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The All-Purpose Toughness Thread (Part 2)

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Old
11-03-2011, 08:23 AM
  #1
hototogisu
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The All-Purpose Toughness Thread (Part 2)

Part one: http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=996179

Continue here.

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11-03-2011, 09:28 AM
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habs03
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Since we acquired our "smurfs" we are 11-3 vs one of the "toughest" team in league, the Bruins.

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11-03-2011, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
Since we acquired our "smurfs" we are 11-3 vs one of the "toughest" team in league, the Bruins.
Yet they've won a cup a we haven't - and that is the bottom line - not your record against one team.


Last edited by gusfring: 11-03-2011 at 11:35 AM.
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11-03-2011, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
Since we acquired our "smurfs" we are 11-3 vs one of the "toughest" team in league, the Bruins.
0-1 in the playoffs though.

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11-03-2011, 10:59 AM
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Yet they've won a cup a we haven't - and that is the bottom - not your record against one team.
Big picture anyone?

Great post.

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11-03-2011, 11:42 AM
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Big picture anyone?

Great post.
That's actually the small picture, not the big one.

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11-03-2011, 11:52 AM
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another "tough guy" on waivers Matt Kassian from Minnesota...

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11-03-2011, 12:03 PM
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another "tough guy" on waivers Matt Kassian from Minnesota...
If they passed on DJ King and countless others then this is pretty much a moot point. It won't happen with JM and PF here.

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11-03-2011, 12:05 PM
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If they passed on DJ King and countless others then this is pretty much a moot point. It won't happen with JM and PF here.
I think you're either missing his point or willfully ignoring it.

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11-03-2011, 12:10 PM
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I am one of those who say that we need more toughness since Laraque is gone.

Last year was painful to watch (particularly before White call-up and Mara's trade). We were very intimidated and other teams were full of physical players, goons, every nights.

But let's face it, this year is not the same game. The only problem is that we play the Bruins 6 times per year... Even Toronto now has only Mike Brown as a regular ''fighter''. Orr played 2 games and Rosehill 4. Parros has been healthy scratch, Barch played 3 games, Gillies is on the minors, King did not play yet, Konopka play 1 game on 2 and I pass.

I really think that with Moen and White, we are an average team in the toughness department (whitout White it's an other story). But maybe we can use a real tough guy as 13th forward who play 10 games per year just to have something for the classless Bruins. And I really think that we need a big physical D like Shane O'Brien, Sheldon Brookbank etc.

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11-03-2011, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Aurel Joliat View Post
I am one of those who say that we need more toughness since Laraque is gone.

Last year was painful to watch (particularly before White call-up and Mara's trade). We were very intimidated and other teams were full of physical players, goons, every nights.

But let's face it, this year is not the same game. The only problem is that we play the Bruins 6 times per year... Even Toronto now has only Mike Brown as a regular ''fighter''. Orr played 2 games and Rosehill 4. Parros has been healthy scratch, Barch played 3 games, Gillies is on the minors, King did not play yet, Konopka play 1 game on 2 and I pass.

I really think that with Moen and White, we are an average team in the toughness department (whitout White it's an other story). But maybe we can use a real tough guy as 13th forward who play 10 games per year just to have something for the classless Bruins. And I really think that we need a big physical D like Shane O'Brien, Sheldon Brookbank etc.
Games won by the Habs-2
Games won by the Bruins-0
Habs injuries in the Bruins games-0

We're fine.

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11-03-2011, 12:16 PM
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I was in the camp of adding a heavy to deal with Boston. However after the last home and home, my opinion has changed. The sweep, plus Moen going toe to toe with Thornton and earning a draw, showed me have enough toughness. Once White gets healthy and Tinordi and Schultz are up, and once Thornton and Chara have retired and/or moved on, I suspect the tables will have turned... poor Lucic will be crying for his momma!

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11-03-2011, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
I was in the camp of adding a heavy to deal with Boston. However after the last home and home, my opinion has changed. The sweep, plus Moen going toe to toe with Thornton and earning a draw, showed me have enough toughness
Maybe not ''enough'', but that was a key moment of the rivalry with the Bruins I think. Thornton always do what he wants, knowing that we have nobody to face him. But now that their best fighter was not able to beat one of our player, I think that will give a lot of cofidence to our team !

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11-03-2011, 12:33 PM
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Once again D Clarkson please. That's all.

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11-03-2011, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
I was in the camp of adding a heavy to deal with Boston. However after the last home and home, my opinion has changed. The sweep, plus Moen going toe to toe with Thornton and earning a draw, showed me have enough toughness. Once White gets healthy and Tinordi and Schultz are up, and once Thornton and Chara have retired and/or moved on, I suspect the tables will have turned... poor Lucic will be crying for his momma!
He didn't go toe to toe with Thornton, he held on for dear life at the end. Toe to toe, he would be on the LTIR right now.


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11-03-2011, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
He didn't go toe to toe with Thornton, he held on for dear life at the end. Toe to toe, he would be on the LTIR right now.

go to 0:19, how's that not toe to toe?

Toe to toe means to square up and go, and that's what they did. Thornton went after Moen, Moen dropped them and the two went and Moen held his own.

We hardly needed a big stiff like John Scott on the ice...

