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Zibanejad back to Sweden

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Old
11-04-2011, 05:45 PM
  #301
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Originally Posted by DylanSensFan View Post
The problem I have is that he doesn't have a team to support his excellent play. He makes a beautiful, probably NHL level pass and his linemate cannot convert it.
That's probably a good reason why we haven't drafted his linemates. What matters is that he's getting better at making plays and creating offense.

I really side with those that have said he needs to be a scoring player at a lesser level first, because he hasn't really been yet. I doubt he has to light the league on fire, but scoring something similar to Silfverberg's 18 + 18 last year would be very encouraging. Wouldn't get too discouraged about his productivity early on...I expect his 2nd half could be quite a bit better than his 1st.

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11-04-2011, 05:47 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by DylanSensFan View Post
Yeah, there were a lot of 30 year old minor pros in bingo last year, that didn't see a lot if any time in Ottawa, even when our team was craphouse last season. So I don't necessarily believe that an 18 year old NHL first round prospect isn't better than a 30 year old SEL pro.
Come on man, stop being ridiculous. The 5+ guys drafted in the first round every year from the SEL are most often just on the brink of making their Swedish team. That's how it was for Rundblad for instance.

Although, in Sweden your allowed 20 skaters dressed for every game. So there's almost always 2 guys sitting out, but that counts as having played a game. Rundblad is a good example, I think he was dressed for something like 40 games his first season, and that's how many games it says he played, but he maybe had ice time in at most 20. And he got drafted in the first round. And the same goes for Zibanejad, also having a hard time getting a regular spot on the top-18.

Then, however, Sweden is pretty good at developing talent. Players who's contemporary quality should put them at 4th line or maybe even out of the team often get to play 1st or 2nd line minutes if they are 18-19.

Zibanejad, for now, is nothing in the SEL. If he was exactly the player he is, but 27 years instead of 18, he would play on the 4th line or maybe not even making the team. Now he gets to play in the 1st line. That's always how it is, and that's exactly how it is in the NHL also. Every hockey coach want to develop talent, and I think the SEL is the most extreme example in the world of actually GIVING youngsters ice time that they don't deserve so they can develop. Even the national team does the same, they go to most World Championship with at least 5-10 young players that are worse players than 5-10 senior players that got left at home.

And yeah, if some of the SEL's better players got the chance and playing time Mika got in Ottawa this year, they would make more of it. But that's not how the world of hockey, or sports in general, work. You give kids playing time that they haven't earned, but you don't give players at the height of quality of their career (27 years+) time on ice if they haven't earned it.

And the AHL is a much worse league than the SEL. If I'd take an example from Binghampton, I'd take Mattias Karlsson or Erik Karlsson. Mattias Karlsson put up 51 points in 73 games in Binghampton, but haven't before or since put up more than even 15 points in the SEL on the 55 games. Erik Karlsson scored more in 12 games in Binghampton than he scored in 40 games in the SEL 5-9 months earlier.

I know those kinds of comparisons never are absolute, but, man... Zibanejad is not a star in the SEL, not by a long shot. Yet he get the opportunities on the PP and on the first line that he doesn't deserve, because the coaches believe it'll pay off, like it did for Brynäs with Silfverberg and Järnkrok. When they started playing PP and first line minutes they were nothing, they even had a hard time keeping their spot on the roster. But if they get to come up from the juniors, they get the best opportunities possible. And now, a few years later, they are both somewhat semi-stars on their team and in the league.

But you go on believing Zibanejad is among the best players on his team right now just because he gets among the most opportunities to play.

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Old
11-04-2011, 05:50 PM
  #303
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Nope.

We sent him back so that he could play on a scoring line and be relied upon to create offence. He wasn't about to sharpen his offensive tools on our third line playing with grinders.
Yeah.

We didn't send him back to dominate and we didn't send him back to be in a winning lineup. I think they were conscious to the fact that it didn't look like we'd win that much here..We put him back there to see if he can become an offensive difference maker. We put him back there to be put in the situations where he will learn to be that, refine his skills in a league wtih less pressure every night.

We sent him back just like pretty much every other 18 year old Euro that tries to make it.

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11-04-2011, 05:55 PM
  #304
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And by the way, the guy missing his pass was Åberg, the kid. Another guy on the Djurgården team that gets more ice time and opportunities than he's earned. I think he's 17. Marcus Kruger yet another good example from the same team. That's just how it is in the SEL these days, it weren't before, but I think it'll pay off for Swedish hockey since I think the Swedish national team will be better in the long run and Sweden will have more world class players, and therefore the interest will rise. And in the WJC it already have payed off, Sweden have always been really bad on the junior level, but these days I'd say they are among the best. Canada of course is better, but Sweden really gives USA a run for the money. Russia I don't think is among the top 3 even though they won the last WJC, that was a fluke where they had 2 great players but won 2 games where they were outplayed on what I saw as luck. The last few years before that they've gotten crushed by Sweden, USA and Canada. Oh, well...

