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Old
10-31-2011, 12:54 PM
  #1
ChrisKreider20
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Ice Time

I was just doing some quick stat referencing and I took a look at TOI for NY this year. It is beyond bad how he splits up ice time.

So two columns - last years and this years....

Gaborik - 18:05 to 19:41
Richards - 21:43 to 21:38
Wolski - 14:29 to 13:24

Anisimov - 16:12 to 14:09
Callahan - 19:54 to 21:14
Dubinsky -20:14 to 19:15

Prust - 13:49 to 12:03
Boyle - 15:44 to 13:60
Fedotenko - 14:60 to 16:04

Rupp - 10:03 to 6:10
Zuccarello - 14:10 to 8:26
Christensen - 12:46 to 7:02

It just boggles my mind how the grinders are putting in 2nd line minutes.

Torts needs to start running 4 lines.

Wolski-Richards-Gaborik - AVG 20 mins
Dubinsky-Anisimov- Callahan - AVG 16 mins
Avery - Stepan - Zuccarello - Average 14 mins
Prust- Boyle- Fedotenko - AVG 10 mins

And for **** sake don't shuffle lines. Play them the full time so they can actually develop chemistry. If one line is playing particularly well, adjust and give them a bump, but my no means should Brian Boyle ever play 18 minutes during a game. Neither should Fedotenko for that matter.

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10-31-2011, 12:56 PM
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KingWantsCup
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Maybe the next coach we'll have won't be a line juggler. Renney was just as bad.

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10-31-2011, 12:57 PM
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ChrisKreider20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingWantsCup View Post
Maybe the next coach we'll have won't be a line juggler. Renney was just as bad.
lol Remember Sjostrom-Betts-Orr getting a ton of ice time...

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10-31-2011, 12:57 PM
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A reason for the minutes those players are putting up is because we've been on the PK far too much so far. Those grinders are our best penalty killers, so they will continue to see the ice in those situations.

Also, were talking about John Tortorella, so we aren't going to have balanced lines. You make one mistake, and you might not play for a period.

As much as I'd love to see some set lines, it will never happen under this horrible coach.

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10-31-2011, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingWantsCup View Post
Maybe the next coach we'll have won't be a line juggler. Renney was just as bad.
I don't think he wants to have to do it but leaving everyone together when it clearly isn't working wouldn't win him any points with the fans either.....

It's a lose-lose for Torts.

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10-31-2011, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRfan68 View Post
lol Remember Sjostrom-Betts-Orr getting a ton of ice time...
Hollweg-Betts-Orr got 9 minutes one period (We were matching them against the opposition's top line) and the entire board freaked.

Avery-Stepan-Zuccarello is a nightmare line. They would very easily be the 4th best behind the Boyle line.

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10-31-2011, 01:34 PM
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Blatant
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Players like Prust, Feds, Boyle, Cally, Dubi get a lot of extra ice time for the PK. Since we have only played 9 games and have a lot of PK time the numbers are a little skewed.

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10-31-2011, 01:34 PM
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OverTheCap
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"Grinders" such as Dubi and Cally have gotten a lot of ice time this year because they are our #1 PK unit.

When you look at even strength ice time, it's a far different story:

Richards - 16:59
Gaborik - 16:01
Callahan - 14:53
Dubinsky - 14:25

I also love how Cally and Dubi are back to being considered 3rd line grinders again, after they carried our top 6 last year.

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10-31-2011, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
"Grinders" such as Dubi and Cally have gotten a lot of ice time this year because they are our #1 PK unit.

When you look at even strength ice time, it's a far different story:

Richards - 16:59
Gaborik - 16:01
Callahan - 14:53
Dubinsky - 14:25

I also love how Cally and Dubi are back to being considered 3rd line grinders again, after they carried our top 6 last year.
Exactly, they were our 2 best forwards last year, and now they are 3rd line grinders?

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10-31-2011, 02:03 PM
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Well, for starters, last year's ice time is over 81 games and this year's is only over 9 so having a few games with a lot of penalties or PPs (in this case, penalties, as well know too well) will have a huge effect on those numbers. Another thing that has an effect on the numbers when you use a small sample is whether the team was ahead or behind for most of that time. For example, in the third period in WPG I think it was the top line didn't get a lot of mintues. While everyone was crying about this and posting ZOMG FIRE TORTS I thought it made sense seeing as how the team hasn't been able to score for anything and they were up a goal. Yeah, its nice to get an insurance goal but what about this offense makes anybody think that they were more capable of scoring another one than they were of just shutting the other team down? There was less minutes for the top line because the defensive players got that time - justifiably in my opinion since they won the game.

