someone, trade Campoli. People are saying that no one will want him, which is of course plain wrong as teams always scoop up excess defensemen at the trade deadline. PG would have no problem finding a home for him due to his cheap contract.

Next Season:

Markov-Subban
Gorges-Weber
Emelin-Diaz

Add a vetern guy who can play # 4 minutes and we're set.
And do not forget :

Weber.....850'000
Diaz........900'000
Emelin .....984'000
++
Gill........2'250'000
Spaceck ..3'833'000
Gorges ..2'500'000
Campoli...1'750'000

in other words for Gill, you have 0.85 (Weber+Diaz+Emelin), or for Spaceck you have (Weber+Diaz+Emelin) + 1'100'000 approx.

fig. come from http://capgeek.com/charts.php?Team=2

+++

And by the way, watching at this chart ... while outside of topic, i would seriously question Gomez !! but who would want him ?
showcase him a little and try to sell him the remainder of the contract for a 5mio a year !! if you can !

torero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2011, 08:24 AM
  #62
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 30,407
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaurentHabs View Post
Had this debate with myself too... I believe everyone is NHL Calibre. Emelin inclusively. So basically, if everyone is healthy we are looking at this...

Chris Campoli || Alexei Emelin || Andrei Markov || Raphael Diaz || Yannick Weber || PK Subban || Josh Gorges || Hal Gill || Jaroslav Spacek.

Now; Nobody Would trade for Campoli; nobody signed him, meaning no significant interest. Yes, things can change Mid-Season with teams looking for depth; still isn't a done deal...

I can't see the Habs sending Emelin back to Russia. With all the hard work they put in to get him here; I just can't conceive sending him back.

Weber officially proved hes a NHL Defenceman, and Powerplay guy. Not a 4th liner on the point for the PP.

Diaz has proved hes able to play in the NHL and especially move the puck... Now yes, he isn't the best decision taker on the defense; but if Bergeron played on our D, Diaz should be able aswell.

Spacek & Gill; right now, are somewhat important to our team, both in different aspects.

Markov, PK, Gorges; Do I need to explain why we need them

So thats basically my way of thinking things; anyone else object to this? Cause if what I'm telling myself is logical and somewhat right... The Habs will have somewhat of a nice problem in their hands
Why would nobody want Campoli? That's a ridiculous assumption.

If that was the case he would have cost a lot less than 1.75 mil, plus he wouldn't have gotten traded for a 2nd rounder last year. One of the reasons he didn't have a lot of teams after him was because he became available in August after most teams spent their budget/cap room...how is that so difficult a concept to understand?

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2011, 08:37 AM
  #63
Patty Roy
Registered User
 
Patty Roy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,721
vCash: 500
I would hate to lose any of these guys for nothing.

If we are ever blessed with a healthy lineup, i see the following:

Markov-Subban
Campoli-Weber
Gill-Gorges
Spacek/Emelin

Diaz down to Hamilton. He can develop his game down there, play huge minutes and have a legit chance to be in our top 6 next season.

Ideally i would also send Emelin down, but i wouldn't want to risk him bolting. If he was interested in going to the AHL then great, otherwise keep him around and try to get him into the lineup here and there.

Patty Roy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2011, 08:45 AM
  #64
Ozymandias
#firetherrien
 
Ozymandias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hockey Mecca
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,441
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CGG View Post
Emelin, Diaz and Weber all need to be kept. Anyone suggesting the team trades one of them is crazy.
Actually, no. Because one might suggest to trade one of either Diaz or Weber, for, wait for it, wait for it.... a defenseman. That's crazy, right?

Truth is, we're kinda extremely buttery super soft on the right side other than Subban, and he's no towering giant to start with. And the left side ain't that much better.

With Gill and Spacek eventually leaving, we'll need to strenghten the left side too.

If crazy is to be able to understand true necessity, well then I'm due to go to Louis H.

Ozymandias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2011, 09:08 AM
  #65
The Kremelin Wall*
the krEMELIN wall
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,769
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Actually, no. Because one might suggest to trade one of either Diaz or Weber, for, wait for it, wait for it.... a defenseman. That's crazy, right?

Truth is, we're kinda extremely buttery super soft on the right side other than Subban, and he's no towering giant to start with. And the left side ain't that much better.

With Gill and Spacek eventually leaving, we'll need to strenghten the left side too.

