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11-04-2011, 02:28 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by misch13vousmike View Post
Hey guys, ive always read these forums, and never really posted, as this is my first ever post on HF. Like everyone ive been a fan since the purple (royal blue) and gold days, a couple seasons, before the great one was traded here.

With that said, I like many of you am EXTREMELY critical about everything Kings. I dont know if im the only one, but, last years team, i was MORE sold on, than this years team. Yes on "paper" its deadly. But, the since the start of the season, something has not rub me the right way about this particular team.

Watching them last night, high above the ice, you can pick apart the game, having played it most of life, there are things they are SOOO limited to just doing, and I know all of you have mentioned it previous posts. As one poster said earlier, dont recall who, they are being limited with all of their capabilities. Sorry for the rant, or for sounding like im kicking a dead horse, but this team isnt JUST having offensive troubles, there something much deeper, and it comes from behind the bench!!!
As I've mentioned a few times, I think some of the players have given up on TM. Having said that, I would give TM little more time. We're still early in the season, so, there's no need to push the panic button just yet.

Good first post!

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11-04-2011, 02:33 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by TonySCV View Post
Fire everyone, everyone is an idiot and no one knows what they're doing.

/losingstreak

The Kings will win 4 in a row and everyone's happy again.
When those four wins consist of 1-0, and 2-1 victories where 50% of the goals come from the PP, sure the tensions will ease, but the problems will remain

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11-04-2011, 02:35 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
As I've mentioned a few times, I think some of the players have given up on TM. Having said that, I would give TM little more time. We're still early in the season, so, there's no need to push the panic button just yet.

Good first post!

thank you kind sir. Being a fanatic for so long, panic button doesnt exist anymore, i think its safe say the numb button should suffice, and is short circuited. I know TM will not get booted this year, unless their is a monumental collapse, but maybe he should consider a 180 of sorts like Budreau did with the Caps, last year. Yes they lost in the 1st round. But the identity of that team now is "offensive capable juggernaut, playing a defensive system." Cuz you know the second Bruce lets them off the leash they will tear to shreds.

The kings dont have that gritty "other teams hate to play" look this season. I dont for one second buy any of the hit statistics, as last night i saw brown throw his first big hit of the season behind the net, stat sheet said they had 33 hits to edmontons 20. I must have been watching the wrong game last night, cuz i didnt see 33 hits combined between either team.

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11-04-2011, 03:30 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Kingurentai View Post
I think there was always concern that TM won't be the guy that will get us to the cup. This complaint about TM didn't happen overnight and it's not about the recent couple of games.

The thing is the talent we have should be better than we are doing. For whatever reason; the results (more than the scoreboard results) expected aren't there. Players are accountable too, but based on the roster it's natural that fingers now get pointed to the coaching right now.

I actually hope TM proves me wrong, but I doubt it.
This is a real possibility, but I'm not going to bash the guy for it. He was brought in here to stop screaming at the young guys (Crawford's forte) and teach them instead. He has done an admirable job in that department.

Is he the greatest motivator? Probably not. Is he too conservative? Maybe, but he has tried to open up the offense a little more.

I am not going to give the players a pass for their recent poor play and execution. It wasn't Murray skating out there that made 20-foot passes into their teammate's skates or turned the puck over at the blueline instead of getting it deep enough to establish a forecheck.

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11-04-2011, 03:39 PM
  #80
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It's only game 12. The Kings are 6-4-2, almost the exact same pace of the past 2 seasons. This is what you get with Murray.

If you were happy with Murray when the Kings were 5-1-1, why would you be upset with Murray when they are 1-3-1? If you didn't see any problems with the coach after 7 games and the team is playing the same way, shouldn't you blame players for going 1-3-1? Murray say it is just bad luck and things will turn around.

If the Kings go 3-1-1 in the next 5 games, winning 3-2, 2-1 or 1-0, will you still call for Murray's head?

At least give it 8 more games.

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11-04-2011, 03:41 PM
  #81
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To me, the most disturbing thing about last night's game was when the reporter asked TM about team being "uninspired", to which he said no twice, the second time emphatically (most emotion I've seen from him).