Small things like penalties to PPs or whether a team was leading or trailing make a much bigger difference over a span of something like 9 games. Also, by "grinders" do you mean Dubi and Cally? The players who kept our team afloat last year while Gabby was asleep? Why does it always break down to grinders and scorers? Dubi and Cally are two way players IMO. They haven't been on their game most of this season but taking their larger body of work into account they are solid two way players, the kind of players that you need on a successful team.

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10-31-2011, 03:06 PM
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ChrisKreider20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
Well, for starters, last year's ice time is over 81 games and this year's is only over 9 so having a few games with a lot of penalties or PPs (in this case, penalties, as well know too well) will have a huge effect on those numbers. Another thing that has an effect on the numbers when you use a small sample is whether the team was ahead or behind for most of that time. For example, in the third period in WPG I think it was the top line didn't get a lot of mintues. While everyone was crying about this and posting ZOMG FIRE TORTS I thought it made sense seeing as how the team hasn't been able to score for anything and they were up a goal. Yeah, its nice to get an insurance goal but what about this offense makes anybody think that they were more capable of scoring another one than they were of just shutting the other team down? There was less minutes for the top line because the defensive players got that time - justifiably in my opinion since they won the game.

Small things like penalties to PPs or whether a team was leading or trailing make a much bigger difference over a span of something like 9 games. Also, by "grinders" do you mean Dubi and Cally? The players who kept our team afloat last year while Gabby was asleep? Why does it always break down to grinders and scorers? Dubi and Cally are two way players IMO. They haven't been on their game most of this season but taking their larger body of work into account they are solid two way players, the kind of players that you need on a successful team.
Grinders = Prust, Fedotenko, Boyle.

I have trouble with them playing >10 minutes. Except for maybe Fedotenko. We need scoring. Zuccarello put up 1/2 a PPG in his first season with 14 minutes. Of course he is not scoring with 8.

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10-31-2011, 03:13 PM
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Thing is that our Grinders last year (Feds, Boyle Prust) produced more in terms of offense than our "skill players" like Zuccarello, Wolski, and Christensen.

To say nothing of defensive play or puck possession time.

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10-31-2011, 03:19 PM
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ChrisKreider20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLU Hockey View Post
Thing is that our Grinders last year (Feds, Boyle Prust) produced more in terms of offense than our "skill players" like Zuccarello, Wolski, and Christensen.

To say nothing of defensive play or puck possession time.
Boyle was an anomaly. He won't even produce near that number again (20% shooting% lol when he was scoring). Fedotenko can get in the top 9 for sure. I'd prefer Avery over him though, I think those two can be swapped depending on who is playing well.

Prust is good but he should be playing more than 10 mins even strength.

Christensen should be shipped out. Wolski I think needs to play first line and Zuccarello has proven he can produce at the NHL level. He needs to be developed now, and played.

As far as I'm concerned it needs to be some combination of Richards, Gabby, Anisimov, Dubi, Cally, Stepan, Wolski, Avery (Fedotenko), Zucc in the top 9.

Boyle, Prust, Fedotenko (Avery) should be playing 4th line with Rupp taking the role of whoever isn't playing well.
Short shifts, roll 4 lines...

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Old
10-31-2011, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYRfan68 View Post
Boyle was an anomaly. He won't even produce near that number again (20% shooting% lol when he was scoring). Fedotenko can get in the top 9 for sure. I'd prefer Avery over him though, I think those two can be swapped depending on who is playing well.

Prust is good but he should be playing more than 10 mins even strength.

Christensen should be shipped out. Wolski I think needs to play first line and Zuccarello has proven he can produce at the NHL level. He needs to be developed now, and played.

As far as I'm concerned it needs to be some combination of Richards, Gabby, Anisimov, Dubi, Cally, Stepan, Wolski, Avery (Fedotenko), Zucc in the top 9.

Boyle, Prust, Fedotenko (Avery) should be playing 4th line with Rupp taking the role of whoever isn't playing well.
Short shifts, roll 4 lines...
While I agree with you in theory, as you watch each game individually, I find it hard to fault Torts for giving extra icetime to guys like Prust or Feds because they are the guys who are making things happen on the ice.

The flip side to that argument is that if you don't give a guy like Anisimov enough time on the ice, he's not going to get into a rhythm -- but that's hard to argue when you need a goal and it's only the "grinders" or the 1st-line players who seem to be stirring the pot.

Fact of the matter is, game-by-game, it's academic whether a player is "skilled" or a "grinder". They're either effective or they aren't.

PS> You might not have faith in Boyle's ability to repeat last year's numbers, but it's way early in the season to say last year was just a fluke.

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