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Old
11-01-2011, 07:32 PM
  #51
wej20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggyjoe21 View Post
I'm on the fence about Fleury. On one hand he's our franchise goalie. If he would add some consistency to his game he would be up in the "elite" category. On the other hand, Brent Johnson puts up the same stats as Fleury. I don't know if BJ would be as effective as fleury in the playoffs, but don't forget Fleury lost us the series vs Montreal just as much as Halak won it for the Habs.

If we could re-sign him to a reasonable amount I wouldn't be against it. I just don't want him to be paid like an elite goalie.


Sid, Geno, and Letang are unmovable. Fleury shouldn't be moved unless we have a good replacement. Staal can be replaced, but I hope we keep him for a reasonable price.
Johnson would break down very quickly if he had to handle number 1 goalie duty.

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Old
11-01-2011, 07:35 PM
  #52
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Comparing a back up goaltenders stats to the starters is apples and oranges.

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Old
11-01-2011, 07:49 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Fleury's going nowhere. Return on goaltenders isn't very high and it certainly isn't worth the risk of having a goalie merry go round ala Philly. We know Fleury is a Cup winning caliber goaltender and he is just now entering his prime.

I'd argue our core is Sid, Geno and Fleury. Letang, Staal and Neal next in importance.
So you are saying that Fleury is head and shoulders above every other goalie in the league?

I think we are miscommunicating though. I do not want to get rid of anyone. I can think of deals though that I would take for everyone but Malkin and Crosby. They are pretty unique and rare talents. The others are talents that other teams have similar too and if they would massively overpay, sure why not? I can not think of a single offer anyone could make for Malkin or Crosby I could say the same for in a cap world.

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Old
11-01-2011, 08:19 PM
  #54
mpp9
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Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
So you are saying that Fleury is head and shoulders above every other goalie in the league?

I think we are miscommunicating though. I do not want to get rid of anyone. I can think of deals though that I would take for everyone but Malkin and Crosby. They are pretty unique and rare talents. The others are talents that other teams have similar too and if they would massively overpay, sure why not? I can not think of a single offer anyone could make for Malkin or Crosby I could say the same for in a cap world.
We certainly are miscommunicating b/c I never said Fleury was the best in the league. But you don't trade your franchise goalie who has taken you to the Cup finals twice, won a Cup and is just now entering his prime. He could very well push for a Vezina these next few years with how solid he's been for us.

I agree that Sid/Geno would destroy a team's future with how much it'd cost to get them via trade. If say, Geno was traded, it'd have to be a WC team which basically limits us to a deal like Perry++. Still wouldn't be fair value to us.

I think we're more than capable of keeping our team together. Shero has Despres and Morrow capable of stepping in before Geno's current contract ends, so if we need to trade one of our top 4 D-men, we're able to sustain the loss. If one of Bennett/Tangradi can play in the top 6 on the cheap before then also, then I'd say we're good to go.

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Old
11-01-2011, 08:37 PM
  #55
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I can see Geno and Sid resigning for the $8.7mil for 5-6 years. Its good money and it allows Shero to put talent around them. I don't see either of them being the guys that take the extra mil over the team. But I could be naive.

Fleury, as long as he remains on the top, gotta keep him.

Letang needs to stay as well. Hard to determine his salary...but him commanding $6-7mil could be damaging even though he deserves it. $5mil for 5 would be awesome.

Staal...$4mil and not a penny more. Don't like it, move on and then pick up a winger.

Neal...sign this kid like yesterday!

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Old
11-01-2011, 08:54 PM
  #56
Mo Wanchuk
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Keep all 4. Question for you all, would you rather keep Staal or Neal (consider their caphit to be similar)?

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Old
11-01-2011, 09:11 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Mo Wanchuk View Post
Keep all 4. Question for you all, would you rather keep Staal or Neal (consider their caphit to be similar)?
Neal...but its close

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Old
11-01-2011, 09:12 PM
  #58
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Neal

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Old
11-01-2011, 09:16 PM
  #59
mpp9
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We know Shero is going to resign Neal, period. So it really isn't a realistic question.

If Staal keeps playing the way he has, his numbers aren't going to be too far off from Neal. Add in his ability to play against the top players in the game, it's close.

Neal fits this system perfectly and is only going to get better. I'd almost choose Staal+Neal over Malkin, almost.

Shero would answer Staal I'd imagine.

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Old
11-01-2011, 09:36 PM
  #60
Ragamuffin Gunner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo Wanchuk View Post
Keep all 4. Question for you all, would you rather keep Staal or Neal (consider their caphit to be similar)?
Staal pretty easily. A scoring winger is much easier to replace than a 23 y/o Selke caliber center who's 6' 4" and a PO beast.

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Old
11-01-2011, 09:53 PM
  #61
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I think with the rising cap, and the fact that most of these players aren't over performing on their contracts by a great margin, I don't believe there will be the re-signing issue that some see happening.

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Old
11-01-2011, 09:56 PM
  #62
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I don't think there will be either. I've said before, I'll be surprised if it costs more than a million to re-sign Crosby, Malkin, and Staal.

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Old
11-01-2011, 09:58 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
Staal pretty easily. A scoring winger is much easier to replace than a 23 y/o Selke caliber center who's 6' 4" and a PO beast.
I love the way Neal is playing and I'm sure Shero does too. Having said that, this is probably right.

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Old
11-01-2011, 10:02 PM
  #64
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How much of this will be dependent on the upcoming CBA?