If crazy is to be able to understand true necessity, well then I'm due to go to Louis H.
Emelin is less soft than Subban and doesn't take the boneheaded penalties that Subban does. Emelin hits and shot blocks and clears the crease. He's is exactly what the lineup is missing and it really seems strange not to play him, even if the reason is communication.

The Kremelin Wall* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2011, 09:16 AM
  #66
Teufelsdreck
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 14,195
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by torero View Post

I love my landsmen !

While he is on the exaggeration side, their lies some truth in the sense that Diaz and Weber delivered more than was expected out of them so far.
The same cannot be said about Spacek and Subban.

And about their respective potential, Weber and Diaz have more potential for improvement than Spacek or Subban.

I am not saying that Weber and Diaz are better than Subban or Spaceck, nor am I saying that both (Diaz & Weber) have more absolute upside potential yet both have more relative upside than Subban or Spaceck.

In other words, the stock of Diaz and Weber is more interesting to hold than the stock of Spaceck or Subban.

IMO Weber is near his ceiling. I can't predict how high Diaz will go. Spacek used to be very good when he was younger. Subban could go very high but he hasn't been doing his homework and even his most ardent admirers have to admit he's having a disappointing season so far.

Teufelsdreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2011, 09:26 AM
  #67
otto bond
Registered User
 
otto bond's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,851
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Kremelin Wall View Post
Emelin is less soft than Subban and doesn't take the boneheaded penalties that Subban does. Emelin hits and shot blocks and clears the crease. He's is exactly what the lineup is missing and it really seems strange not to play him, even if the reason is communication.
The problem with Emelin is the communication IMO. Kind of hard to direct someone with limited English. Maybe once Markov's back, they are paired together and it makes the difference.

Going forward once Markov is back I could see this:

Emelin-Markov
Subban-Gorges
Weber-Gill/Spacek

otto bond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2011, 11:28 AM
  #68
torero
Registered User
 
torero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Border of lake Leman
Country: Switzerland
Posts: 3,160
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
IMO Weber is near his ceiling. I can't predict how high Diaz will go. Spacek used to be very good when he was younger. Subban could go very high but he hasn't been doing his homework and even his most ardent admirers have to admit he's having a disappointing season so far.
Weber use to be the star of tomorow at the Kitchener Rangers ...Therefore i do not agree with you. I believe that, as a cerebral guy, he'll need more time ... i see his ceiling much higher than where he is now. (a la Steit) as a legit top 4 !

Subban ... has not been doing his homework !! 5/5 agree with you !

Remember that at the time, both Weber and Subban were on the same level. The habs were even counting on Weber to replace Streit on the PP ! (when Streit left, MTL went from among the first teams to among the last teams in PP efficiency) Carboneau was high on Weber, he was thinking that Weber had high play making and sniping potential. (as a junior he ended up having the best shot)

It just takes more time to develop such a player and, actually 2 years ago, while Subban exploded, Weber disapointed. Last year Weber was ok in AHL and had a shot in NHL but carrying the tag of "le jeuuuunne Wbre" while having the same age than Subban.

The Subban lovers were right, and the Weber lovers were wrong. Maybe the game is not over !! and while Subban has a great potential as an instinctive player, Weber has also a great potential but as a cerebral player. Brain takes longer to develop than instinct.

my 10cts idea

torero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2011, 11:48 AM
  #69
The Kremelin Wall*
the krEMELIN wall
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,769
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by torero View Post
Weber use to be the star of tomorow at the Kitchener Rangers ...Therefore i do not agree with you. I believe that, as a cerebral guy, he'll need more time ... i see his ceiling much higher than where he is now. (a la Steit) as a legit top 4 !

Subban ... has not been doing his homework !! 5/5 agree with you !

Remember that at the time, both Weber and Subban were on the same level. The habs were even counting on Weber to replace Streit on the PP ! (when Streit left, MTL went from among the first teams to among the last teams in PP efficiency) Carboneau was high on Weber, he was thinking that Weber had high play making and sniping potential. (as a junior he ended up having the best shot)

It just takes more time to develop such a player and, actually 2 years ago, while Subban exploded, Weber disapointed. Last year Weber was ok in AHL and had a shot in NHL but carrying the tag of "le jeuuuunne Wbre" while having the same age than Subban.