I think if he had admitted to the uninspired play and state that he would take care of it, I would be less concerned, but that wasn't the case. Either he's in serious denial or he just doesn't get it.

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11-04-2011, 03:42 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
To me, the most disturbing thing about last night's game was when the reporter asked TM about team being "uninspired", to which he said no twice, the second time emphatically (most emotion I've seen from him).

I think if he had admitted to the uninspired play and state that he would take care of it, I would be less concerned, but that wasn't the case. Either he's in serious denial or he just doesn't get it.
Or he isn't going to throw his players under the bus the way he did in Philly a few years back...

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11-04-2011, 03:46 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
Or he isn't going to throw his players under the bus the way he did in Philly a few years back...
If the team is playing uninspired, the onus is on the coach not the entire team.

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11-04-2011, 03:47 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
If the team is playing uninspired, the onus is on the coach not the entire team.
********, if a professional player is playing uninspiried, the onus is on the damn player.

If a player needs to be yelled at to play a game he professes to love, maybe he should be looking for a new career path.

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11-04-2011, 03:53 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
********, if a professional player is playing uninspiried, the onus is on the damn player.

If a player needs to be yelled at to play a game he professes to love, maybe he should be looking for a new career path.
We're not talking about a player, we're talking about the entire team. There's no finger pointing here.

All TM had to say was that he thought there was some uninspired play and that he would address it, but he didn't.

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11-04-2011, 03:54 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
********, if a professional player is playing uninspiried, the onus is on the damn player.

If a player needs to be yelled at to play a game he professes to love, maybe he should be looking for a new career path.
At certain points we all need to be yelled at, kicked in the ***, and motivated. Everyone gets down and frustrated at times, the fact that they are professionals makes them no less human. Is would be great if every person/player could look within themselves and find the inspiration, but to expect that is a little unreasonable. There is noting wrong with needing a little motivation every now and again. This is where your team leadership and coaching staff should come in, which is obviously lacking

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11-04-2011, 03:55 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
We're not talking about a player, we're talking about the entire team. There's no finger pointing here.

All TM had to say was that he thought there was some uninspired play and that he would address it, but he didn't.
And here I was thinking we were all talkin' 'bout PRACTICE.

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Old
11-04-2011, 04:01 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Chazz Reinhold View Post
The problem isn't them all of a sudden winning 4 in a row; the problem is what happens when they go on another extending losing streak after that winning streak. It doesn't seem like the core players learned their lesson from last season's roller coaster ride as far as streaks go (especially making sure prolonged losing streaks don't happen). I have seen nothing different about this season's version of the Kings that makes me think they'll be able to avoid the same type of slides they had last season.
I agree. I was being a little facetious. The behavior pattern certainly exists. 5-1-1 followed by 1-3-1. The thing is, every team has this happen to them in the course of a season. That doesn't bother me. What bothered me last season was the defense, which was a hallmark of the team all season long completely fell apart in the playoffs. Obviously we won't be able to see if that has improved until the playoffs roll around.

I just don't get too worked up over what's happening in the regular season now that the team is as good as it is. When there was/is a significant fear of missing the playoffs, then I'll start caring a little more, but it's way too premature to be worrying about that right now.

The real test will come in April. Until then.. meh.

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11-04-2011, 04:15 PM
  #89
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He added Doughty but that was a no-brainer (although the $7mm contract may turn out to be a real disaster).
Which was something you advocated right?

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The two blockbuster acquisitions - Penner and Richards? Two goals this year COMBINED.
Remember when you said "Mike Richards is the type of player that wins you Stanley Cups" and then you went on to bash him two weeks later after he was traded?

Why would anyone listen to what you have to say? You are a Monday morning quarterback at its finest. Congrats at that!

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11-04-2011, 04:21 PM
  #90
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Which was something you advocated right?



Remember when you said "Mike Richards is the type of player that wins you Stanley Cups" and then you went on to bash him two weeks later after he was traded?

Why would anyone listen to what you have to say? You are a Monday morning quarterback at its finest. Congrats at that!
Regarding Doughty, I don't believe I "advocated" giving him $7mm but I am sure I indicated that DL would have no choice. The leverage was all with Doughty. Now it is up to Doughty to prove he's worth it.

