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Old
10-31-2011, 06:55 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by vannzee View Post
I will be there tomorrow. It will be exciting to see Nyquist's debut.

I do not think Hudler is the problem. If they play him on the third line then thats the perfect spot for him. He's had his moments this season and you can certainly see that he can be a goal scorer.
Actually, I think that's part of the problem with Hudler these days. Whereas in the past our 3rd line had some skill on it, where Hudler could mesh, now it consists of Helm, Abdelkader, and Bertuzzi (subject to change). I don't think he fits there nearly as well as in the past. I don't know whether Hudler will finish this season in Detroit or not, but I do not expect him here next season.

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10-31-2011, 07:02 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Kyleftlx View Post
What has Hudler done to earn himself a spot?
Nothing really, but that's not the point. The point is that he's never given enough of a chance in the minds of some. He could go another 5 games (or 10 games, or 15 games...) without a shot or a point and it'd be because he wasn't playing with Datsyuk, or enough at ES, or both.

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10-31-2011, 07:02 PM
  #78
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Eaves shouldn't be scratched... ever (even though for some reason he does...). I'd sit Miller.

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10-31-2011, 07:03 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
If he shines, I wonder if it will become permanent.
It *should* go without question that it's permanent if he shines.

It's an unfortunately valid thought though, because it's happened before on this team... to Nyquist. And Helm... And Leino (before he sucked that one year).

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10-31-2011, 07:13 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by ARCTICCAT24 View Post
I wish this kid was over 6 ft tall, damn. If he was Bertuzzi's height he would be even more of a beast.
If he were Bertuzzi's height, he would have gone in the top 15 in his draft year and the Wings wouldn't have had a shot at him.

I'm kinda surprised they made this move. It goes against their usual MO, which is to have these types of guys wait for multiple injuries to strike while they play things out with the guys that are currently on the roster.

Personally I'd like to see him take Cleary's spot on the top line. I'm not sure that line would have anyone to forecheck or crash the net, but they'd have so much skill it might not matter. If they're going to put him on a lower line, I'd try him with Abdelkader and Eaves. Then he'd be the flash and the playmaker, Eaves would be the shooter, and Abdelkader would be the digger/crasher.

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10-31-2011, 07:19 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
Nothing really, but that's not the point. The point is that he's never given enough of a chance in the minds of some. He could go another 5 games (or 10 games, or 15 games...) without a shot or a point and it'd be because he wasn't playing with Datsyuk, or enough at ES, or both.

I hate hearing that argument because the bottom 6 players can get a shot or a point without playing with datsyuk...if a player is only effective with one player on the team....why have him?

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10-31-2011, 07:39 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by sarcastro View Post
I'm kinda surprised they made this move. It goes against their usual MO, which is to have these types of guys wait for multiple injuries to strike while they play things out with the guys that are currently on the roster.
That's not terribly true. Really good players like Fil and Kronwall recently (Z and Datsyuk more distantly) get onto the roster quickly without muddling around in the minors for the full term of their exemptions, if at all.

The problem is that given where Detroit normally drafts, they don't land those kind of sure-fire supertalents too terribly often, so most of the guys who come up have to do it partially by attrition and partially by growing into their role.

Smith is on the Kronwall track much like Nyqvist is on the Filppula track, so an AHL season and change will be enough for them if they can continue to produce.

Mediocre prospects (of which the Wings have had heaping handfuls) bubble up slowly and then either stick (Ericsson, Kindl, Emmerton) or lose a numbers game (Meech, Quincey, Ritola). And even the ones that stick may lose a numbers game eventually.

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Personally I'd like to see him take Cleary's spot on the top line. I'm not sure that line would have anyone to forecheck or crash the net, but they'd have so much skill it might not matter. If they're going to put him on a lower line, I'd try him with Abdelkader and Eaves. Then he'd be the flash and the playmaker, Eaves would be the shooter, and Abdelkader would be the digger/crasher.
Cleary has been dogmeat this year, but then so have pretty much all the forwards other than Franzen and Fil. Counting them, D and Z that makes only 4 forwards I think have to be in the top 6. The rest of them can fight for the last two spots, because none of the other contenders have shown me anything to make me thing one should be ahead of the others, or even Nyqvist right off the bus.

Can we sucker Philly into trading for Cleary and Hudler at the deadline? We'll throw in Kindl and take back Briere and Coburn.

