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Why is AK not being used on the PP??

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Old
10-29-2011, 12:01 AM
  #26
JLP
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Originally Posted by Stradale View Post
I don't mind AK not having lot of PP time because he is indeed not the most creative player out there but if its Darche that takes his place, now that's a different story.

On the PP, you put your players that has the best shot.. and AK is probably our best shooter with Cammy. Give AK that second to shoot, he will probably score. I never like using him in front of the net because he was never good at it. The guy has a wicked shot, why not let him use it.

When his timing is good, his one-timer is quite lethal too. I can't wait for Markov to come back so we can those cross-ice pass, something none of our point guy can do.
Agree. I think the PP or any offensive line is less about individual skill sets and more about synchronicity -- e.g. DD and Pax have synchronicity, their "hockey smarts" mean they anticipate each other and it's clear they are enjoying themselves on the ice together, which further improves synchronicity and gives good results. If we want AK to improve his "hockey smarts" why not play him with DD & Pax, which happened for a bit and was productive. AK is still young enough to improve dramatically elsewhere, we should give him the chance to do so in Montreal.

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Old
10-29-2011, 12:40 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by sammy d View Post
Because Martin who has been involved in hockey the past 40 years or so, who sees these guys everyday in practices, games etc. has decided this is what he wants to do to win games. For any of you armchair quarterbacks who whine about who he plays on the powerplay, give it a rest, he knows more about hockey than most of you will ever know in 3 lifetimes.
Oh this argument again.

You new here? This is a hockey board. It's to discuss about hockey. If you can't live with fans questioning the coach, I don't think this is the right place for you.

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10-29-2011, 01:47 AM
  #28
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AK's PP/TOI per game since 07/08 and his production:

07/08 3:00 PP TOI/G (5TH among fwds) 12PPG 4PPA (5TH among fwds)
08/09 3:04 PP TOI/G (5TH among fwds) 6PPG 9PPA (5TH among fwds)
09/10 2:15 PP TOI/G (5TH among fwds) 6PPG 3PPA (6TH among fwds) 59 games played due to injury
10/11 2:16 PP TOI/G (6TH among fwds) 5PPG 6PPA (5TH among fwds)
11/12 1:38 PP TOI/G (8TH among fwds) 0PPG 0PPA (T-6TH among fwds with Gomez, Cammalleri and others)

Not bad, not great, but decent 2nd unit numbers, imo.

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Old
10-29-2011, 01:49 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holyhabs87 View Post
AK does go in front of the net on the PP and he has been very effective there.

He has better hands than both Cole and Darche, so on a 5 on 3, he should be in front of the net waiting for a pass from Plekanec or DD to tap in a goal like he has done many times.
I agree that he's in the same vicinity at times... but I'm talking about setting up shop ala Tomas Holmstrom

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Old
10-29-2011, 06:03 AM
  #30
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I prefer to see Eller and Akost with the max ES ToI and no PP!!

Why? I want them to make Bodycheck and forcing opposite D to backup in their zone when we have the puck

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10-29-2011, 07:30 AM
  #31
Young Gun
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people people, we have cole on the pp now, don't need AK !!
that bum is looking for a big payday, thats all. If he gets it, he'll
just lazy around for a couple of years.

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Old
10-29-2011, 09:28 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Young Gun View Post
people people, we have cole on the pp now, don't need AK !!
that bum is looking for a big payday, thats all. If he gets it, he'll
just lazy around for a couple of years.
Please tell me you are not being serious..

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Old
10-29-2011, 10:03 AM
  #33
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Actually.. Gio has been pretty horrible offensively all year and is definitely not the guy to have in front of the net

I understand Darche and Cole (even though i think AK deserves that time on PP a lot more than they do) but Martin is obsessed with Having Gionta on the PP.. PP wingers should be in order: Patches, Cammy, AK, Cole, Darche, Gionta

Also, it is pretty obvious that Weber deserves the most PP time on the point but it seems like he is now ahead of Subban on JM's list..

