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Terry Murray Rant Thread [Merged]

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Old
11-04-2011, 10:39 AM
  #51
deeshamrock
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Flyers fan since 1972 and a HUGE Kings fan since June 23, when Richards came over. Having seen both Murray and Stevens during their reigns as coach in Philly, I preferred Stevens. Murray is a good hockey guy, in that he has great knowledge of the game but his forte is defense. He is not a motivator, which I found very irritating during his Flyers years, esp when they choked in 1997 in the finals.
Stevens is similiar but more flexible in that he was able to see offensive situations and what should be done. His players seem to play hard for him and he was able to take a very young group deep. He did well by the Flyers teams until fall of 2009 when the Flyers went into a slump and he lacked the discipline needed to corral a group of about 8 young players who at times that fall had their priorities wrong.
Flyers brought in Lavvy who is a fired up tempermental guy but the team didn't fare well under him either, struggled all year and barely made the playoffs.

TM isn't the right coach for this team in that he cannot see that you need to create a system around the talents of the players you have. His system is lost in the 90's. The rest of the league is changing and growing, as is the talent. With the right coach and system, this team would score and thrive. TM does not ,motivate, never has and never will.

I'm not sure who is available, but off the top of my head, another former Flyers coach who I always liked and is out there is Ken Hitchcock. Good motivator, Very good x' and o's guy, and was able to get the most out of his players, even to recognizing who played well and who didn't . You didn't hustle and play hard for him you sat, didn't matter who you were.

I hope DL can see that a change is needed, because the sooner you do that, esp if a new coach brings in a new system, the better the team will be as an adjustment period will take place

How can DL be satisfied with the total lack of offense? Kopi and Richards are two outstanding two way centers and given the right wingers and system, would lead this team. Brown and Richards are not compatble as linemates, you can force that, it has to come on it's own. Because of that the second line is struggling.

I hope that DL doesn't wait on this...he has to see that his coach has lost this team , he can't motivate the group he has and blend in young, fresh legs from Manchster. His decisions are questionable.

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Old
11-04-2011, 11:43 AM
  #52
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All this started when he decided to break the great momentum the team had during quick's shut out streak. What an idiot....I was against him doing that move and it has come back to bite him in the arse.

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11-04-2011, 11:47 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agentfouser View Post
Awesome name.

And regarding Murray fixing the players playing to the best of their ability, others have said it: Murray's a system-first coach. He's good at getting a lot out of a team that lacks skills, but in doing that he sacrifices creativity. Thus, when you have a team with much more talent, as the Kings have become, they underperform. I don't think Murray is capable of getting the most out of a very skilled team.

The past few years, the Kings have won more than they have lost, but it has always been by the barest of margins. Even when they were playing well and winning pretty consistently, their margins of victory were always one goal or one plus an empty-netter. Murray's emphasis on system requires his team to be virtually flawless in their zone, and for the other team to make mistakes.

Now, when the roster is pretty clearly better, more talented, we're seeing essentially the same thing. Murray has not really adjusted to the improvements in the roster: the Kings still need to be essentially perfect in their own zone, and the other team must make mistakes. The Kings just do not CREATE offense. This is why they have lost the past few games: they haven't been perfect, and the other teams have made fewer mistakes.

It's of course possible to argue that this makes perfect sense, the team that makes fewer mistakes SHOULD win. But at what point does the increasing talent of this team start to change or overcome this? I don't think it happens under Murray.
i agree with ur post. there seems to be no adaptation to the skill on the team. You can't just keep riding the same workhorse while changing the cast.

i don't like firing coaches on a whim. But this is not a blip but a pattern. I am starting to think TM will never get his offense going, it's been years and nothing. He now has a legit offensive force on his team and still nothing. It's really like you said, the team ends up playing not to lose.

If I were DL, I'd shorten the leash. Give him a deadline, either he fixes the system or he gets a new offensive coach. Either way, if he fails to rev the system, then axe him.

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Old
11-04-2011, 11:55 AM
  #54
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You guys can scream about replacing TM but this is the team that DL assembled and they are just not that good.