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10-31-2011, 07:53 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
That's not terribly true. Really good players like Fil and Kronwall recently (Z and Datsyuk more distantly) get onto the roster quickly without muddling around in the minors for the full term of their exemptions, if at all.

The problem is that given where Detroit normally drafts, they don't land those kind of sure-fire supertalents too terribly often, so most of the guys who come up have to do it partially by attrition and partially by growing into their role.

Smith is on the Kronwall track much like Nyqvist is on the Filppula track, so an AHL season and change will be enough for them if they can continue to produce.

Mediocre prospects (of which the Wings have had heaping handfuls) bubble up slowly and then either stick (Ericsson, Kindl, Emmerton) or lose a numbers game (Meech, Quincey, Ritola). And even the ones that stick may lose a numbers game eventually.

Cleary has been dogmeat this year, but then so have pretty much all the forwards other than Franzen and Fil. Counting them, D and Z that makes only 4 forwards I think have to be in the top 6. The rest of them can fight for the last two spots, because none of the other contenders have shown me anything to make me thing one should be ahead of the others, or even Nyqvist right off the bus.

Can we sucker Philly into trading for Cleary and Hudler at the deadline? We'll throw in Kindl and take back Briere and Coburn.
Cleary's really good when he's on, but it's clear that he's not on right now. Injured, whatever. It's not happening for him.

The other examples you mentioned weren't really like this one. Flip should never have been sent to the minors anyway - he "lost out" to worthless Brad Norton and had a wrist injury that gave them the excuse, and it only took a couple weeks for the wrist to heal and for the coaches to figure out they made a mistake there.

Kronwall would have been in the top 6 the year before if not for the lockout, and the year before that if he hadn't gotten injured and missed almost the whole season.

In no other recent example do we have a guy that is really talented getting called up at the expense of another roster player, getting playing time over multiple healthy veteran players already on the roster (I'm assuming he'll play at the expense of Miller or Eaves, and Emmerton is already glued to the bench), purely for the purposes of jump-starting the team.

I don't think Nyquist is ready to be an impact player 9 games into his pro career, but I'll be interested to see the results. This might just be intended as a short-term kick in the butt to all the guys on the roster to get them to pick up the pace. We'll see.

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10-31-2011, 07:57 PM
  #84
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Wow, bit of a shock. Totally deserved but you get the feeling management must be little stunned by our recent form and complete lack of chemistry or else they wouldn't have pulled off this move.

I am so, so excited to see Gus' NHL debut tomorrow, absolutely cannot wait! I expect him to play on the 2nd line alongside Franzen and Zetterberg, and Flip will go to Dats' wing.

I wonder how Tatar is feeling though? Been grinding it out in the AHL for 2+ seasons, and Gus comes in and trumps him after 9 games. I guess Nyquist is a little older though, but still.

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10-31-2011, 07:58 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaster View Post
Actually, I think that's part of the problem with Hudler these days. Whereas in the past our 3rd line had some skill on it, where Hudler could mesh, now it consists of Helm, Abdelkader, and Bertuzzi (subject to change). I don't think he fits there nearly as well as in the past. I don't know whether Hudler will finish this season in Detroit or not, but I do not expect him here next season.
Also, play around the league has changed since Hudler could put up points on the third line. Obstruction is far more prevalent now than four years ago, and it's becoming much more difficult for skill guys to get space again.

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10-31-2011, 08:05 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Filppula View Post
Wow, bit of a shock. Totally deserved but you get the feeling management must be little stunned by our recent form and complete lack of chemistry or else they wouldn't have pulled off this move.

I am so, so excited to see Gus' NHL debut tomorrow, absolutely cannot wait! I expect him to play on the 2nd line alongside Franzen and Zetterberg, and Flip will go to Dats' wing.

I wonder how Tatar is feeling though? Been grinding it out in the AHL for 2+ seasons, and Gus comes in and trumps him after 9 games. I guess Nyquist is a little older though, but still.
Not sure what you mean about Tatar, he got a taste last year and Nyquist has shown way more than Tatar has (outside of his stellar WJC). I think Tatar could be a really good player but Nyquist is definitely better.

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10-31-2011, 08:10 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
Not sure what you mean about Tatar, he got a taste last year and Nyquist has shown way more than Tatar has (outside of his stellar WJC). I think Tatar could be a really good player but Nyquist is definitely better.
For a while Tatar was considered our best forward prospect, and he was doing very well in the AHL. All of a sudden, Nyquist turns pro, has a dominant camp and PS, and surpasses Tatar. I completely agree Nyquist is a better prospect, but Tatar must be at least a little frustrated as I bet he thought if this circumstance did arise, he'd be on his way to Detroit, not Gus. I completely agree with the Wings decision, Tatar is more of a complimentary player, whereas Nyquist can actually carry a line IMO.