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Old
10-29-2011, 10:03 AM
  #34
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I started this thread because I was having a very long debate with one of my friends on that topic, I think AK will get more PP time in the next games and that JM knows what AK can bring to the table. Patches is our best player right now and he got similar icetime to AK.


I told him about the thread too and heres his answer after he saw the thread when we were emailing at work...his semi-rant deserves a post




Dude.

PLEASE.

Could we just end this?????

I don,t care if every idiot on HF disagrees with me....we're not talking about nobel prize winners on HF if you catch my drift.

First of all...I want AK on the PP...but i want him on the KOVY SPOT....very different from playing the darche spot. VERY different. He has the tools to play there, Jacques, and apparently HF peeps are equally too dense to see that.

Now it is true....I can't tell you he will be amazing at the Kovy spot...wanna know why??? We've never seen it...but he certainly deserves a chance!!! He deserves that chance because he has been a true beast on 5 vs 5.

Beginning of season people were jizzin on Max AK DD line....then people were jizzin on Elle AK MOen...ummm....HELLO????????????????????? Who is always finding himself on the IT line??? I guess it must be luck.

I disagree. JM is unfair with AK...not only because he is not rewarding AK with PP time...but because if Gionta or even Max take a dumb penalty, they will not skip one shift. Will Andrei skip a shift.

I rest my case.

Now please. For the love of Christ. Do not extend this. We disagree. Let's end it.

Thank you.

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Old
10-30-2011, 07:24 PM
  #35
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AK doesn't really have any Powerplay skills, IMO. He's abit too individualistic, and he can be a little lazy along the boards, and I don't think he wants to go in the slot area

With his size and wrister he's better suited for 5-on-5 and 4-on-4

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Old
10-31-2011, 09:48 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaMMuT View Post
I started this thread because I was having a very long debate with one of my friends on that topic, I think AK will get more PP time in the next games and that JM knows what AK can bring to the table. Patches is our best player right now and he got similar icetime to AK.


I told him about the thread too and heres his answer after he saw the thread when we were emailing at work...his semi-rant deserves a post




Dude.

PLEASE.

Could we just end this?????

I don,t care if every idiot on HF disagrees with me....we're not talking about nobel prize winners on HF if you catch my drift.

First of all...I want AK on the PP...but i want him on the KOVY SPOT....very different from playing the darche spot. VERY different. He has the tools to play there, Jacques, and apparently HF peeps are equally too dense to see that.

Now it is true....I can't tell you he will be amazing at the Kovy spot...wanna know why??? We've never seen it...but he certainly deserves a chance!!! He deserves that chance because he has been a true beast on 5 vs 5.

Beginning of season people were jizzin on Max AK DD line....then people were jizzin on Elle AK MOen...ummm....HELLO????????????????????? Who is always finding himself on the IT line??? I guess it must be luck.

I disagree. JM is unfair with AK...not only because he is not rewarding AK with PP time...but because if Gionta or even Max take a dumb penalty, they will not skip one shift. Will Andrei skip a shift.

I rest my case.

Now please. For the love of Christ. Do not extend this. We disagree. Let's end it.

Thank you.
First off: I ain't dense.

Secondly: I agree. J-Mart is clearly biased against AK. AK deserves PP time, and would be best utilized playing the half-boards "Kovy" spot. AK not only has a wicked wrist shot, he's quite adept at finding the open man on the LW with a cross-high-slot pass from the RW with a crisp precise pass.

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Old
10-31-2011, 09:54 AM
  #37
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BECAUSE DARCHE IS BETTER, HAVE YOU DONE YOUR RESEARCH?



Replace Cole by Kostitsyn, Eller.