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11-04-2011, 07:01 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by thephillyflu View Post
Come on man, stop being ridiculous. The 5+ guys drafted in the first round every year from the SEL are most often just on the brink of making their Swedish team. That's how it was for Rundblad for instance.

Although, in Sweden your allowed 20 skaters dressed for every game. So there's almost always 2 guys sitting out, but that counts as having played a game. Rundblad is a good example, I think he was dressed for something like 40 games his first season, and that's how many games it says he played, but he maybe had ice time in at most 20. And he got drafted in the first round. And the same goes for Zibanejad, also having a hard time getting a regular spot on the top-18.

Then, however, Sweden is pretty good at developing talent. Players who's contemporary quality should put them at 4th line or maybe even out of the team often get to play 1st or 2nd line minutes if they are 18-19.

Zibanejad, for now, is nothing in the SEL. If he was exactly the player he is, but 27 years instead of 18, he would play on the 4th line or maybe not even making the team. Now he gets to play in the 1st line. That's always how it is, and that's exactly how it is in the NHL also. Every hockey coach want to develop talent, and I think the SEL is the most extreme example in the world of actually GIVING youngsters ice time that they don't deserve so they can develop. Even the national team does the same, they go to most World Championship with at least 5-10 young players that are worse players than 5-10 senior players that got left at home.

And yeah, if some of the SEL's better players got the chance and playing time Mika got in Ottawa this year, they would make more of it. But that's not how the world of hockey, or sports in general, work. You give kids playing time that they haven't earned, but you don't give players at the height of quality of their career (27 years+) time on ice if they haven't earned it.

And the AHL is a much worse league than the SEL. If I'd take an example from Binghampton, I'd take Mattias Karlsson or Erik Karlsson. Mattias Karlsson put up 51 points in 73 games in Binghampton, but haven't before or since put up more than even 15 points in the SEL on the 55 games. Erik Karlsson scored more in 12 games in Binghampton than he scored in 40 games in the SEL 5-9 months earlier.

I know those kinds of comparisons never are absolute, but, man... Zibanejad is not a star in the SEL, not by a long shot. Yet he get the opportunities on the PP and on the first line that he doesn't deserve, because the coaches believe it'll pay off, like it did for Brynäs with Silfverberg and Järnkrok. When they started playing PP and first line minutes they were nothing, they even had a hard time keeping their spot on the roster. But if they get to come up from the juniors, they get the best opportunities possible. And now, a few years later, they are both somewhat semi-stars on their team and in the league.

But you go on believing Zibanejad is among the best players on his team right now just because he gets among the most opportunities to play.
Agree

Quote:
Originally Posted by thephillyflu View Post
And by the way, the guy missing his pass was Åberg, the kid. Another guy on the Djurgården team that gets more ice time and opportunities than he's earned. I think he's 17. Marcus Kruger yet another good example from the same team. That's just how it is in the SEL these days, it weren't before, but I think it'll pay off for Swedish hockey since I think the Swedish national team will be better in the long run and Sweden will have more world class players, and therefore the interest will rise. And in the WJC it already have payed off, Sweden have always been really bad on the junior level, but these days I'd say they are among the best. Canada of course is better, but Sweden really gives USA a run for the money. Russia I don't think is among the top 3 even though they won the last WJC, that was a fluke where they had 2 great players but won 2 games where they were outplayed on what I saw as luck. The last few years before that they've gotten crushed by Sweden, USA and Canada. Oh, well...
Agree

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Old
11-05-2011, 11:00 AM
  #306
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zibby scores!

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11-05-2011, 11:01 AM
  #307
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Zibanejad just scored against Timrå!

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11-05-2011, 11:02 AM
  #308
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Woot!...Go Zibby!(and Djurgarden)

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11-05-2011, 11:19 AM
  #309
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Almost had his 2nd goal, missed a breakaway then runs over the goalie lol

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11-05-2011, 11:20 AM
  #310
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Wow, Zibby just flew in all alone on the PK. Got a charging penalty, but man....flying. Looked like Forsberg. That's the most authority he's skated the puck with this season.

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11-05-2011, 11:22 AM
  #311
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Is there a stream some-where?

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11-05-2011, 12:13 PM
  #312
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Zibby's on the 1st PK, 2nd PP.

And he just hit the outside of the post on open net.

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11-05-2011, 12:18 PM
  #313
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How's Claesson/Aberg lookin in this game?

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11-05-2011, 12:24 PM
  #314
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How's Claesson/Aberg lookin in this game?
Claesson looks solid. Did a good job today. Åberg continues to be the best forward Djurgården has.

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11-05-2011, 12:34 PM
  #315
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Zibby's on the 1st PK, 2nd PP.

And he just hit the outside of the post on open net.
How are you watching this?

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11-05-2011, 02:02 PM
  #316
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http://www.elitserienplay.se/#/video.1260207563001

His goal at 0:45. If you keep watching you can see three more chances he had.

