HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Los Angeles Kings
Notices

#11 Kings @ Avalanche 10/30/11 - POST GAME LOSS THOUGHTS & TIDBITS

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-31-2011, 12:38 PM
  #76
Stupid Sexy Flanders
Registered User
 
Stupid Sexy Flanders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,409
vCash: 500
When some of us were preparing for Doughty to hold out, everyone said "don't worry". The 3 points lost this weekend were *exactly* what I was worried about.

I expect we'll be fighting for 6-8th just like the last 2 years. Hopefully we get in. After that anything can happen.

Stupid Sexy Flanders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2011, 12:50 PM
  #77
yankeeking
Registered User
 
yankeeking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,651
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pucknut50 View Post
I finally hit the wall. I have been watching the Kings since 1971. I pretty much saw every game I could, but this year I've lost interest in the team. The game has become very sterile no emotion. I see very little effort out there on both sides. I will come back for the playoffs but regular no thank you. 40 years of following the team very sad day for me. Good luck guys.
Completely understand bro it seems that we have one of those mid 80's teams instead of the contending team we thought we were getting ,at least early this year. In case you haven't notice or maybe I am missing their posting but we seem to have lost some long time fans in guys like Diehard and Zad also, we were expecting to come out with 2 solid lines in the top six and so far it has been somewhat dissapointing their even strenght approach is the same as when we had only 1-2 top six quality players, when TM was hired we were pretty sure he was the guy to teach the young team to play and then when they were developed we would go with a top coach to take them to the promise land and thats what this season will determine I hope. One thing you might want to avoid though is being the Don Mattingly of the fan base in being there for all the years of BS and then the year after he hangs it up they start a decade long run to 5 championships, been here myself since 73 qand understand either way but just think of how good it will be when they start running off 5-6 wins in a row when the chemistry finally sets in because I am telling myself that the vanilla play so far is because they are still thinking and not reacting to each other (SEE BROWN )

yankeeking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2011, 12:52 PM
  #78
Buddy The Elf
Kings!
 
Buddy The Elf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Belmont Shore
Country: United States
Posts: 9,697
vCash: 500
Go Kings!

EDIT: In case you guys don't have access to NHL.com, I just checked and the Kings are actually in 4th place in the Western Conference. Good riddance. I never understand why people need to announce to a bunch of strangers that they are done following the team for whatever reason. You really don't owe us an explanation.


Last edited by Buddy The Elf: 10-31-2011 at 12:58 PM.
Buddy The Elf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2011, 12:58 PM
  #79
KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
 
KINGS17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 15,547
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by yankeeking View Post
Completely understand bro it seems that we have one of those mid 80's teams instead of the contending team we thought we were getting ,at least early this year. In case you haven't notice or maybe I am missing their posting but we seem to have lost some long time fans in guys like Diehard and Zad also, we were expecting to come out with 2 solid lines in the top six and so far it has been somewhat dissapointing their even strenght approach is the same as when we had only 1-2 top six quality players, when TM was hired we were pretty sure he was the guy to teach the young team to play and then when they were developed we would go with a top coach to take them to the promise land and thats what this season will determine I hope. One thing you might want to avoid though is being the Don Mattingly of the fan base in being there for all the years of BS and then the year after he hangs it up they start a decade long run to 5 championships, been here myself since 73 qand understand either way but just think of how good it will be when they start running off 5-6 wins in a row when the chemistry finally sets in because I am telling myself that the vanilla play so far is because they are still thinking and not reacting to each other (SEE BROWN )
Diehard and Zad are definitely still Kings' fans. They just don't have the time to come in here like they did before.

You know Zad has his own blog about the Kings, right?

Which top coach that is available would you suggest? I know that TM isn't the most dynamic personality, but I think that prior to this season he is exactly what the young players needed. A coach that stresses fundamentals and never lets them get too high or too low.