Will Shero wait and see how that plays out first? Or will he go ahead and extend what contracts he can before September? Which, would be Crosby and Staal, I think.

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Old
11-01-2011, 10:06 PM
  #65
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Priority one:
Crosby

Then:
Letang
Fleury

Then:
Orpik
Malkin
Staal
Michalek
Martin
Neal

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Old
11-01-2011, 10:11 PM
  #66
TopShelfGoal
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It does make you wonder tho...Are any of them willing to take a discount just to keep the core together. This is a special team. They've battled together. Won and lost together. Seems there's no bad blood between teammates in that locker room. I wouldn't want to leave that.

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Old
11-01-2011, 10:16 PM
  #67
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Malkin+TK+Staal+Letestu to Ducks for Ryan+Perry+Getzlaf. Added TK for cap purposes, and Letestu for a change of scenery.

Kunitz-Crosby-Neal
Ryan-Getzlaf-Perry
Cooke-Jeffrey-Dupuis
Asham-Vitale-Adams

It wont happen, but i'm just dreaming of that lineup and i'd trade Malkin to get it, we would be unstoppable every single year. As for the topic? I consider the core players Crosby, Malkin, Fleury in that order! Letang, Staal, Neal the rung below...not quite core, and tradeable for the right price (which would be alot).

Crosby 8M for 7 years (8.7 that equals)
Malkin 8M for 7 years
Fleury 6M for 7 years

Our Core get 7 years.

Letang 6M for 6 years
Staal 5M for 6 years
Neal 4.5M for 6 years

Our rung below core gets 6 years. Then the rest get 5 and below. A team must consist of 3 CORE players only IMO, you can't keep adding to that, or it's just silly....Pens fans here are better then alot of HF posters, as they would have all their good players untouchable and still want good returns, and Pens fans would offer up players like Staal, Letang, etc in deals, because we are realistic, not wishfull thinking.

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Old
11-01-2011, 10:18 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TopShelfGoal View Post
It does make you wonder tho...Are any of them willing to take a discount just to keep the core together. This is a special team. They've battled together. Won and lost together. Seems there's no bad blood between teammates in that locker room. I wouldn't want to leave that.
With the way the league is constructed, it is more likely than it would have been in the 90s. No team can spend too much on one of them and be able to ice a team comparable to what they would have if they take less to stay here. All of these guys are gonna get good money and I think most of them will take a little less in order to stay together. It is not like Talbot who received an offer he simply couldn't refuse. Our core guys are stars, they're gonna get paid like stars no matter what.

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Old
11-01-2011, 10:18 PM
  #69
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Crosby a no brainer. Malkin is a enigma.. When he on top of his game he's a top three player in the world.. You know who the other two are. And With said you don't trade or not resign world class talent like that. They don't come too often. So I would say Malkin a second priority and Staal a third. Crosby / Malkin @ 8.7 for 5 yrs each and Staal at 4.5 mill for 4-6 years.. Remember Shero's plan with this team is strength down the middle.. So after that would come our top for Defenseman and MAF. And I would follow his lead "in shero we trust"

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Old
11-01-2011, 11:28 PM
  #70
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Crosby is the first priority, keeping Gino and Fleury is second, and Staal and Letang are third, then Neal fourth. I Think Shero will keep all six of those core players together and build a team around them

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Old
11-01-2011, 11:34 PM
  #71
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Woops double post

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Old
11-01-2011, 11:54 PM
  #72
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Crosby 9
Malkin 8
Staal 4.5
Neal 4.5
Letang 3.5 (signed through 2014. I assume he'll get around $6m in 2014)
Martin 5
Michalek 4
Fleury 5.5

$44 million dollars tied up in these 8 core players according to my guesses and estimates for 3 years down the road. All are signed through and/or will almost surely be here in 3+ seasons. Even if this number moves up to ~$50m, Shero will have around $20m to sign the remaining 10-12 roster players (assuming cap will raise to $70m in 3 years). IMO, it's very do-able. Shero always signs several effective players near the league minimum, a la Asham, Vitale, Johnson, Adams, etc.

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Old
11-01-2011, 11:59 PM
  #73
Jules Winnfield
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Of course I sign Crosby, Malkin, Staal, and Fleury. If it means sacrificing Martin, buh bye.

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Old
11-02-2011, 02:52 AM
  #74
Darth Vitale
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Assuming return to health for Sid and Geno without relapse, and based on good performances from all, the priority in the next couple years, based on our positional depth has to be:

1. Sid
2. Fleury
3. Malkin
3. Neal
5. Staal

Staal is a half level behind these guys in the kind of money he can command for his position, based on who else is on the roster at his position. While he has been playing better lately and coming along offensively, we can't afford to have three big C contracts if we want to stay competitive. Not unless cap goes up quite a bit.

I wouldn't want to see this team operating with a FA goalie floating around out there (like Vokoun will be cheap next summer), or relying on a rookie or Brent Johnson. I also wouldn't want to see a return to the days where Dupuis spends regular time in the Top 6. If what we want is balance, those guys have to be the order of priority IMO.

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Old
11-02-2011, 05:39 AM
  #75
Ogrezilla
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
Staal pretty easily. A scoring winger is much easier to replace than a 23 y/o Selke caliber center who's 6' 4" and a PO beast.
Neal isn't out there floating around cherry picking for goals though. He has been one of our best players without the puck too. I'm not saying Staal isn't above Neal, but it's not easy in my eyes.

I'd also factor in that Staal is the third best center on a team full of centers while Neal is the best winger on a team full of centers.

In any event, I expect us to keep both.

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