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Is Claude Giroux The Best Player in the NHL

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Old
10-31-2011, 05:51 PM
  #76
Beef Invictus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rayzphan View Post
Ovis all hard shots and hard hits giroux is like a fine wine that also hits

if they didnt feel they gave richy the c too early giroux would be capt right now
.....right.

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10-31-2011, 05:59 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
.....right.
just watch the team man giroux is the leader out there. homer and crew dont want richy 2.0 they wanna give him time to grow and develop and be the capt richy just wouldnt or couldnt be

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10-31-2011, 06:08 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rayzphan View Post
just watch the team man giroux is the leader out there. homer and crew dont want richy 2.0 they wanna give him time to grow and develop and be the capt richy just wouldnt or couldnt be
Yeah, and OV is nothing special, right? Just hard shots and hard hits?

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10-31-2011, 06:51 PM
  #79
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my 2 cents

Giroux is Datsyuk lite, and Datsyuk might not even be in the top 10 (though he is a complete player, and you can't base his performance on stats alone, Much like Giroux)

so, no.

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10-31-2011, 06:51 PM
  #80
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Giroux has already become one of my favorite all time Flyers and I go back a ways longer than most of you. That said, this conversation screams of desperation and making up for some sort of inferiority complex. G's one of the most exciting players in the league, the most die hard Flyers haters won't argue against that. His productivity is catching up to his talent level now as well. Just sit back and enjoy the ride, don't impose a bunch of subjective BS on him, makes Flyers fans look as delusional as Pens fans to my eyes and that's painful to say. We can return to this sort of talk 5 years from now when there's some history and hopefully a Cup or two to add to the argument.

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10-31-2011, 07:36 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ApeZilla View Post
my 2 cents

Giroux is Datsyuk lite, and Datsyuk might not even be in the top 10 (though he is a complete player, and you can't base his performance on stats alone, Much like Giroux)

so, no.
Datsyuk is in the top ten in the NHL.. for all he brings to the table, there is no way he isn't in the top ten. Claude Giroux is definitely on his way to becoming an elite superstar in this league if he continues to develop. Amazing that he is only 23 and we have soooo many more years to watch his magic

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11-01-2011, 04:37 AM
  #82
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Datsyuk is in my top ten all day and tomorrow.

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11-01-2011, 10:30 AM
  #83
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No, not the best. Probably in the 8-12 range....

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Old
11-01-2011, 11:12 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton 22 View Post
Well if you aren't willing to look at only 1 year, then certainly it's impossible to rate him anywhere near the top of the league. But I personally don't see a reason why I can't judge players based off of what I've seen, so listing him that low seems absurd to me.
I'm not willing to look at only 1 year because it makes no sense in a conversation like this one. Is Daniel Sedin the best player in the league? Is Corey Perry the league's best goal scorer? Is Cheechoo good?

One year doesn't show you anything other than who had a good year. In order to be a top player in the league you have to be consistently at the top, not just one time.

You are calling Claude Giroux a better than top 15-20 offensive player when he: 1) has never had an 80 point season. 2) never had a ppg season. 3) only had 1 good year so far 4) never been top 10 in scoring.

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Most of the players who score more points than him are also worse defensively, by the way. That's why I don't see why he would be lower overall than just offensively..
Giroux is not great defensively, he's decent. There are players that are below him offensively (last year at least) that are much better than him defensively. Mike Richards for instance.

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And I'm not sure if that last part was meant to be sarcasm, but if not, then I'm glad you agree. I feel like it was sarcasm, but I assure you I've seen both play a ton and full-heartedly believe that Ovechkin is a joke outside of the offensive zone and I do not think he makes his teammates better even if he might inflate their stats.
It was actually meant to be a "?" not a period. Giroux plays decent defense and Ovechkin plays almost none. Ovechkin however, is in a completely different league than Giroux offensively. I wouldn't take Mike Richards in his 80 point year over Ovechkin, and he's much better defensively than Giroux.