5 years into DL's regime and what has he done? Kopitar, Quick, and Brown were all from the DT days.

He added Doughty but that was a no-brainer (although the $7mm contract may turn out to be a real disaster).

Johnson may turn into the all-star defenseman that everyone believes but so far Gleason is the better of the two.

Williams, Gagne, Stoll? who cares?

The two blockbuster acquisitions - Penner and Richards? Two goals this year COMBINED.

The bottom six...arguably the worst in the league.

Worst of all, there is no depth in the system. No one at Manchester is ready except for Voynov and maybe Loktionov. And Loktionov doesn't have a position thanks to the Richards trade.

Call me negative but don't cover your eyes to the facts. DL has not delivered. Period.

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Old
11-04-2011, 11:59 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by tomd View Post
You guys can scream about replacing TM but this is the team that DL assembled and they are just not that good.

5 years into DL's regime and what has he done? Kopitar, Quick, and Brown were all from the DT days.

He added Doughty but that was a no-brainer (although the $7mm contract may turn out to be a real disaster).

Johnson may turn into the all-star defenseman that everyone believes but so far Gleason is the better of the two.

Williams, Gagne, Stoll? who cares?

The two blockbuster acquisitions - Penner and Richards? Two goals this year COMBINED.

The bottom six...arguably the worst in the league.

Worst of all, there is no depth in the system. No one at Manchester is ready except for Voynov and maybe Loktionov. And Loktionov doesn't have a position thanks to the Richards trade.

Call me negative but don't cover your eyes to the facts. DL has not delivered. Period.
You are simply on crack if you think Gleason is the better of the two between him and Johnson, that's just wow...really?

As far as Doughty being a no-brainer, that's been debunked so many times by so many people, and you still bring that up??

5 years into DL's regime and he has completely changed the culture, revamped and retooled the scouting department, to where they can make picks like Voynov in the 2nd round, Clifford, etc,

No depth in the system? Wow, please share some of whatever it is you are on, and let everyone know when the sky stops falling k?

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Old
11-04-2011, 12:06 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by tomd View Post
You guys can scream about replacing TM but this is the team that DL assembled and they are just not that good.

5 years into DL's regime and what has he done? Kopitar, Quick, and Brown were all from the DT days.

He added Doughty but that was a no-brainer (although the $7mm contract may turn out to be a real disaster).

Johnson may turn into the all-star defenseman that everyone believes but so far Gleason is the better of the two.

Williams, Gagne, Stoll? who cares?

The two blockbuster acquisitions - Penner and Richards? Two goals this year COMBINED.

The bottom six...arguably the worst in the league.

Worst of all, there is no depth in the system. No one at Manchester is ready except for Voynov and maybe Loktionov. And Loktionov doesn't have a position thanks to the Richards trade.

Call me negative but don't cover your eyes to the facts. DL has not delivered. Period.
wow, really? bottom 6 are arguably the worst in the league? I can't think of a single analyst, player, or coach that would agree with you.

And Gleason is better than Jack Johnson? Dude, you are officially smoking grass.

People, we are 12 games into the season. The sky is not falling. Reading these boards is nauseating.

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11-04-2011, 12:06 PM
  #57
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Lets not go all crazy and talk about bringing back past failures here. This is TM and this is the way his teams play. We have more than enough talent to be one of the top 5 teams in the league and yet we struggle and play up and down hockey.

At times we look like world beaters and at times we look lost and barely capable of winning an NHL game.

TM simply cannot or will not adapt his game plan on the fly. I don't know if it is a case of him not being capable of doing so or simply being unwilling to but the fact remains that TM isn't going to be able to out coach an opponent during a game. He is successful due to the amount of talent on his team and when that team plays simple basic shut down hockey.

We will be successful this year, I think more so than last but I can't see TM leading us to the cup. I am banking on the character of the team being able to win it for us and that is true of every team to some point.

The major difference with us is that I believe that TM is doing the same thing, betting on his players to do it all for him. He hasn't proven himself of being capable of anything more since he got here imo.