Mike Richards IS the type of player who can win you a Stanley Cup IF there is the supporting cast of players around him. As I have been (so far correctly) pointing out, the supporting cast does not exist with this current roster. I NEVER at ANY time advocated for acquiring Mike Richards exactly because this roster is nowhere need ready to compete for a SC. I was merely pointing out that Schenn could (and most likely will) be the next Mike Richards and that the Kings would be fools to trade him. Well, fools they were.


Last edited by tomd: 11-04-2011 at 04:28 PM.
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11-04-2011, 04:26 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by tomd View Post
Regarding Doughty, I don't believe I "advocated" giving him $7mm but I am sure I indicated that DL would have no choice. The leverage was all with Doughty. Now it is up to Doughty to prove he's worth it.

Mike Richards IS the type of player who can win you a Stanley Cup IF there is the supporting cast of players around him. As I have been (so far correctly) pointing out, the supporting cast does not exist with this current roster.

Well, if Richards IS the type of player that will win us the cup, then why are you knocking him by saying he and Penner combined for only 2 goals? It sounds more like you're complaining about Richards.

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11-04-2011, 04:32 PM
  #92
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Well, if Richards IS the type of player that will win us the cup, then why are you knocking him by saying he and Penner combined for only 2 goals? It sounds more like you're complaining about Richards.
Simply pointing out the facts. As I stated a couple of weeks ago, Richards talent on this team will be limited to the special teams because he will have horrible linemates all year. Again, so far I am correct.

Bottom line, DL jumped at the chance to get a player who's talent will be wasted on this team. Worse, he gave up two young players - one of whom (Simmonds) - he never replaced on the 3rd line. Any finally, Richards as the #2 center all but eliminates the ability for Loktionov to be on this team. Loktionov's ONLY position is a #2 center. Total misuse of assets by DL (IMO, of course).

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11-04-2011, 04:35 PM
  #93
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Simply pointing out the facts. As I stated a couple of weeks ago, Richards talent on this team will be limited to the special teams because he will have horrible linemates all year. Again, so far I am correct.

Bottom line, DL jumped at the chance to get a player who's talent will be wasted on this team. Worse, he gave up two young players - one of whom (Simmonds) - he never replaced on the 3rd line. Any finally, Richards as the #2 center all but eliminates the ability for Loktionov to be on this team. Loktionov's ONLY position is a #2 center. Total misuse of assets by DL (IMO, of course).
not disagreeing with you on any points as far misuse for assets, but IF the richards trade didnt go down, and you say Loktionov is ONLY a 2nd line center, where would that leave Schenn???!!


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11-04-2011, 04:36 PM
  #94
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I live in Italy, and here in Europe the media are much more aggressive when things don't go in the right way.
However, I cannot believe that no reporter in LA interviewed Lombardi asking him about Murray. I know that Dean would likely play his usual act defending him, but it's unreal that Murray isn't taking any heat from the media. Dude is coaching a pretty good hockey team on paper, yet we look disorganized and out of sync, and it's not his first year as a head coach.

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11-04-2011, 04:43 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by misch13vousmike View Post
not disagreeing with you on any points as far misuse for assets, but IF the richards trade didnt go down, and you say Loktionov is ONLY a 2nd line center, where would that leave Schenn?
Good question...Schenn is ideally a #2 center as well but would be a fantastic #3 center. That is the difference between Schenn and Loktionov...Schenn could play well in either role because of his size and physical play. Loktionov will only thrive as a #2.

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11-04-2011, 04:49 PM
  #96
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I live in Italy, and here in Europe the media are much more aggressive when things don't go in the right way.
However, I cannot believe that no reporter in LA interviewed Lombardi asking him about Murray. I know that Dean would likely play his usual act defending him, but it's unreal that Murray isn't taking any heat from the media. Dude is coaching a pretty good hockey team on paper, yet we look disorganized and out of sync, and it's not his first year as a head coach.
This is LA. Where the local media still talks about the NBA all day even when there's a lockout.