I prefer two-way players that can score, like Sakic and Forsberg, to one dimensional guys that can score better like Jagr or Ovechkin. That said, Giroux does not play as good as defense as Sakic or Forsberg, and he has yet to provide the offense that they did either.

Ovechkin is one of a a handful of players who's defensive skill is offset by their overwhelming offense. He keeps other people from scoring because he is busy doing it himself.

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11-01-2011, 11:51 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ApeZilla View Post
my 2 cents

Giroux is Datsyuk lite, and Datsyuk might not even be in the top 10 (though he is a complete player, and you can't base his performance on stats alone, Much like Giroux)

so, no.
Datsyuk is not only in the top 10, he's the best forward in the entire NHL. Selke level defense with the ability to score 90 points.

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11-01-2011, 11:58 AM
  #86
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I don't think Giroux's defense is good enough to warrant being called Datsyuk-lite.

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11-01-2011, 12:10 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I don't think Giroux's defense is good enough to warrant being called Datsyuk-lite.
Honestly the only thing Giroux does better than Datsyuk is skate. And Datsyuk isn't exactly a slouch himself.

Take Claude Giroux, give him a harder, more accurate shot with a quicker release. Then give him the forearms of Thor and the most effective defensive stick work I've ever seen in the NHL (by a forward or defensemen). Then let him get ten years more experience in the game. Now you have Datsyuk. Giroux is more on the level of Datsyuk Ultra, like that lame Michelob with 4 calories. Sure you could compare it to a regular beer, and it's a valid comparison I guess, but it's still not nearly as good.

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Old
11-01-2011, 12:13 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I don't think Giroux's defense is good enough to warrant being called Datsyuk-lite.
This thread is kinda of pointless if ya think about it. Giroux is still so young and has plenty of time to become a top 5 player in the league. Amazing offensive talent and getting better on defense every year. Its a learning process for him and by the time he hits 25-31 the kid will probably be competing for the Art Ross if he keeps it up.

He's getting there but not quite yet when we are talking about overall as a player and not just offense. I do feel Giroux definitely has the possibility to win the Art Ross this year but defensively he just isnt there to be qualified as a top 5 player. Ya never know what can happen though! We shouldn't worry about this and just be happy he's a Flyer and not a Ranger or Penguin haha

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11-01-2011, 12:26 PM
  #89
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No but I would put him in the top 15.

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11-01-2011, 12:55 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 View Post
This thread is kinda of pointless if ya think about it. Giroux is still so young and has plenty of time to become a top 5 player in the league. Amazing offensive talent and getting better on defense every year. Its a learning process for him and by the time he hits 25-31 the kid will probably be competing for the Art Ross if he keeps it up.

He's getting there but not quite yet when we are talking about overall as a player and not just offense. I do feel Giroux definitely has the possibility to win the Art Ross this year but defensively he just isnt there to be qualified as a top 5 player. Ya never know what can happen though! We shouldn't worry about this and just be happy he's a Flyer and not a Ranger or Penguin haha
Amen to that.

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11-01-2011, 03:15 PM
  #91
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Where would he rank....umm.....top of mind:
1. Sidney Crosby
2. Pavel Datsyk
3. Alex Ovechkin
4. Daniel Sedin
5. Steven Stamkos
6. Henrik Sedin
7. Anze Kopitar
8. Ryan Getzlaf
9. Jon Towes
10. Evgeni Malkin
11. Henrik Zetterburg
12. Corey Perry
13. Martin St. Louis
14. Claude Giroux
15. Eric Staal
16. Ryan Kesler
17. Patrick Kane
18. Jerome Iginla
19. Joe Thornton
20.

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Old
11-01-2011, 03:23 PM
  #92
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I'd lump Kesler ahead of Giroux. He just won a Selke and I believe he's been a finalist a few times as well. I'd put Iginla ahead of him too.