The Subban lovers were right, and the Weber lovers were wrong. Maybe the game is not over !! and while Subban has a great potential as an instinctive player, Weber has also a great potential but as a cerebral player. Brain takes longer to develop than instinct.

my 10cts idea
As much as I like Weber he has zero chance to ever be as good as Subban. Subban is good now playing against opposing #1 lines at 24 minutes at night. Weber's max upside at this point I believe is a number 3 with first PP unit time. Maybe a number two if he's paired with a #1 who is great at defense. Weber won't ever be the go to guy in every situation on the ice like Subban is.

The Kremelin Wall* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2011, 11:51 AM
  #70
Marchy79
Registered User
 
Marchy79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Barrie
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,915
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by torero View Post
Weber use to be the star of tomorow at the Kitchener Rangers ...Therefore i do not agree with you. I believe that, as a cerebral guy, he'll need more time ... i see his ceiling much higher than where he is now. (a la Steit) as a legit top 4 !

Subban ... has not been doing his homework !! 5/5 agree with you !

Remember that at the time, both Weber and Subban were on the same level. The habs were even counting on Weber to replace Streit on the PP ! (when Streit left, MTL went from among the first teams to among the last teams in PP efficiency) Carboneau was high on Weber, he was thinking that Weber had high play making and sniping potential. (as a junior he ended up having the best shot)

It just takes more time to develop such a player and, actually 2 years ago, while Subban exploded, Weber disapointed. Last year Weber was ok in AHL and had a shot in NHL but carrying the tag of "le jeuuuunne Wbre" while having the same age than Subban.

The Subban lovers were right, and the Weber lovers were wrong. Maybe the game is not over !! and while Subban has a great potential as an instinctive player, Weber has also a great potential but as a cerebral player. Brain takes longer to develop than instinct.

my 10cts idea
The OHL is chalk full of stories like Yanic Weber. It's a big thing he's even making it as a regular to be honest.

I remember a guy from Barrie, his name was Eric Reitz... The guy was a beast. High scoring defenceman, voted the best shot in the eastern conference (of the OHL) defenceman of the year, and was a huge hitter. He got drafted to Minnesota, and never panned out... Dan Tkachuk (another Colt) was expected to be the next Joe Sakic (and subsequently drafted 6th overall by Calgary) He got 19 games in, and 11 points... Then the headshot came that ended it all for him. He was never the same. I think he's somewhere over in Italy right now.

Subban will be the more serious defenceman. The guy has all the skills of Weber, and then some. Perhaps he's not as Cerebral, but he has 100X the drive. I watched PK Subban coming up with Belleville, a few times (watching him back then was very magnetic).

Subban had a drive... honestly, I have NEVER seen another player WANT to be on the ice as BADLY as him. Never. He was so adament about being the difference maker, and literally, he changed momentum on a dime. In short... Subban is a style of defenceman, that an entire NEW class of defencemen will eventually follow behind.

Weber will always need to have support, simply because he does NOT have the body, or the gamemanship to play sound defensively. Subban is working to become the first ever Jack of all trades, MASTER of all.

Marchy79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2011, 11:59 AM
  #71
habitue*
 
habitue*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,252
vCash: 500
When was the last time the Habs had a 100% healthy D-Corp ?


They could have 9 NHL capable d-men, but I am pretty sure they won't be all healthy at the same time.

The Habs are gonna keep 8, anyway.+ 1 extra forward.

habitue* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2011, 12:14 PM
  #72
Marchy79
Registered User
 
Marchy79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Barrie
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,915
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by habitue View Post
When was the last time the Habs had a 100% healthy D-Corp ?


They could have 9 NHL capable d-men, but I am pretty sure they won't be all healthy at the same time.

The Habs are gonna keep 8, anyway.+ 1 extra forward.
Just guessing... but 01-02???

I distinctly remember hoping for an injury (Traverse, Dykhuis etc.) while we had soome very good prospects in the minors (Hainsey, or Komisarek... it's a vague memory now) that would be exciting to have given a chance to... That's my guess though.

I remember we couldnt BUY an injury that year lol

Marchy79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2011, 12:30 PM
  #73
ECWHSWI
5M? insulting!!!
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 15,200
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost # 1 View Post
The OHL is chalk full of stories like Yanic Weber. It's a big thing he's even making it as a regular to be honest.

I remember a guy from Barrie, his name was Eric Reitz... The guy was a beast. High scoring defenceman, voted the best shot in the eastern conference (of the OHL) defenceman of the year, and was a huge hitter. He got drafted to Minnesota, and never panned out... Dan Tkachuk (another Colt) was expected to be the next Joe Sakic (and subsequently drafted 6th overall by Calgary) He got 19 games in, and 11 points... Then the headshot came that ended it all for him. He was never the same. I think he's somewhere over in Italy right now.