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11-04-2011, 04:53 PM
  #97
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Good question...Schenn is ideally a #2 center as well but would be a fantastic #3 center. That is the difference between Schenn and Loktionov...Schenn could play well in either role because of his size and physical play. Loktionov will only thrive as a #2.
Either way you swing it, the strength and depth down the middle almost go without saying. The problem here isnt the players arent performing, the problem here is the system given to the players sets limitations on their performance potential. Loktionov wouldnt thrive in a TM system, nor would schenn, and with that said, Neither would Richards. ESPECIALLY penner. Who is used to being just let go to do as he pleased in Edmonton. Kopitar wouldnt challenge at a point a game, he would be a 90-100 pt man if healthy every year.

You take a wild animal and you try and teach is manners, and etiquette, you will fail miserably. Kinda applies to some of the guys here in TM's cro-magnon era system.

To add to this, im an honest and most of the time non biased guy. This team is not even close to being one of the more 'fun' teams to watch. I can name another 10 teams easily that are more fun to watch night in and night out. Just being honest.

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11-04-2011, 05:01 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by misch13vousmike View Post
Either way you swing it, the strength and depth down the middle almost go without saying. The problem here isnt the players arent performing, the problem here is the system given to the players sets limitations on their performance potential. Loktionov wouldnt thrive in a TM system, nor would schenn, and with that said, Neither would Richards. ESPECIALLY penner. Who is used to being just let go to do as he pleased in Edmonton. Kopitar wouldnt challenge at a point a game, he would be a 90-100 pt man if healthy every year.

You take a wild animal and you try and teach is manners, and etiquette, you will fail miserably. Kinda applies to some of the guys here in TM's cro-magnon era system.

To add to this, im an honest and most of the time non biased guy. This team is not even close to being one of the more 'fun' teams to watch. I can name another 10 teams easily that are more fun to watch night in and night out. Just being honest.
no argument with any of your points.

I'm not a fan of the TM style of play. But I do believe that DL and TM are on the same page here. Look at the team DL has put together and compare it to how Edmonton played last night. Night and day. Kings are not built to be an up-tempo team and the TM gameplan makes sure that they aren't.

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11-04-2011, 05:07 PM
  #99
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no argument with any of your points.

I'm not a fan of the TM style of play. But I do believe that DL and TM are on the same page here. Look at the team DL has put together and compare it to how Edmonton played last night. Night and day. Kings are not built to be an up-tempo team and the TM gameplan makes sure that they aren't.
One team is built from the net out and the other has a defense that is going to break down sometime in January or sooner. You don't think the league is going to figure Edmonton's defense out and start exploiting players like Teubert, Gilbert, etc.?

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11-04-2011, 05:11 PM
  #100
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Simply pointing out the facts. As I stated a couple of weeks ago, Richards talent on this team will be limited to the special teams because he will have horrible linemates all year. Again, so far I am correct.
Don't hurt yourself patting yourself on the back.


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no argument with any of your points.

I'm not a fan of the TM style of play. But I do believe that DL and TM are on the same page here. Look at the team DL has put together and compare it to how Edmonton played last night. Night and day. Kings are not built to be an up-tempo team and the TM gameplan makes sure that they aren't.
What players are you referring to when you say that? On top of that you are saying you agree with the guys post but then you say the Kings lack the talent to play a up tempo game when I think he was saying they DO have the talent to play that. I could be wrong but that is what I read.

From what I can tell, the at least 6 or 7 of the Kings forwards are decent skaters. I'm thinking of Kopitar, Richards, Brown, Williams, Richardson, Lewis and Stoll off the top of my head.

I think part of the problem is I look at a guy like Gagne who looked like a total creampuff trying to win a puck battle in the corner last night and I think the problem is the Kings DO have skilled players now and Terry Murray is trying to get them to grind it out in the corners. I completely disagree that they can't play and up tempo or puck possesion game. They definitely have the personnel to do it.

Simmonds was a Terry Murray grind it out player as was Handzus and Smyth. Those players were replaced by Richards, Gagne and Hunter/Moreau. Of those 4, Moreau is really the only player that I'd consider that style of play. Maybe the Kings personnel of the past few years was adequate for Murray's system but I think it is becoming more evident that isn't the case anymore.

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