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Old
11-04-2011, 12:10 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Lets not go all crazy and talk about bringing back past failures here. This is TM and this is the way his teams play. We have more than enough talent to be one of the top 5 teams in the league and yet we struggle and play up and down hockey.

At times we look like world beaters and at times we look lost and barely capable of winning an NHL game.

TM simply cannot or will not adapt his game plan on the fly. I don't know if it is a case of him not being capable of doing so or simply being unwilling to but the fact remains that TM isn't going to be able to out coach an opponent during a game. He is successful due to the amount of talent on his team and when that team plays simple basic shut down hockey.

We will be successful this year, I think more so than last but I can't see TM leading us to the cup. I am banking on the character of the team being able to win it for us and that is true of every team to some point.

The major difference with us is that I believe that TM is doing the same thing, betting on his players to do it all for him. He hasn't proven himself of being capable of anything more since he got here imo.
Good point, but I believe that when the Kings actually execute the system that he has laid out, they are a top 5 team in the league, when they get away from that, they are, well.....what happened last night.

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Old
11-04-2011, 12:12 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
You are simply on crack if you think Gleason is the better of the two between him and Johnson, that's just wow...really?

As far as Doughty being a no-brainer, that's been debunked so many times by so many people, and you still bring that up??

5 years into DL's regime and he has completely changed the culture, revamped and retooled the scouting department, to where they can make picks like Voynov in the 2nd round, Clifford, etc,

No depth in the system? Wow, please share some of whatever it is you are on, and let everyone know when the sky stops falling k?
The comparison between Gleason and Johnson is not as one sided as you think. Gleason is definitely the better DEFENSEMAN right now and has been. I'll take his career -6 over Johnson's career -77 ANY DAY.

Not sure what you are even referring to on Doughty.

Lot's of 2nd rounders from the 2008 draft are in the NHL as we speak. Voynov is good but is still not in the NHL as a regular yet. Clifford has been terrible this year. I hope he turns it around.

And what culture has changed? Losing two home games in a row 3-0 in totally uninspired efforts is a culture change? Please, give me the old culture then!!

Finally, the Kings desperately need scoring. Who can provide that in Manchester? MAYBE Loktionov. Other than that, NO ONE. That is the depth you are so proud of?

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Old
11-04-2011, 12:15 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Lets not go all crazy and talk about bringing back past failures here. This is TM and this is the way his teams play. We have more than enough talent to be one of the top 5 teams in the league and yet we struggle and play up and down hockey.

At times we look like world beaters and at times we look lost and barely capable of winning an NHL game.

TM simply cannot or will not adapt his game plan on the fly. I don't know if it is a case of him not being capable of doing so or simply being unwilling to but the fact remains that TM isn't going to be able to out coach an opponent during a game. He is successful due to the amount of talent on his team and when that team plays simple basic shut down hockey.

We will be successful this year, I think more so than last but I can't see TM leading us to the cup. I am banking on the character of the team being able to win it for us and that is true of every team to some point.

The major difference with us is that I believe that TM is doing the same thing, betting on his players to do it all for him. He hasn't proven himself of being capable of anything more since he got here imo.
This I will buy. TM not being a great motivator I can buy.

It was pretty obvious last night that the Oilers figured out the game plan very early in the game. Hey, the Kings are going to try and carry the puck in over the line tonight. Let's send in one forechecker to funnel the play to the side we want and stand up four across the blueline.

Dump and chase was the answer last night. The Kings should have been pounding that defense on the forecheck early and often. It was a fine idea to activate the defensemen a bit more once the puck was in the zone. The whole problem last night was getting the puck into the zone.

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Old
11-04-2011, 12:17 PM
  #61
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The comparison between Gleason and Johnson is not as one sided as you think. Gleason is definitely the better DEFENSEMAN right now and has been. I'll take his career -6 over Johnson's career -77 ANY DAY.

Not sure what you are even referring to on Doughty.

