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The All-Purpose Toughness Thread

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Old
11-02-2011, 06:16 AM
  #951
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
well ****.... took the words out of my mouth. and i'd add to that hallucinations: yes subban was hit hard by thornton that game (you can call it run, i don't, but your point still stands), but the hits were legal. and no, our forwards were not 'harassed all night' by the bruins 'thugs'. you have a point on subban, but you throw whatever credibility it gives you with the following sentence. and nobody ran price in either of those two games against the bruins. you forgot that part.

also, SH, you seem to think that there are two groups of people: the one that want fight at the slightest provocations, and the one that hates fighting and want nothing to do with it. the truth lies somewhere in the middle...
Most of the attempts to hit Subban were definitely not legal, they were well late, having said that, Boston does this when they are being outplayed and losing. Poor sports more than anything else.

I'm still on the side that we need added toughness to initiate some of the fear/aggressiveness when things aren't going our way, but I didn't see a lack of toughness against the Bruin's. I thought our players were aggressive and showed no signs of backing down.

Falling for them B's goonery during those two games could have only benefited Boston, we didn't need it during those games, but I do believe there is a time and place and would like a guy or two capable.

Boston was running around, focused more on throwing hits, instigating non sense than playing hockey. The habs stuck within the game plan and dominated in puck possession and play in all 3 zones. I don't necessarily want toughness to cater to the B's antics, but to be able to lift our players a bit when things aren't working and to keep guys like Subban/cammy/pleks/ ect from having to deal with it.

As the games are called now, abuse, intimidation is allowed and only a fool would not attempt to have that added element when things aren't going well.

Myself and mike8 chose to start this thread, although we kind of abandoned it's initial purpose, he was leaning one way, I was leaning the other. I haven't changed my opinion much, other than to say, if Montreal keeps playing the aggressive forecheck, defending Price ect that I have seen from the beginning of the year, the lack of toughness arguments from habs fans are over exaggerated imo.

My only question is will the smaller guys be able to keep it up over 82 games, to this point that have done well. Not a single game that I have watched was won or lost by intimidation, not to say it can't or doesn't play a role, to this point, we've been better than every team we faced, aside from Pittsburgh. If that continues the habs will be in the top 4 or 5 teams in the East, even with the poor start.

Edit: This may be a stretch, but after Perry Pearn was fired, which I was a critic of. I've even seen more subtle changes as far as aggressiveness, protection of price and team mates quick to support each other during scrums ect than they already displayed previously.

Could this be part of the thinking out of the box, philosophical changes PG was referring to? I've certainly seen evidence of a more cohesive unit in that respect, whether it was primarily a result of a desperate hockey club or change in approach is anyone's guess.


Last edited by habsjunkie2*: 11-02-2011 at 06:27 AM.
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Old
11-02-2011, 09:15 AM
  #952
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good post. just this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
Most of the attempts to hit Subban were definitely not legal, they were well late, having said that, Boston does this when they are being outplayed and losing. Poor sports more than anything else.
they were a bit late yes, but the ref chose not to call them, ergo, legal. borderline is probably a better word for it. and somebody should have gone over to thornton to remind him not to do that but be honest, not many players can do that. props to moen for trying, but the man is outclassed by thornton

agree with pretty much everything else you said and will add that our 4th line needs to be better. moen - nok - white is good (god i miss white), but it could be even better by adding a useful heavyweight, E.G., thornton. not a 'John Scott' type of heavyweight, don't need that. but it will be a good energy line nonetheless

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Old
11-02-2011, 11:45 AM
  #953
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
well ****.... took the words out of my mouth. and i'd add to that hallucinations: yes subban was hit hard by thornton that game (you can call it run, i don't, but your point still stands), but the hits were legal. and no, our forwards were not 'harassed all night' by the bruins 'thugs'. you have a point on subban, but you throw whatever credibility it gives you with the following sentence. and nobody ran price in either of those two games against the bruins. you forgot that part.

also, SH, you seem to think that there are two groups of people: the one that want fight at the slightest provocations, and the one that hates fighting and want nothing to do with it. the truth lies somewhere in the middle...
The hit that Campbell laid on Kuba was called a penalty. That didnt stop Zack Smith from standing up to Campbell and drop the gloves (the linesmen stopped them from fighting but Smith got his chance to take care of Campbell in the 3rd).

Kuba is an important DMan for the Sens, just like Subban is for us. Thornton should have been called to task for the forearm he laid on Subban that was NOT called a penalty by the refs.

If Thornton, Lucic, Horton getting in the face and shoving Gionta isnt harrassment, what is?

Price was not run by the Bruins. Everything else is absolved and we do not need a tougher team.

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Old
11-02-2011, 02:55 PM
  #954
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
Most of the attempts to hit Subban were definitely not legal, they were well late, having said that, Boston does this when they are being outplayed and losing. Poor sports more than anything else.