KINGS17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2011, 01:04 PM
  #80
Muzzinga
Regehr GOAT
 
Muzzinga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,875
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stupid Sexy Flanders View Post
When some of us were preparing for Doughty to hold out, everyone said "don't worry". The 3 points lost this weekend were *exactly* what I was worried about.

I expect we'll be fighting for 6-8th just like the last 2 years. Hopefully we get in. After that anything can happen.
i expect a 4th/5th finish, I dont see us beating the Sharks for the pacific, just because they are built for reg season play.

People always overlook the fact that there are lots of good teams in the west, good teams miss the playoffs each year, so just scraping in in 7th takes a lot of work

Muzzinga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2011, 01:12 PM
  #81
Bandit
Registered User
 
Bandit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 5,436
vCash: 500
I'm not sure I get the sentiment that it's "the same old Terry Murray hockey." Are you guys not noticing all the 3 on 2's we're giving up because our forwards are caught up ice trying to forecheck more aggressively?

Bandit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2011, 01:17 PM
  #82
Josh Deitell
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Josh Deitell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 3,209
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandit View Post
I'm not sure I get the sentiment that it's "the same old Terry Murray hockey." Are you guys not noticing all the 3 on 2's we're giving up because our forwards are caught up ice trying to forecheck more aggressively?
We got burned a lot last night. The coaching adjustment last night was the right one, that you need to up the pressure to stop the Avs in their own zone to prevent them from picking up speed thru center ice, but too many times I saw forwards go for an all or nothing poke check or hit and an Av fly by unmolested.

Josh Deitell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2011, 01:27 PM
  #83
Bandit
Registered User
 
Bandit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 5,436
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Deitell View Post
We got burned a lot last night. The coaching adjustment last night was the right one, that you need to up the pressure to stop the Avs in their own zone to prevent them from picking up speed thru center ice, but too many times I saw forwards go for an all or nothing poke check or hit and an Av fly by unmolested.
Yeah totally, but it seems to be a departure for the old Murray style with the 3rd forward sitting high hoping the other two will dig out the puck and set him up for a shot. This has been a change the last few games it seems, it will be interesting to see if it continues.

Bandit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2011, 01:34 PM
  #84
Josh Deitell
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Josh Deitell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 3,209
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandit View Post
Yeah totally, but it seems to be a departure for the old Murray style with the 3rd forward sitting high hoping the other two will dig out the puck and set him up for a shot. This has been a change the last few games it seems, it will be interesting to see if it continues.
I've been surprised by the changes, too. In Dallas on Saturday we were running something like a 1-1-1-2 check which I hadn't really seen this team play before. The first man pressure was good, then there was second man pressure to either double team or cover the pass, then a third at the high slot to slow down the breakout. Then to see them shift completely to a 2-1-2 last night, where the high man was actually being aggressive to a fault, it's interesting. Much more active coaching and forechecking than in years past.

Josh Deitell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2011, 02:21 PM
  #85
LAX attack*
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Danger Zone
Country: United States
Posts: 14,544
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to LAX attack*
Okay I'm going to stop even trying to debate. Some of you guys are ****ing crazy and if the Kings won a Stanley cup and went 16-1 90 percent of you would ***** about that one loss. This place is a zoo man. Some of you guys (as you've already discussed in this thread, sadly) probably should stop following hockey and should start following the UFC or something. Or the Ducks. Maybe if a large contingent of upset Kings fans joined the Ducks they could boost the collective IQ of that fanbase.

LAX attack* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2011, 02:38 PM
  #86
Whiskeypete
Registered User
 
Whiskeypete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: stuck in the middle
Country: United States
Posts: 2,364
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Deitell View Post
I've been surprised by the changes, too. In Dallas on Saturday we were running something like a 1-1-1-2 check which I hadn't really seen this team play before. The first man pressure was good, then there was second man pressure to either double team or cover the pass, then a third at the high slot to slow down the breakout. Then to see them shift completely to a 2-1-2 last night, where the high man was actually being aggressive to a fault, it's interesting. Much more active coaching and forechecking than in years past.
2-1-2 cuts down on the opponent generating speed up ice. essentially jams them up from their face-off circles to the blue line. the '1' then reads the lanes to cut the pass. when and if a pass is made the guys usually isnt at speed which would cause the LA d to sag back. the problem here, which we saw last night was the D being to aggressive or a lucky bounce for the other team. suddenly the inside (the F3) and strong side D (up ice) get caught out of position. it's going to happen. at least when they are playing this way they are being aggressive and playing to win.