Lot's of 2nd rounders from the 2008 draft are in the NHL as we speak. Voynov is good but is still not in the NHL as a regular yet. Clifford has been terrible this year. I hope he turns it around.

And what culture has changed? Losing two home games in a row 3-0 in totally uninspired efforts is a culture change? Please, give me the old culture then!!

Finally, the Kings desperately need scoring. Who can provide that in Manchester? MAYBE Loktionov. Other than that, NO ONE. That is the depth you are so proud of?
Gleason is what he is and Johnson is getting better every year. I think the Kings won that deal. If you haven't noticed the improvement in his defense this season you need to watch more carefully.

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11-04-2011, 12:19 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Gleason is what he is and Johnson is getting better every year. I think the Kings won that deal. If you haven't noticed the improvement in his defense this season you need to watch more carefully.
I said that Gleason has been the better defenseman so far...the trade was 4 years ago.

Maybe Johnson will "get it" this year...we'll see. 1 even strength point so far from an offensive defensman leaves me wondering though what he is really good at.

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Old
11-04-2011, 12:21 PM
  #63
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wow, really? bottom 6 are arguably the worst in the league? I can't think of a single analyst, player, or coach that would agree with you.
As someone else noted, 2 goals so far this year from the ENTIRE bottom six. Worse, they are not particularly tough or physical to play against and aren't noted for their defensive prowess.

What about the bottom six do you like?????

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11-04-2011, 12:37 PM
  #64
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As someone else noted, 2 goals so far this year from the ENTIRE bottom six. Worse, they are not particularly tough or physical to play against and aren't noted for their defensive prowess.

What about the bottom six do you like?????
I'm not saying that they are performing on the highest level but the worst in the league?

I just think you are being overly dramatic. But that seems to be the theme around here.

It's 12 GAMES INTO THE SEASON.The first sign of any adversity you are all ready to jump ship.


Last edited by TonySCV: 11-04-2011 at 01:45 PM. Reason: disparaging remarks removed
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Old
11-04-2011, 12:43 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by lakingsdrummer View Post
I'm not saying that they are performing on the highest level but the worst in the league?

I just think you are being overly dramatic. But that seems to be the theme around here.

It's 12 GAMES INTO THE SEASON.
You are missing the point. These are legitimate organizational weaknesses that aren't going to go away.

Leaving the boards for awhile so that you don't hear negative viewpoints is not the answer.

You can root for a team and still be critical of it. All I am saying is that it is too easy to blame the coach.

In this case, I think the GM is far more to blame.


Last edited by TonySCV: 11-04-2011 at 01:45 PM. Reason: quoted post edited
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11-04-2011, 12:46 PM
  #66
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Have been a fan since the beginning and a lurker at HF since about 2001 as best as i can remember. I am delurking to agree that it is time for Murray to go. The team has been approximately in the bottom sixth of the league in even strength goals since his inception. Cup winning teams have been in the upper tier. The trend for LA continues even as the talent increases year to year including this year so far. Probability theory suggests that the trend will likely continue unless there is change. Things out of the ordinary do happen but it is unwise to bank on it.

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11-04-2011, 01:03 PM
  #67
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You are missing the point. These are legitimate organizational weaknesses that aren't going to go away.

Leaving the boards for awhile so that you don't hear negative viewpoints is not the answer.

You can root for a team and still be critical of it. All I am saying is that it is too easy to blame the coach.

In this case, I think the GM is far more to blame.
It's just that the criticism here is so over the top. It's such a knee jerk reaction to feel like you want to fire the coach or gut the bottom half of the team when we are above 500 and still finding our groove.

The other teams are trying to win games and guess what? They know how to play hockey too. ALL teams go through bad stretches of games. Look at Boston last year.

I'm certainly not saying this team doesn't have some problems to address. But c'mon people, lighten up a little. There is still plenty of time to figure things out.

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Old
11-04-2011, 01:43 PM
  #68
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Everyone needs to cool the rhetoric. You can make your point without resorting to disparaging other posters.