I'm still on the side that we need added toughness to initiate some of the fear/aggressiveness when things aren't going our way, but I didn't see a lack of toughness against the Bruin's. I thought our players were aggressive and showed no signs of backing down.

Falling for them B's goonery during those two games could have only benefited Boston, we didn't need it during those games, but I do believe there is a time and place and would like a guy or two capable.

Boston was running around, focused more on throwing hits, instigating non sense than playing hockey. The habs stuck within the game plan and dominated in puck possession and play in all 3 zones. I don't necessarily want toughness to cater to the B's antics, but to be able to lift our players a bit when things aren't working and to keep guys like Subban/cammy/pleks/ ect from having to deal with it.

As the games are called now, abuse, intimidation is allowed and only a fool would not attempt to have that added element when things aren't going well.

Myself and mike8 chose to start this thread, although we kind of abandoned it's initial purpose, he was leaning one way, I was leaning the other. I haven't changed my opinion much, other than to say, if Montreal keeps playing the aggressive forecheck, defending Price ect that I have seen from the beginning of the year, the lack of toughness arguments from habs fans are over exaggerated imo.

My only question is will the smaller guys be able to keep it up over 82 games, to this point that have done well. Not a single game that I have watched was won or lost by intimidation, not to say it can't or doesn't play a role, to this point, we've been better than every team we faced, aside from Pittsburgh. If that continues the habs will be in the top 4 or 5 teams in the East, even with the poor start.

Edit: This may be a stretch, but after Perry Pearn was fired, which I was a critic of. I've even seen more subtle changes as far as aggressiveness, protection of price and team mates quick to support each other during scrums ect than they already displayed previously.

Could this be part of the thinking out of the box, philosophical changes PG was referring to? I've certainly seen evidence of a more cohesive unit in that respect, whether it was primarily a result of a desperate hockey club or change in approach is anyone's guess.
If Pearn had so much (bad) influence, HIm and Martin should had been fired together.

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Old
11-02-2011, 03:28 PM
  #955
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
The hit that Campbell laid on Kuba was called a penalty. That didnt stop Zack Smith from standing up to Campbell and drop the gloves (the linesmen stopped them from fighting but Smith got his chance to take care of Campbell in the 3rd).

Kuba is an important DMan for the Sens, just like Subban is for us. Thornton should have been called to task for the forearm he laid on Subban that was NOT called a penalty by the refs.

If Thornton, Lucic, Horton getting in the face and shoving Gionta isnt harrassment, what is?

Price was not run by the Bruins. Everything else is absolved and we do not need a tougher team.
so this is going nowhere. so i propose this, instead of nitpicking and choosing particular moment where one of our players was roughed up, tell me what you would concretely do about it. because right now this is pointless, everyone of your post is basically a facsimile of other posts you've made before: [complain] [example] [example] [complain] [sarcastic comment].

i don't mean this in a sarcastic or condescending way at all but, we get it. now, to advance the discussion, if you were GM, what would you do about it?

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Old
11-02-2011, 05:01 PM
  #956
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
If Pearn had so much (bad) influence, HIm and Martin should had been fired together.
Never said I was a fan of the move. I was only stating that changes seemed to be made on the ice, whether it had anything to do with Pearn is doubtful.

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Old
11-02-2011, 05:39 PM
  #957
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
so this is going nowhere. so i propose this, instead of nitpicking and choosing particular moment where one of our players was roughed up, tell me what you would concretely do about it. because right now this is pointless, everyone of your post is basically a facsimile of other posts you've made before: [complain] [example] [example] [complain] [sarcastic comment].

i don't mean this in a sarcastic or condescending way at all but, we get it. now, to advance the discussion, if you were GM, what would you do about it?
Sure. No problem.

Top three lines pretty much as they are now. Fourth line would be Blunden (until White gets back), Rupp, Eager.

Defense would be Wisniewski, Shane O'Brien, Subban, Gorges, Ian White, Markov, Weber.

But to your point, you may "get it" but I catch grief every time I post about the lack of toughness on this team. So can you do me a favor? When you see a poster who likes our team soft as it is, can you please put up a couple of [.................] about their comments as well? You know, fair and balanced.

Thanks

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Old
11-02-2011, 06:44 PM
  #958
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
so this is going nowhere. so i propose this, instead of nitpicking and choosing particular moment where one of our players was roughed up, tell me what you would concretely do about it. because right now this is pointless, everyone of your post is basically a facsimile of other posts you've made before: [complain] [example] [example] [complain] [sarcastic comment].

i don't mean this in a sarcastic or condescending way at all but, we get it. now, to advance the discussion, if you were GM, what would you do about it?
I'm sorry my friend, but this post is so full of irony.

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