IMO, it is unfair of that franchise to ask Doan to re-sign with them at this point in his career given the uncertain status of their ownership and location. He has been everything they could have hoped for in terms of a face for the franchise, but how about giving the guy a shot to end his career with a championship?
No offense to you as a Coyotes fan or to that franchise, who I think have done a tremendous job given the circumstances, but I don't think the Coyotes are a Stanley Cup contending team, nor will be in the next 2-3 seasons. They are an above average and competitive team, and they have a lot of bright spots, but they don't have enough. I don't think Doan is going to get a ring in Phoenix.
I say, if he's down, then they should be, too.
You are taking a somewhat narrow position that the be all for every player is playing for a contender. Thank God there are still some very special old school players out there who are loyal to their franchise and their city and not hired guns. I am certain that if Doan wanted to be traded (which he has told me personally that he does not) he would be accomodated but that's simply not what he or the Coyotes want.
Would you rather trade some our expendable yet valuable guys (Dubi, AA, etc.) for a guy like Bobby Ryan or a Weber/Suter? Personally I would go for Weber. Could happen, as I believe we have the assets to land him. Question: what would it take?
Dubinsky+Girardi+Miller/Kreider+1st? Is that a good start or maybe even enough? Feel free to flame, I'm just trying to gauge what NSH would want from us.
Personally I feel adding Weber to a d-corps of (a hopefully healthy) Staal, McD, and Sauer makes our top-4 a top-3 unit in the league. Never mind what he would do for our PP and just his presence on the team. Would be an absolute legend here.
No on moving Kreider. He's worth keeping almost unconditionally.
I've looked at this road.
Ryan would take healthy Staal + Dubi, minimum, IMO, not sure worth it.
Weber worth more to Preds, but on the boards it has been reported he wants to go to Vancouver, which someone said is home for him.
If that is true, the closer we get to the end of Weber's contract (next year), the more Preds will be compelled to consider moving him for less --- do not want another fiasco like Dallas had w/Brad Richards leaving for nothing.
However, you have pretty much all competitive/money teams (perhaps 20?) vying for this one guy, so competition will drive the price up to a point.
Suter is UFA at year's end, I believe, and Preds will try to keep, IMO, perhaps letting Weber go to make that happen.
Last edited by bernmeister: 11-04-2011 at 09:40 PM.
Reason: typo
I think the Rangers are approaching that point where they'll deal some pieces for a serious upgrade. However, I don't think we'll see that until we see what Kreider can do at the next level. A lot is hinging on what he can potentially bring to the table, and I don't think we'll see that "big move" made this year. Especially with Staal likely out of the lineup until after Christmas.
Anaheim has no reason to trade Ryan, and I think there will be another Richards situation with Suter in Nashville. They need him to make the playoffs, but the contract dispute might go on for a while.
More than likely. It would behoove them to see what the deal with Kreider is before they commit to moving any major pieces. I'm still of the opinion that Dubinsky is one of the likeliest players to be dealt in an upgrade scenario, and they would certainly need to be more comfrotable with Kreider's future for that to happen.
It will be interesting to see how the Nashville situation plays out, as I believe the Rangers will have interest if one of the defensemen becomes available.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbop
You are taking a somewhat narrow position that the be all for every player is playing for a contender. Thank God there are still some very special old school players out there who are loyal to their franchise and their city and not hired guns. I am certain that if Doan wanted to be traded (which he has told me personally that he does not) he would be accomodated but that's simply not what he or the Coyotes want.
That's fine. If he doesn't want it, then it's a non-issue. If he doesn't want it, I salute him for it. That's refreshing, and a great thing for their team. It doesn't upset me in the least. I will say, though, that even if he did say that (and meant it), I still wouldn't be surprised if he changed his mind if the situation came to a head. All I'm saying is that if he is willing to do it, then the Yotes should do it, and the Rangers should and will be a prime competitor for his services.
I would sit very tight on trading anything right now if I was Sather. What we do have is a good core of players such as Callahan, Dubinsky, McD, Staal, Sauer etc. These are obviously players we do not want to part with anytime soon as it would probably cause some havoc in the dressing room and we're not playing that bad right now to shake things up.
Our trade assets are basically Wolski, MZA + prospects and picks. Prospects we want to keep, and same with picks. Wolski and MZA are at an all-time low value. What I'd do is ride this season out. Let MZA and Wolski go without qualifying them. That frees up about 5,5 million. Avery will be an UFA, so that's another 2 million. To add, we also get another 2 million from Drury's carryover going from 3,7 to 1,7 million. In total, that's 9-10 million which we could and SHOULD spend on a UFA (Parise comes to mind).