last night the 1-1-1-2 is just so passive and boring. to me it isn't a way to play to win. its a way to play and hope to win.

no matter the format, it comes down to the backcheck. last night you saw Hunter get lazy on a backcheck, which hung DD out. the DAL game i cant remember who but in a similar situation that lead to a goal. no matter what the up ice forecheck is, the backcheck has to be at full speed.

Whiskeypete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2011, 02:42 PM
  #87
sjmay*
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,732
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiskeypete View Post
2-1-2 cuts down on the opponent generating speed up ice. essentially jams them up from their face-off circles to the blue line. the '1' then reads the lanes to cut the pass. when and if a pass is made the guys usually isnt at speed which would cause the LA d to sag back. the problem here, which we saw last night was the D being to aggressive or a lucky bounce for the other team. suddenly the inside (the F3) and strong side D (up ice) get caught out of position. it's going to happen. at least when they are playing this way they are being aggressive and playing to win.

last night the 1-1-1-2 is just so passive and boring. to me it isn't a way to play to win. its a way to play and hope to win.


no matter the format, it comes down to the backcheck. last night you saw Hunter get lazy on a backcheck, which hung DD out. the DAL game i cant remember who but in a similar situation that lead to a goal. no matter what the up ice forecheck is, the backcheck has to be at full speed.

Sorry, if you are talking about that Duchene goal, that is ALL on Doughty, after he chipped it out, he ****ing skated to the faceoff dot, instead of stopping and reading the play and playing the right gap, that was a bush league move and he paid for it.

Also, a 2-1-2 isn't to slow or cut down the opponents speed, it's to generate turnovers in their zone, in the corners, the high guy is there to cut off the cross-ice pass, if done correctly, which the Kings have done before, it creates a ton of turnovers and wears the other team down, it's highly effective when done properly.

sjmay* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2011, 02:50 PM
  #88
Sydor25
LA Kings
 
Sydor25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: North Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 21,828
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Sydor25
Quote:
Originally Posted by doughtybetterbemoney View Post
Okay I'm going to stop even trying to debate. Some of you guys are ****ing crazy and if the Kings won a Stanley cup and went 16-1 90 percent of you would ***** about that one loss. This place is a zoo man. Some of you guys (as you've already discussed in this thread, sadly) probably should stop following hockey and should start following the UFC or something. Or the Ducks. Maybe if a large contingent of upset Kings fans joined the Ducks they could boost the collective IQ of that fanbase.
These are posts that confuse me. Why would you be on a message board if you don't want discussions with people that have differing opinions? Do you want a site where everyone agrees and just says, "Go Kings!” with every post?

If you don't want to join the discussion that is in a thread, then ingore it. You have to know that PGTs after a loss will have more "negative" posts than normal and the opposite in as winning PGT. Just ignore PGT threads after a loss.

If the Kings win the cup by going 16-1, you won't see any posts by people *****ing about the 1 loss. Guaranteed.

Sydor25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2011, 02:50 PM
  #89
Josh Deitell
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Josh Deitell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 3,209
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiskeypete View Post
2-1-2 cuts down on the opponent generating speed up ice. essentially jams them up from their face-off circles to the blue line. the '1' then reads the lanes to cut the pass. when and if a pass is made the guys usually isnt at speed which would cause the LA d to sag back. the problem here, which we saw last night was the D being to aggressive or a lucky bounce for the other team. suddenly the inside (the F3) and strong side D (up ice) get caught out of position. it's going to happen. at least when they are playing this way they are being aggressive and playing to win.

last night the 1-1-1-2 is just so passive and boring. to me it isn't a way to play to win. its a way to play and hope to win.

no matter the format, it comes down to the backcheck. last night you saw Hunter get lazy on a backcheck, which hung DD out. the DAL game i cant remember who but in a similar situation that lead to a goal. no matter what the up ice forecheck is, the backcheck has to be at full speed.
The backchecking effort has definitely not been all there. I think it was Williams who let Vrbata go straight to the net for a cross ice pass which Quick had no business even coming close to saving.