FWIW, I think Nyquist will stick with Detroit.

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10-31-2011, 08:25 PM
  #88
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Everyone wants to bench Hudler, but IMO, Cleary and Bertuzzi have been as bad or worse. Truth is, Cleary should sit until he's ready to return and play at full speed.

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10-31-2011, 08:26 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Filppula View Post
For a while Tatar was considered our best forward prospect, and he was doing very well in the AHL. All of a sudden, Nyquist turns pro, has a dominant camp and PS, and surpasses Tatar. I completely agree Nyquist is a better prospect, but Tatar must be at least a little frustrated as I bet he thought if this circumstance did arise, he'd be on his way to Detroit, not Gus. I completely agree with the Wings decision, Tatar is more of a complimentary player, whereas Nyquist can actually carry a line IMO.

FWIW, I think Nyquist will stick with Detroit.
Nyquist is also 22, while Tatar is 20. He's only a year younger than Mursak and Emmerton. It stands to reason he'd be more "NHL-ready". Tatar got called up really, really early. He played well, but still - the Wings don't call guys up that early. He's going to have to wait a while before he gets another sniff. And he's going to have to work really, really hard to make sure he's in position when a spot is open.

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10-31-2011, 08:30 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by sarcastro View Post
Nyquist is also 22, while Tatar is 20. He's only a year younger than Mursak and Emmerton. It stands to reason he'd be more "NHL-ready". Tatar got called up really, really early. He played well, but still - the Wings don't call guys up that early. He's going to have to wait a while before he gets another sniff. And he's going to have to work really, really hard to make sure he's in position when a spot is open.
I'd be very surprised, unless we're hit hard by injuries, to see Tatar up at any point this season. Tatar will just have to wait until the start of next season when Homer and Bert are both likely gone.

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10-31-2011, 08:39 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Filppula View Post
I'd be very surprised, unless we're hit hard by injuries, to see Tatar up at any point this season. Tatar will just have to wait until the start of next season when Homer and Bert are both likely gone.
it would help if he would improve his scoring this season. his start was not as good as expected, but i guess that goes for a lot of GR players. nonetheless tatar has to produce more than a point per game to establish himself as a scorer in the AHL. he's not made for bottom line play, so he really has to offer something the wings need in order to jump straight to a scoring line next offseason. but i wouldn't count on it. IMO he's 2 years away from making the NHL. he's still young. most players join the AHL at his age.

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10-31-2011, 10:08 PM
  #92
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Everyone wants to bench Hudler, but IMO, Cleary and Bertuzzi have been as bad or worse. Truth is, Cleary should sit until he's ready to return and play at full speed.
Yup. Cleary's been a much bigger disappointment. And I'm a Hudler "hater".

In the last seven games, Cleary has been a minus player in five of them and has not recorded a single point. This while getting 15-17 minutes per game. No goal for the season yet. Virtually useless in other words. He'd be my first guy out from any of the top lines to make room for Nyquist, and it makes even more sense if he's not 100% physically.

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10-31-2011, 10:19 PM
  #93
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Ah yes, a young skilled ambitious kid will get a shot with Detroit.

I hope he burns the place down.

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10-31-2011, 10:47 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Frozen Fiend View Post
Ah yes, a young skilled ambitious kid will get a shot with Detroit.

I hope he burns the place down.
The great news is Nyquist is finally being given a legitimate shot. When Filppula was finally added to the team the Wings had originally signed Greg Johnson. So they just sent Filppula off to Grand Rapids to make sure he was over-ripe. They had literally no interest in having Filppula play in Detroit. Then Johnson was discovered to have an irregular heartbeat and his career was over. The Wings really didn't want to play Filppula in Detroit but they had no choice at that point.

So I'm with you, I hope Nyquist freaking kills it and never looks back. It's always a good sign when the Red Wings finally relent and give their talented younger players a roster spot with the big club. Filppula, Kronwall, Abdelkader, Helm and now Nyquist have all forced the team to bring them up before they were eligible for the waiver wire. Howard was forced to wait but has been NHL quality once the Red Wings gave him an honest shot to be a NHL'er.