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Old
11-03-2011, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurel Joliat View Post
I am one of those who say that we need more toughness since Laraque is gone.

Last year was painful to watch (particularly before White call-up and Mara's trade). We were very intimidated and other teams were full of physical players, goons, every nights.

But let's face it, this year is not the same game. The only problem is that we play the Bruins 6 times per year... Even Toronto now has only Mike Brown as a regular ''fighter''. Orr played 2 games and Rosehill 4. Parros has been healthy scratch, Barch played 3 games, Gillies is on the minors, King did not play yet, Konopka play 1 game on 2 and I pass.

I really think that with Moen and White, we are an average team in the toughness department (whitout White it's an other story). But maybe we can use a real tough guy as 13th forward who play 10 games per year just to have something for the classless Bruins. And I really think that we need a big physical D like Shane O'Brien, Sheldon Brookbank etc.
I disagree with this point, I don't see how any of the players were intimidated, even after the 8-6 game vs the Bruins with all the fights, the next game vs the Bruins we beat them easily 4-1.

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11-03-2011, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by nittany View Post
Yet they've won a cup a we haven't - and that is the bottom line - not your record against one team.
Was toughness the reason they won the cup? Marchand/Krejci play was the reason, not Shawn Thornton toughness.

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11-03-2011, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post

go to 0:19, how's that not toe to toe?

Toe to toe means to square up and go, and that's what they did. Thornton went after Moen, Moen dropped them and the two went and Moen held his own.

We hardly needed a big stiff like John Scott on the ice...
I beg to differ. This is where the term toe to toe comes from.

Man JK was awesome at what he did. R.I.P big man. Just listen to the crowd, almost as loud as a over time goal. Sniff sniff i miss it.



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11-03-2011, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
I beg to differ. This is where the term toe to toe comes from.
"Toe to Toe" means exactly what it says. To square up toe to toe. That's what Moen did with Thornton last saturday...

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11-03-2011, 01:28 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
Was toughness the reason they won the cup? Marchand/Krejci play was the reason, not Shawn Thornton toughness.
Many have pointed out that Vancouver were intimidated in that final and I agree.

It was not the only reason but it was a factor.

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11-03-2011, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
"Toe to Toe" means exactly what it says. To square up toe to toe. That's what Moen did with Thornton last saturday...
Yes ok, you are right.

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11-03-2011, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by nittany View Post
Many have pointed out that Vancouver were intimidated in that final and I agree.

It was not the only reason but it was a factor.
Very true, but being intimidated has nothing to do with physical toughness but all mental toughness. And imo none of our players were intimidated by Bruins. I don't think Gionta/Cammy/ would just stand there getting punched by Marchand.

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11-03-2011, 04:35 PM
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Many have pointed out that Vancouver were intimidated in that final and I agree.

It was not the only reason but it was a factor.
That's what I can't stand about the "Gautier way" protectors. They just can't admit that thoughness is PART of the big picture. They just throw back comments about us wanting to have a team of goons, or saying that we managed to beat X tough team on X date. You know what, 8th seed teams with no 30-40 goal scorers have made it all the way to the stanley cup. Does that mean that having stars is useless too then? In life just like in hockey, you can always manage when things aren't 100%, but seriously,why do it? As we've pointed a bunch of times, change Mathieu Darche for a real 4th line grinder, get 1 hard-hitting defensmen and the toughness issue becomes obsolete, done, over! It's part of the show and it's part of having a winning formula.

Think about it, we got to the playoffs the last 5-6 years with no powerforwards at all. We have 2 this season, are we better because of it?

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11-03-2011, 04:50 PM
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That's what I can't stand about the "Gautier way" protectors. They just can't admit that thoughness is PART of the big picture. They just throw back comments about us wanting to have a team of goons, or saying that we managed to beat X tough team on X date. You know what, 8th seed teams with no 30-40 goal scorers have made it all the way to the stanley cup. Does that mean that having stars is useless too then? In life just like in hockey, you can always manage when things aren't 100%, but seriously,why do it? As we've pointed a bunch of times, change Mathieu Darche for a real 4th line grinder, get 1 hard-hitting defensmen and the toughness issue becomes obsolete, done, over! It's part of the show and it's part of having a winning formula.

Think about it, we got to the playoffs the last 5-6 years with no powerforwards at all. We have 2 this season, are we better because of it?
How many friggen times do you need to get quoted over and OVER AND OVER again, by people telling you that NO ONE on these forums thinks toughness is not part of the game. YES IT IS.
How can people not throw the "goon" word out there, when every time a washed up goon hits waivers a bunch of people are like "OMG GIillis, PG is sleeping again". That is NOT thoroughness. What is of discussion, is that a guy who spends more time in the penalty box then on the ice, is obviously not useful to the "big picture". Were people dont agree, is on the definition of "thoughness" and the effect of "intimidation" what acts are actually intimidating.

Also for intimidation, a guy who hammers peoples into boards, will create a "intimidation" effect, but a guy who is on the bench all game, and comes out to fight, is NOT intimidating, since everyone knows you can ignore. You can't ignore a hitting train though, so there is a difference.


Last edited by uiCk: 11-03-2011 at 04:55 PM.
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