I liked the 1-1-1-2 but only when the F1 put on pressure and the F2 was able to read the pass and get contact on the receiver. It's kind of a passive/aggressive check. It worked against a team like Dallas which tends to go for stretch passes, which is almost impossible when the defensemen are pressured trying to line the pass up, but against a team like Colorado that can carry the puck up ice, if the F1 or F2 lose their check, it's almost assuredly an outnumbered attack going the other way because our F3 is, understandly, flat footed. I'd say this is true with most any type of check where you have all three forwards inside the blueline. It's on the first two forecheckers to keep things more contained, which they didn't do, and Colorado got to play at their pace. We can hang around in run and gun games but it's not a good way to consistently win.

Josh Deitell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2011, 02:51 PM
  #90
sjmay*
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,732
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post

If the Kings win the cup by going 16-1, you won't see any posts by people *****ing about the 1 loss. Guaranteed.
I call ********! because there will be people on here *****ing about the one loss after it happens...

sjmay* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2011, 02:55 PM
  #91
ZJames
Registered User
 
ZJames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Dont worry about it
Country: United States
Posts: 530
vCash: 500
We are only 11 games into the season. And despite how theyve been playing a bit on the poor side, they still have a 6-3-2 record. Its a long season, they still have 71 games to go. Its a long season and a lot can happen. The forward line up has undergone a lot of change and might need time to gel. Give Drew some time as well and i think (hope, pray) that he will start playing better. This team has a lot of talent, and i think that there will be hardships along the way, but i feel that this team has the potential to do some damage come playoff time.

ZJames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2011, 02:57 PM
  #92
LAX attack*
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Danger Zone
Country: United States
Posts: 14,544
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to LAX attack*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
These are posts that confuse me. Why would you be on a message board if you don't want discussions with people that have differing opinions? Do you want a site where everyone agrees and just says, "Go Kings! with every post?

If you don't want to join the discussion that is in a thread, then ingore it. You have to know that PGTs after a loss will have more "negative" posts than normal and the opposite in as winning PGT. Just ignore PGT threads after a loss.

If the Kings win the cup by going 16-1, you won't see any posts by people *****ing about the 1 loss. Guaranteed.
I have my right to complain about you complaining if you have your right to complain

When I watched the Avs game I was thinking that this was the kind of loss that a mature fanbase, used to winning, would accept as puck luck.

I thought we were past the stupid hyperbolic self-loathing that was endemic when we actually sucked. There is a ton of criticism that can be levied at any given time but A) the whole "the ship is sinking mentality" is pretty rotten and B) the whole "the NHL is going downhill" mentality is also pretty rotten.

LAX attack* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2011, 03:00 PM
  #93
Sydor25
LA Kings
 
Sydor25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: North Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 21,828
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Sydor25
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZJames View Post
We are only 11 games into the season. And despite how theyve been playing a bit on the poor side, they still have a 6-3-2 record. Its a long season, they still have 71 games to go. Its a long season and a lot can happen. The forward line up has undergone a lot of change and might need time to gel. Give Drew some time as well and i think (hope, pray) that he will start playing better. This team has a lot of talent, and i think that there will be hardships along the way, but i feel that this team has the potential to do some damage come playoff time.
The Kings were 12-3 last year and the same signs were around. Poor 5-on-5 offense. If you don't learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it. Kings only had 1 line producing last year during their fast start too.