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11-01-2011, 03:38 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I'd lump Kesler ahead of Giroux. He just won a Selke and I believe he's been a finalist a few times as well. I'd put Iginla ahead of him too.
agreed. barring an art ross victory this year (pffft), you can't call him the best given the current state of his defensive game, which isn't terrible but could definitely use a lot of improvement.

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11-01-2011, 03:46 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I'd lump Kesler ahead of Giroux. He just won a Selke and I believe he's been a finalist a few times as well. I'd put Iginla ahead of him too.
I agree on Kesler and Iginla. I think the point is.....he is closer than we may think. #1 overall, not even close.....but, he could be top 10 in a very short period of time. And that, is all good by me.

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11-01-2011, 04:36 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
Where would he rank....umm.....top of mind:
1. Sidney Crosby
2. Pavel Datsyk
3. Alex Ovechkin
4. Daniel Sedin
5. Steven Stamkos
6. Henrik Sedin
7. Anze Kopitar
8. Ryan Getzlaf
9. Jon Towes
10. Evgeni Malkin
11. Henrik Zetterburg
12. Corey Perry
13. Martin St. Louis
14. Claude Giroux
15. Eric Staal
16. Ryan Kesler
17. Patrick Kane
18. Jerome Iginla
19. Joe Thornton
20.
Malkin has yet to get back to top form. Thornton struggled last year.

I think by season's end Giroux and Jagr will both be in the top 10. That's my prediction.

I think Giroux is better than Iginla, Thornton, Staal, Kane and Towes at this point. As for Kesler, he's too high on the list.


Last edited by livewell68: 11-01-2011 at 04:43 PM.
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11-01-2011, 05:13 PM
  #96
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I think everyone is getting too caught up in numbers, awards, age, etc. He's not the best player in the game. But what I like is that on any night and against almost any team Giroux usually is the best player out there. To me its his consistently elevated competitiveness that sets him apart. He may not have the best numbers or the best defense in the game, but tbh ( and this may just be me wearing orange-tinted glasses), there's not many players I would rather have than Claude Giroux.

In fact, taking everything into account (age, cap hit, etc.), I cant think of one. I know that sounds ludicrous. He might just be the most valuable player in the game right now.

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11-01-2011, 05:41 PM
  #97
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Taking cap hit into account definitely adds a whole new dimension to the debate. When it comes to getting the most bang for your buck Giroux is definitely up there...Malkin would plummet down that list. 8.7ish mil per year for declining offensive production and absolutely terrible defense...ew.

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Old
11-01-2011, 07:51 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XS Chop View Post
Giroux has already become one of my favorite all time Flyers and I go back a ways longer than most of you. That said, this conversation screams of desperation and making up for some sort of inferiority complex. G's one of the most exciting players in the league, the most die hard Flyers haters won't argue against that. His productivity is catching up to his talent level now as well. Just sit back and enjoy the ride, don't impose a bunch of subjective BS on him, makes Flyers fans look as delusional as Pens fans to my eyes and that's painful to say. We can return to this sort of talk 5 years from now when there's some history and hopefully a Cup or two to add to the argument.
Very well said ! i agree with you. I hate players being put into a box or mold so early in their career !Roo is a really great talent,and fun to watch ! Who cares about the rest of the accolades.

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11-02-2011, 01:06 AM
  #99
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He may not be a top 5 player yet, but he's surely got to be in or around the top 5 for trade value? That contract....

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11-02-2011, 07:22 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by mdm815 View Post
there's not many players I would rather have than Claude Giroux.

In fact, taking everything into account (age, cap hit, etc.), I cant think of one. I know that sounds ludicrous. He might just be the most valuable player in the game right now.
Agreed. I remember the talk of Stamkos for Giroux. Hell no. There isn't a player in the NHL (taking cap hit/age/skill into account) I would trade G for. Not 1.

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