Signing a high-profile UFA to a contract at about 6-7 million gives us plenty of cap space to sign remaining RFA's and UFA's that we'd like to keep, and the only one I can see is MDZ who might get a little raise being an RFA, and some depth players and prospects in the AHL. For the players on the Rangers roster, I don't see Fedotenko, Christensen or Prust getting much of a raise, all of them being UFA's.
Where are the Rangers finding $7M to pay Suter? The cap is going down in the next CBA. Weber is going to receive his current salary in a long term deal in the near future. Where is that money coming from? The cap is not going to increase from $39M-$64.3M in the next CBA. You make the argument $64.3M is too high right now.
Gary Bettman is not going to open the doors to training camp with the players receiving 57% of the pie. The NBA players will get 50%-52% in their next deal.
The cap was set at $39M and then the system kicked in. The next upper limit could be set in the mid to upper $50M plus range. Brooks has written the current midpoint of $56M would be the upper limit in the first year of the new CBA. Pierre LeBrun has been writing for over 1 year about the cap being lowered.
By sending Dubinsky the other direction along with LTIR relief.. No way Suter is going to command 7 mil per...He's a 5 mil per MAX anywhere but maybe the KHL ... IMO
I don't think the new CBA is going to have the ramifications some pundits are alluding to. Given the issues in the NFL and NBA, I think the NHL is going to do everything they can make a smooth transition. Another lockout, or even a stalemate, would set the business back several years at least.
That being said, I don't see this team investing in another $6M+ per year contract unless Dubinsky is dealt somewhere along the lines. New CBA or not, it's just not feasible to carry that many huge contracts on the books.
By sending Dubinsky the other direction along with LTIR relief.. No way Suter is going to command 7 mil per...He's a 5 mil per MAX anywhere but maybe the KHL ... IMO
Suter is a top-5 defenseman in the NHL RIGHT NOW. He is, IMO, better than Weber at everything except shooting hard. He is a exceptional skater and is a true #1 defenseman at the ripe old age of what, 24-25? He has playoff experience and plays, consistently, 26-28 minutes a night in all situations.
Also, anybody think we could buy low on Paajarvi???
I would give up one of the young defenseman the Rangers have + for Paajarvi. Something like:
MDZ + Thomas
or
Sauer
for Paajarvi.
I absolutely LOVE the way that kid plays the game and between he and Kreider the Rangers would significantly add size and speed to their wings for next season by adding him.
If he is available I would hope Sather is all over that.
A top-4 defenseman for a player with 0 points this season?
Meh.
I get that he's young, but, honestly, he reminds me of your typical "too fast for his hands" type player. I think he'll become a two-way, 40-50 point forward, but that's about it.
A top-4 defenseman for a player with 0 points this season?
Meh.
I get that he's young, but, honestly, he reminds me of your typical "too fast for his hands" type player. I think he'll become a two-way, 40-50 point forward, but that's about it.
His hands are just fine. He is a big, power-forward. They take a little bit longer to develop but we have to remember, he was drafted the same year as Kreider. He is pretty much the Swedish version of Chris Kreider except for that in his draft year he was far more polished than him.
I would move MDZ + Thomas for Kreider. I may be in the minority but those types of players are SO hard to find.
Eventually they will have to move a defenseman as they just don't have enough room. Paajarvi would be a great target if he is available.
Suter is a top-5 defenseman in the NHL RIGHT NOW. He is, IMO, better than Weber at everything except shooting hard. He is a exceptional skater and is a true #1 defenseman at the ripe old age of what, 24-25? He has playoff experience and plays, consistently, 26-28 minutes a night in all situations.
He will get Doughty money.
Suter:
Games Played - 475
Goals - 33 (9 PPG)
Assists - 165 (198pts)
Weber:
Games Played - 414
Goals - 81 (37 PPG)
Assists - 138 (219pts)
So if we stick with your guesstimate of Doughty money for Suter, then it would be safe to say going off numbers that Weber would deserve as much, if not more. So you think Nashville is going to tie up $112 million on two defensemen ??
I guess I'm not arguing Suter's worth, more so the fact that 1 of the 2 should be available..Look's like Weber is also better at hitting the net on top of "shooting hard"
As we reported Tuesday, Suter’s agent, Neil Sheehy, plans on being in Nashville in mid-November and sit down with Poile to resume contract talks. Suter is earning $3.5 million this season. We’d be shocked if he wasn’t looking to be making at least $6.5 million if not $7 million in his new deal.
The owners control the league. Bill Guerin said it two weeks ago. The players can complain about its not fair because they took a cap in the last CBA. The PA should preserve as much as they can. The players will still be more than fairly compensated.