(credit to MiG)

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Old
10-31-2011, 01:06 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques Demers View Post
AK doesn't really have any Powerplay skills, IMO. He's abit too individualistic, and he can be a little lazy along the boards, and I don't think he wants to go in the slot area

With his size and wrister he's better suited for 5-on-5 and 4-on-4
So, size and a great shot are not condusive to playing the power play? Somebody should tell Washington because they keep using that Ovechkin guy on the PP and I guess he's not suited because he's big and has a great wrister!

AK is individualistic? he's been a highlight reel of great setups this year. Eller could of had 4-5 goals last game simply on AK's setups

Lazy along the boards? Yea, and Cammy and DD and Gionta and Darche are monsters along the boards and that's oh so important on the PP.

You don't think he wants to go in the slot area? The slot area you say? Really? First of all, when he has played the PP, the first place AK goes is right in front of the net. That's not the role I would have for him... but I guess that's what JM wants. I'd have him use that wrister or one timer à la Kovalev.

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Old
10-31-2011, 01:14 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyleOdelein View Post
The four wingers who are averaging more PP time on ice than AKost are Gionta, Pacioretty, Cammalleri and Cole. Despite what some people say, he's averaging more PP time on ice than Darche.

Even though I'm sure that some people think this is evidence of JM hating on AKost, it's pretty obvious that he's temporarily caught in a numbers game and is one injury or stretch of PP inefficiency away from getting more time on one of the top units.

There's a clear problem with only looking at PP/TOI over the last two games. Most notably that last night the Habs had two powerplays and they overlapped. Not a lot of minutes were available to go around.
Darche should get no PP time, that pisses me off. Kostitsyn is definitely being misused. He's already said he has an issue with the coach, and it seems to show in his TOI.

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10-31-2011, 01:52 PM
  #40
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Kosty is going to get his chances... It's a long season, and PP time is sought after by all..

My guess as to why Darche has been playing so much there, is because before the past few games, he was getting something like 4 minutes of ES time. It was probably done to give him some offensive chances.

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Old
10-31-2011, 01:58 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques Demers View Post
AK doesn't really have any Powerplay skills, IMO. He's abit too individualistic, and he can be a little lazy along the boards, and I don't think he wants to go in the slot area

With his size and wrister he's better suited for 5-on-5 and 4-on-4
How is he individualistic? He keeps to puck too long? Or he shoots the puck too often? I really don't get this. If AK can keep the puck for 3 seconds without losing it, for me its a good thing since he's the kind of guy that loses the puck constantly when he's not playing with any confidence. With a better finish from Eller, AK would easily get 2-3 more assists. Also, AK should shoot as much as possible with the shot he has. The guy can do no right.

With his shot, he's a must on the PP.

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Old
10-31-2011, 02:00 PM
  #42
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Hopefully Martin gets canned by the end of the year so we can keep AK. His chemistry with all our centers but Gomez is invaluable when you consider we only offer overbloated contracts to past prime players at free agency. Also a good number of our prospects are not even close to NHL ready to fill the gap. Especially with Avtsin stinking the bed now in Hamilton. I was hoping he would be ready for minor minutes by next season, but he's going to need his entire ELC down in Hamilton at this pace and will likely end up in the KHL before that happens.

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Old
10-31-2011, 02:10 PM
  #43
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I am loving the theme of wanting a bunch of top 6 wingers, and then being in shock when one of them doesn't get as much PP icetime.

This is a good problem to have. The PP has been excellent the last two games, I really couldn't care less who is on it.

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10-31-2011, 02:13 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
I am loving the theme of wanting a bunch of top 6 wingers, and then being in shock when one of them doesn't get as much PP icetime.

This is a good problem to have. The PP has been excellent the last two games, I really couldn't care less who is on it.
Exactly... We have a very well balanced team... Many players are vying for that valuable PP time, I bet Martins is using it like a reward.