Nyquist getting the call up is a great sign IMO.

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10-31-2011, 11:20 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Filppula View Post
I am so, so excited to see Gus' NHL debut tomorrow, absolutely cannot wait! I expect him to play on the 2nd line alongside Franzen and Zetterberg, and Flip will go to Dats' wing.
I could only hope that Filppula is on Datsyuk's wing, but for some reason Babcock always seems to shy away from that... Which i've always found bothersome considering how well they often look when they actually do get a shot together (such as game 2 against Phoenix, the 3rd period of game 6 against San Jose).

Watch it be Franzen and Holmstrom with Datsyuk. Wow, big change. Prove me wrong Babcock. I'm begging.

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Everyone wants to bench Hudler, but IMO, Cleary and Bertuzzi have been as bad or worse. Truth is, Cleary should sit until he's ready to return and play at full speed.
Indeed. Even when Cleary is healthy and 100% he's a tweener IMO. He can be very effective in a 2nd line role, but sometimes i feel like he needs to spend time in a 3rd line role to regain his work ethic and simplify his game. I don't and have rarely liked him on the top line with Datsyuk. He often times holds onto the puck too long to play alongside Pavel. It worked briefly when they played with Hudler last season, but Cleary wasn't handling the puck as much with those two. He simplified his game which is when he becomes most effective. When he starts playing like he's carrying a top line rather than being a complimentary piece it takes away from his game. And Bertuzzi has been non-existent. Not winning and battles and not really doing much of anything.

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11-01-2011, 12:27 AM
  #96
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I will say, playing Devil's Advocate and given Happy's playoff underperformances and blunders like his crushing hit of cleary or missing coverage on the GWG, that playing at this level is adding needed stock and wouldn't be surprised to see him get moved for an impact player at the deadline.
Playoff underperforming? He had a bad series against San Jose. Outside of that he's been very good in the playoffs. 2 points in 6 games in 2007, 14 points in 22 games in 2008, 12 points in 23 games in 2009, and 3 points in 4 games against Phoenix last year. That's 31 in 54, which is pretty damn good for a guy who averaged around 10-11 minutes per game across that span. One bad series. Even counting that bad series, he still has a higher PPG in the playoffs than he does in the regular season.

As for his "crushing hit" on Dan Cleary; Cleary had been digging along the boards, and Hudler had been skating out in open ice. Cleary made a sudden cut to open ice right in front of Hudler, and ended up getting rocked.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMPOMYBE_uw

As for the missed coverage...

Does these look similar?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaS4sbDyQh8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zsik5...eature=related

Hmm. I wonder why nobody is upset that Helm missed coverage. Hudler actually provided better coverage than Helm did; Boyle slipped by Helm completely unnoticed in Game 3; Hudler had his stick on Boyle in Game 4.

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Originally Posted by HockeyinHD View Post
Can we sucker Philly into trading for Cleary and Hudler at the deadline? We'll throw in Kindl and take back Briere and Coburn.
How about Meszaros instead? Coburn is UFA at year-end. Why not trade for Meszaros and then sign Coburn to replace Stuart?
Also, make it Ericsson instead of Kindl. He's bigger, more experienced, and is a Cup winner. He's obviously the better option.

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I hope he burns the place down.
Well, it is Detroit at the end of October...

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11-01-2011, 12:40 AM
  #97
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Hudler's name appears 21 times on this page alone.

Wait, 22.

We now bring you back to the Hudler Forum. All Hudler, all the time.

24.

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11-01-2011, 01:05 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Bench View Post
Hudler's name appears 21 times on this page alone.

Wait, 22.

We now bring you back to the Hudler Forum. All Hudler, all the time.

24.
If you think that's bad, check this out: http://hfboards.com/group.php?groupid=42

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11-01-2011, 01:26 AM
  #99
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QUESTION

Does Gustav Nyquist ever get press in the Swedish media?

Obviously he won't get anywhere near the kind of press that the Swedish media reserves for Zetterberg, who some might say doesn't even get the kind of press they gave to Forsberg. Not that is really, really matters but I would kind of hope that he gets a similar amount to Dick Axelsson of all people.


Last edited by FabricDetails: 11-01-2011 at 01:33 AM.
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11-01-2011, 01:33 AM
  #100
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If you think that's bad, check this out: http://hfboards.com/group.php?groupid=42
Nicccceee.

I think I discovered what the HF in HFBoards stands for.

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