Subban will be the more serious defenceman. The guy has all the skills of Weber, and then some. Perhaps he's not as Cerebral, but he has 100X the drive. I watched PK Subban coming up with Belleville, a few times (watching him back then was very magnetic).

Subban had a drive... honestly, I have NEVER seen another player WANT to be on the ice as BADLY as him. Never. He was so adament about being the difference maker, and literally, he changed momentum on a dime. In short... Subban is a style of defenceman, that an entire NEW class of defencemen will eventually follow behind.

Weber will always need to have support, simply because he does NOT have the body, or the gamemanship to play sound defensively. Subban is working to become the first ever Jack of all trades, MASTER of all.
actually, the examples you gave are saying the opposite... a few failures (for whatever reason) vs Weber who played half the season or so last year and is starting his first full this year... while being decent defensively and good offensively...

ECWHSWI is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2011, 12:46 PM
  #74
Marchy79
Registered User
 
Marchy79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Barrie
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,915
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
actually, the examples you gave are saying the opposite... a few failures (for whatever reason) vs Weber who played half the season or so last year and is starting his first full this year... while being decent defensively and good offensively...
??? What I am saying is that those guys had star potential written all over them, and they fell apart, or fell short when given the chances...

For other references, on Barrie, there's Volchkov (Barrie's first superstar, drafted by Washington, and went back to Russia, cause he wasnt making it here) Dennis Shvidki (from their first memorial cup run, he was a high grade sniper, first rounder for Florida... Had size, speed and skill... I think his career total is 12 games.

Other guys who had promise, and lots of believers, were Skoula (best of the lot,but in Barrie, he was expected to be an all-star NHL defenceman), Sheldon Keefe, Mike Danton (who was Mike Jefferson back then). They were part of that great team they iced about a decade ago.

Or how about one of the more tragic OHL flops of all time? Brian Fogarty. The guy was expected to be the next Bobby Orr. He even made the really bad Nordique team @ 18. He developed a drinking problem, and busted out, before being found dead in his home. If I remember, it was a drinking related death.

What I am saying is that there were a whole lot of sure fire NHL'ers, and even potential stars... In truth, the fact that he made it as an NHL regular is a great thing for his career. If he's rounding in to form... That's great. But I have to agree that he's rounding in to his peak form, and wont be much more than what we see now. He's had a heck of a time trying to establish himself as a defenceman. IMO he'll get to perhaps a top 4 (second pairing d-man) with support with him.
His defence is still suspect, yes he's playing well... He's played well in spurts before. He's gotta keep it up for much longer than he has to date before he can be said that he is a top 4 defenceman.

Marchy79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2011, 12:50 PM
  #75
ECWHSWI
5M? insulting!!!
 
ECWHSWI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 15,200
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost # 1 View Post
??? What I am saying is that those guys had star potential written all over them, and they fell apart, or fell short when given the chances...

For other references, on Barrie, there's Volchkov (Barrie's first superstar, drafted by Washington, and went back to Russia, cause he wasnt making it here) Dennis Shvidki (from their first memorial cup run, he was a high grade sniper, first rounder for Florida... Had size, speed and skill... I think his career total is 12 games.

Other guys who had promise, and lots of believers, were Skoula (best of the lot,but in Barrie, he was expected to be an all-star NHL defenceman), Sheldon Keefe, Mike Danton (who was Mike Jefferson back then). They were part of that great team they iced about a decade ago.

Or how about one of the more tragic OHL flops of all time? Brian Fogarty. The guy was expected to be the next Bobby Orr. He even made the really bad Nordique team @ 18. He developed a drinking problem, and busted out, before being found dead in his home. If I remember, it was a drinking related death.

What I am saying is that there were a whole lot of sure fire NHL'ers, and even potential stars... In truth, the fact that he made it as an NHL regular is a great thing for his career. If he's rounding in to form... That's great. But I have to agree that he's rounding in to his peak form, and wont be much more than what we see now. He's had a heck of a time trying to establish himself as a defenceman. IMO he'll get to perhaps a top 4 (second pairing d-man) with support with him.
His defence is still suspect, yes he's playing well... He's played well in spurts before. He's gotta keep it up for much longer than he has to date before he can be said that he is a top 4 defenceman.
huh... the guy's 23 and starting his FIRST full season...

ECWHSWI is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:27 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.