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11-04-2011, 01:46 PM
  #69
The Black1963
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Everyone needs to cool the rhetoric. You can make your point without resorting to disparaging other posters.
True, but not nearly as enjoyable.

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Old
11-04-2011, 01:51 PM
  #70
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well first off...........
most people here are die hard KIngs fans for many many years.
Tell them to switch the team does nothing than bad blood.

2nd thing is they have seen talented players on the Kings roster thrown under the bus by pure incompetence.
I'm one of them.
Everyone was screaming for more talent for Murray to play with.
Now we have one of the most talented Top 6.
The only thin Murrays is doing from the beginning to block and creative developement of the young guys he had from the beginning.

3rd Murrays system is based on pure luck and gambling on chances.
Balling up in front of the oppoenent net and balling up in front of own net
hoping we are on the better side of the gamble.
The rest is grinding at the boards and again gambling on having better board player.
THIS IS NOT A HOCKEY SYSTEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We could have a team full of Ovechkins and would have same outcomes.
We could have a team full of Westgarth and would have same outcomes....
This is simply and plain Murray hockey.

4th and very important thing is we dont have identity.......
are we a top 6-bottom 6 team ??? Are we Top 9-bottom3 ????
Nobody knows..... if our 3rd line is bottom 6 take Richardson and Parse off.
If we are a Top team trade Stoll+ for a scoring winger and let Loktionov and Richardson battle for the creative center position.

I can't belive that nobody can see that since 300 years of Murray.
It leads nowhere.... not to the cup and of course not so satisfied fans.


We don't need a hard working mentality.......
WE NEED A WINNING MENTALITY

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11-04-2011, 01:54 PM
  #71
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True, but not nearly as enjoyable.
Fire everyone, everyone is an idiot and no one knows what they're doing.

/losingstreak

The Kings will win 4 in a row and everyone's happy again.

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11-04-2011, 02:04 PM
  #72
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Fire everyone, everyone is an idiot and no one knows what they're doing.

/losingstreak

The Kings will win 4 in a row and everyone's happy again.
Really? I'm thinking another shutout would be interesting.

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11-04-2011, 02:21 PM
  #73
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Hey guys, ive always read these forums, and never really posted, as this is my first ever post on HF. Like everyone ive been a fan since the purple (royal blue) and gold days, a couple seasons, before the great one was traded here.

With that said, I like many of you am EXTREMELY critical about everything Kings. I dont know if im the only one, but, last years team, i was MORE sold on, than this years team. Yes on "paper" its deadly. But, since the start of the season, something has not rub me the right way about this particular team.

Watching them last night, high above the ice, you can pick apart the game, having played it most of life, there are things they are SOOO limited to just doing, and I know all of you have mentioned it previous posts. As one poster said earlier, dont recall who, they are being limited with all of their capabilities. Sorry for the rant, or for sounding like im kicking a dead horse, but this team isnt JUST having offensive troubles, there something much deeper, and it comes from behind the bench!!!


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11-04-2011, 02:24 PM
  #74
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The Kings will win 4 in a row and everyone's happy again.
I think there was always concern that TM won't be the guy that will get us to the cup. This complaint about TM didn't happen overnight and it's not about the recent couple of games.

The thing is the talent we have should be better than we are doing. For whatever reason; the results (more than the scoreboard results) expected aren't there. Players are accountable too, but based on the roster it's natural that fingers now get pointed to the coaching right now.

I actually hope TM proves me wrong, but I doubt it.

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Old
11-04-2011, 02:24 PM
  #75
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Fire everyone, everyone is an idiot and no one knows what they're doing.

/losingstreak

The Kings will win 4 in a row and everyone's happy again.
The problem isn't them all of a sudden winning 4 in a row; the problem is what happens when they go on another extending losing streak after that winning streak. It doesn't seem like the core players learned their lesson from last season's roller coaster ride as far as streaks go (especially making sure prolonged losing streaks don't happen). I have seen nothing different about this season's version of the Kings that makes me think they'll be able to avoid the same type of slides they had last season.

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