The PA wouldn't take a cap and then in February 2005,they came around to the idea of a cap but it was too late. The PA needs to make a deal. Don't be as foolish as the NBA players.
My favorite quote came from Jay McKee on February 16,2005
Quote:
The softening of the NHLPA's stance on the cap caught some players by surprise.
"If that's where we're going, I wonder why now?" said Buffalo player rep Jay McKee.
I'd rather sign Suter than Parise. Kreider is going to be our Parise.
Suter is the perfect mix of Girardi/Staal and he's an absolute playoff warrior. He makes us a contender, IMO. He has more of an impact on a shift by shift basis than Parise.
Suter Sauer
Staal Girardi
McDonagh Del Zotto/Erixon/McIlrath
That also makes one of DZ/Erixon/McIlrath tradeable for some forward depth or whatever becomes a need in the next year or two. Also, Zuccarello may be moved this year for an asset before his contract is up.
Not sure I'd go over 6 mil on Suter, and no way do I see Nashville paying both Suter and Weber 7mil+ a season... Should be interesting to see how this one works out.. Weber's a RFA and Suter an UFA @ seasons end... Personally, I think Suter get's moved by the deadline.
So if we stick with your guesstimate of Doughty money for Suter, then it would be safe to say going off numbers that Weber would deserve as much, if not more. So you think Nashville is going to tie up $112 million on two defensemen ??
I guess I'm not arguing Suter's worth, more so the fact that 1 of the 2 should be available..Look's like Weber is also better at hitting the net on top of "shooting hard"
Edit: +/-, PIM's are pretty close as well...
Watching them play Weber is flashier, hence the numbers may look better. But Suter is the rock on that pairing. I would say that positionally, he is THE best defenseman in the entire league.
Just a reminder, there was small but uniform consensus from Edmonton in recent threads on the topic of Paajarvi: him + a 2nd for Girardi.
Girardi gets kudos for continuing to step up.
But we'd only be losing ONE backliner. We might get lucky with improved play from the new guys, also, is it possible Vtank tanked at Traverse just because he figured Erixon was already considered the golden boy, next in line to get the call, and he was just too disheartened to get it together?
Could Vtank compete for our 6th or 7th now?
But again, WAY MORE IMPORTANT, if we are looking to get assets to build/trade up, Oilers 2nd in a deep draft, wherever Edmonton finishes, is nothing to snub at...
Just a reminder, there was small but uniform consensus from Edmonton in recent threads on the topic of Paajarvi: him + a 2nd for Girardi.
Girardi gets kudos for continuing to step up.
But we'd only be losing ONE backliner. We might get lucky with improved play from the new guys, also, is it possible Vtank tanked at Traverse just because he figured Erixon was already considered the golden boy, next in line to get the call, and he was just too disheartened to get it together?
Could Vtank compete for our 6th or 7th now?
But again, WAY MORE IMPORTANT, if we are looking to get assets to build/trade up, Oilers 2nd in a deep draft, wherever Edmonton finishes, is nothing to snub at...
Have to respectfully disagree.
A. Girardi can return more than Pajaarvi
B. I don't think that was the case with Valentenko but if it was, I don't want ANY part of a player who was disheartened and didn't take that as motivation to work even harder and play balls to the wall. I don't know what the story with V was but he was far more involved in his first camp than this one.
Just a reminder, there was small but uniform consensus from Edmonton in recent threads on the topic of Paajarvi: him + a 2nd for Girardi.
Girardi gets kudos for continuing to step up.
But we'd only be losing ONE backliner. We might get lucky with improved play from the new guys, also, is it possible Vtank tanked at Traverse just because he figured Erixon was already considered the golden boy, next in line to get the call, and he was just too disheartened to get it together?
Could Vtank compete for our 6th or 7th now?
But again, WAY MORE IMPORTANT, if we are looking to get assets to build/trade up, Oilers 2nd in a deep draft, wherever Edmonton finishes, is nothing to snub at...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome
Have to respectfully disagree.
A. Girardi can return more than Pajaarvi
B. I don't think that was the case with Valentenko but if it was, I don't want ANY part of a player who was disheartened and didn't take that as motivation to work even harder and play balls to the wall. I don't know what the story with V was but he was far more involved in his first camp than this one.
Valentenko didn't play at Traverse City, only in the big camp. Also, it was later revealed that he had an injury that he hid from the coaching staff in an effort to make the team.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he necessarily would have made the team otherwise (after recovering, he's had 5 games now in CT and they haven't called him up to replace Woywitka or Emenger), but that explains why he looked so much better in last year's camp than this.