Sydor25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2011, 03:04 PM
  #94
Butch 19
King me
 
Butch 19's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: L.A. suburb
Country: United States
Posts: 8,739
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stupid Sexy Flanders View Post

I expect we'll be fighting for 6-8th just like the last 2 years. Hopefully we get in.
In year 6 of a 5-yr plan?

Now THAT'S depressing.

Butch 19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2011, 03:04 PM
  #95
ZJames
Registered User
 
ZJames's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Dont worry about it
Country: United States
Posts: 530
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
The Kings were 12-3 last year and the same signs were around. Poor 5-on-5 offense. If you don't learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it. Kings only had 1 line producing last year for their fast start.
Despite this, they were still in the running for the pacific division title until Kopitar got hurt. And with no kopitar and a doughty playing like crap, they still gave SJ a real scare in the playoffs. They still have poor 5 on 5 offense, but the PP is much improved so far, so not all of the same signs are here from last year. Its a long season, and you never know what might happen.

ZJames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2011, 03:08 PM
  #96
bobafettish*
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 5,961
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butch 19 View Post
In year 6 of a 5-yr plan?

Now THAT'S depressing.
with the roster we currently have , now thats depressing.

we should be much better offensively.

bobafettish* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2011, 03:10 PM
  #97
RonSwanson*
Gadfly
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Food 'N Stuff
Country: United States
Posts: 8,769
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobafettish View Post
i can live with both of these losses cause we played better than the opponents.

just stupid mistakes the burned us hard.
It wasn't really a stupid mistake that burned them though. The puck took an irregular bounce off the boards and let to an easy and incredibly lucky goal for the Avs that made the difference in the score.

BTW, Avs fans are worse than Ducks fans. They booed every time the refs made a call, even for icing. When the game was over, all I heard was "Kings suck". Those idiots can't come to grips with the fact that LA was on the road for a back to back game, doubled the Avs' shot total, and completely dominated the game.

I'm not blaming the refs for the loss, but they made some strange calls and noncalls that favored the Avs... Which certainly aided in the loss.

Basically the Avs were incredibly fortunate in the game and their fans thought they deserved the win. Complete bull.

RonSwanson* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2011, 03:18 PM
  #98
Whiskeypete
Registered User
 
Whiskeypete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: stuck in the middle
Country: United States
Posts: 2,364
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
Also, a 2-1-2 isn't to slow or cut down the opponents speed, it's to generate turnovers in their zone, in the corners, the high guy is there to cut off the cross-ice pass, if done correctly, which the Kings have done before, it creates a ton of turnovers and wears the other team down, it's highly effective when done properly.
it does lead to the TO's, but it jams an opponent into their zone. by jamming them the forwards can't turn up ice with speed. the forwards have to hold on the half boards, or in the middle work through at least one forechecker by the time he hits his own blueline. they don't get the space they need to hit passes to guys that are moving up ice with speed. the strong side board and mid-to-high slot passes get taken away. the backside (weakside) winger typically has to stay back on his halfboard, because the best option to counter a 2-1-2 is to work the puck back to the weakside away from the direct pressure.

that's why the 2-1-2 i think is the best way to counter a team with speed. you do your best to never allow them the opportunity.

Whiskeypete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2011, 03:23 PM
  #99
Muzzinga
Regehr GOAT
 
Muzzinga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,875
vCash: 500
guys you know that there are lots of good teams in the NHL right, thats the whole point of the cap, it creates equal playing fields. There will only be 1 or 2 teams each year that stroll into the playoffs crushing everyone, every other team has to grind out games.

The Kings, are approx 60% to win each game on average. That will get you into the playoffs as a 4-5 seed. It also means you are going to lose lots of games you deserve to win

Muzzinga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-31-2011, 03:24 PM
  #100
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
 
Ziggy Stardust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 31,123
vCash: 500
Judging from some of the comments I'm reading from reactionary posters, I am to assume that most of you think the NHL should hand over the Stanley Cup already to the Edmonton Oilers.

Ziggy Stardust is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:18 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.