Kost will get his chances IMO

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Old
10-31-2011, 02:16 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Young Gun View Post
people people, we have cole on the pp now, don't need AK !!
that bum is looking for a big payday, thats all. If he gets it, he'll
just lazy around for a couple of years.
Not his biggest fan but AK is having a hell of a start to the season, he is probably the next forward that will have a shot on the pp. Get Darche out of there and put either AK or Eller

And same thing when Gomez is back, he shouldn't get pp either

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10-31-2011, 02:16 PM
  #46
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Darche getting a lot of PP time is one of those HF myths. He got less than Andrei so far yet the JM haters lynch mob crowd love to repeat that like parrots so whatever I guess. He's not an idiot.

Having said that, I would like to see Kostitsyn get more PP minutes than 1:35 average per game or so he has so far. Trouble is, as Budda alluded to who's icetime do you give him?

Gionta (2pp pts)- Cammy (2pts) - Paciorretty (1pt) - Cole (1pt) would be the guys you'd have to cut icetime from to give him more.

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10-31-2011, 02:22 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
Darche getting a lot of PP time is one of those HF myths. He got less than Andrei so far yet the JM haters lynch mob crowd love to repeat that like parrots so whatever I guess. He's not an idiot.

Having said that, I would like to see Kostitsyn get more PP minutes than 1:35 average per game or so he has so far. Trouble is, as Budda alluded to who's icetime do you give him?

Gionta (2pp pts)- Cammy (2pts) - Paciorretty (1pt) - Cole (1pt) would be the guys you'd have to cut icetime from to give him more.
Give him a Dman's PP time. We can roll with 4 forwards...dunno, just a thought.

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10-31-2011, 02:23 PM
  #48
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I'd like to see both Kost/Eller get a bit more PP time, and Cammy/Gionta a bit less...

watching the games, it strikes me that both vets are woeful at times on the PP b/c neither has good vision with the puck, and neither are strong passers.

for all of Kost/Eller deficiencies, I think vision/passing is something that they are both better at than those two vets, and it just seems logical that those are strengths you'd want to see more of when in PP situations.

I think it's a bit of JM's tendency to cater to vets ahead of playing players based on merit, something i fundamentally disagree with.

Perhaps as the season progresses, if Eller/Kost can keep up their 5-on-5 play, JM will gradually reward them with more PP time... at least I hope so.

PP units I'd like to see:

Pleks- Cammy- MaxPac
Eller- Kost- Cole

with DD spitting time with Eller/Kost

Gionta really doesn't need to be on our PP play anymore, and if he is the locker room leader he's made out to be, getting his PP time cut down shouldn't be an issue.

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Old
10-31-2011, 02:26 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
I'd like to see both Kost/Eller get a bit more PP time, and Cammy/Gionta a bit less...

watching the games, it strikes me that both vets are woeful at times on the PP b/c neither has good vision with the puck, and neither are strong passers.

for all of Kost/Eller deficiencies, I think vision/passing is something that they are both better at than those two vets, and it just seems logical that those are strengths you'd want to see more of when in PP situations.

I think it's a bit of JM's tendency to cater to vets ahead of playing players based on merit, something i fundamentally disagree with.

Perhaps as the season progresses, if Eller/Kost can keep up their 5-on-5 play, JM will gradually reward them with more PP time... at least I hope so.
Agreed and this is were I want Martin to make the changes, example the other night 5 on 3 and our best forward so far Pacioretty isn't on the ice but Gionta is. Give the ice time and reward the ones that are playing great for you. If Gomez was in the lineup, I'm 100% sure he would have been on that 5 on 3. I have no problem with Gionta, but give the chance to the ones that are playing better right now on the pp as well like Pacioretty, Eller, AK, Cole

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Old
10-31-2011, 02:32 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by gifted88 View Post
Give him a Dman's PP time. We can roll with 4 forwards...dunno, just a thought.
I believe it was already tried with Kostitsyn on the point, and it was a mess defensively. He has the shot to be effective there, but his lack of IQ makes him an unworthy candidate.

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