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11-05-2011, 03:29 PM
  #317
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Zibanejad just scored against Timrå!
That is what I want to see

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11-05-2011, 05:16 PM
  #318
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Originally Posted by thephillyflu View Post
Come on man, stop being ridiculous. The 5+ guys drafted in the first round every year from the SEL are most often just on the brink of making their Swedish team. That's how it was for Rundblad for instance.

Although, in Sweden your allowed 20 skaters dressed for every game. So there's almost always 2 guys sitting out, but that counts as having played a game. Rundblad is a good example, I think he was dressed for something like 40 games his first season, and that's how many games it says he played, but he maybe had ice time in at most 20. And he got drafted in the first round. And the same goes for Zibanejad, also having a hard time getting a regular spot on the top-18.

Then, however, Sweden is pretty good at developing talent. Players who's contemporary quality should put them at 4th line or maybe even out of the team often get to play 1st or 2nd line minutes if they are 18-19.

Zibanejad, for now, is nothing in the SEL. If he was exactly the player he is, but 27 years instead of 18, he would play on the 4th line or maybe not even making the team. Now he gets to play in the 1st line. That's always how it is, and that's exactly how it is in the NHL also. Every hockey coach want to develop talent, and I think the SEL is the most extreme example in the world of actually GIVING youngsters ice time that they don't deserve so they can develop. Even the national team does the same, they go to most World Championship with at least 5-10 young players that are worse players than 5-10 senior players that got left at home.

And yeah, if some of the SEL's better players got the chance and playing time Mika got in Ottawa this year, they would make more of it. But that's not how the world of hockey, or sports in general, work. You give kids playing time that they haven't earned, but you don't give players at the height of quality of their career (27 years+) time on ice if they haven't earned it.

And the AHL is a much worse league than the SEL. If I'd take an example from Binghampton, I'd take Mattias Karlsson or Erik Karlsson. Mattias Karlsson put up 51 points in 73 games in Binghampton, but haven't before or since put up more than even 15 points in the SEL on the 55 games. Erik Karlsson scored more in 12 games in Binghampton than he scored in 40 games in the SEL 5-9 months earlier.

I know those kinds of comparisons never are absolute, but, man... Zibanejad is not a star in the SEL, not by a long shot. Yet he get the opportunities on the PP and on the first line that he doesn't deserve, because the coaches believe it'll pay off, like it did for Brynäs with Silfverberg and Järnkrok. When they started playing PP and first line minutes they were nothing, they even had a hard time keeping their spot on the roster. But if they get to come up from the juniors, they get the best opportunities possible. And now, a few years later, they are both somewhat semi-stars on their team and in the league.

But you go on believing Zibanejad is among the best players on his team right now just because he gets among the most opportunities to play.

One should also keep in mind that, SEL doesn't have commercial breaks and the ice is bigger = less rest and more skating. You can't play the best lines as much as in NA, the coach has too spread the time across the lines more. The best players rarely have a TOI over 20, which gives the other players more TOI than they would in NA.

1 forward in SEL with a TOI/G over 20 ATM http://estat.hockeyligan.se/c/LPlaye...YearCategory=0
29 in the NHL http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...ewName=summary


Last edited by AE: 11-05-2011 at 05:25 PM.
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11-05-2011, 05:30 PM
  #319
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One should also keep in mind that, SEL doesn't have commercial breaks and the ice is bigger = less rest and more skating. You can't play the best lines as much as in NA, the coach has too spread the time across the lines more. The best players rarely have a TOI over 20, which gives the other players more TOI than they would in NA.

1 forward in SEL with a TOI/G over 20 ATM http://estat.hockeyligan.se/c/LPlaye...YearCategory=0
29 in the NHL http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...ewName=summary
There is more of a gap between good players and bad players in the NHL than in the SEL so coaches choose to play the good ones more. Also NHLers are in better shape.

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11-05-2011, 06:07 PM
  #320
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There is more of a gap between good players and bad players in the NHL than in the SEL so coaches choose to play the good ones more. Also NHLers are in better shape.
No. The difference between playing in the nhl is much more the level of talent rather than the shape the players is in. I'd wager that there are many guys in the SEL more fit than many of the NHL players today. Just because it's not the nhl doesn't mean that it's a beer league.

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11-05-2011, 07:47 PM
  #321
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This is a guy who has scored 10 points in 29 SEL-games. Thats it, no more, no less.
When did he become a star player? He never was it in the SEL, and he will not be that this season either. Dominate the SEL? Come on...

He has great potential and probably can develop into something special this year. But dont rush it or he will end up to become nothing. Getting back to the SEL, getting his feet down to earth again and realize where his at, was probably the best thing that could happen.

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11-05-2011, 07:56 PM
  #322
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This is a guy who has scored 10 points in 29 SEL-games. Thats it, no more, no less.
When did he become a star player? He never was it in the SEL, and he will not be that this season either. Dominate the SEL? Come on...

He has great potential and probably can develop into something special this year. But dont rush it or he will end up to become nothing. Getting back to the SEL, getting his feet down to earth again and realize where his at, was probably the best thing that could happen.
He'll probably be anywhere from 30-40 points this year, could be a high end player in the league by the end of the season.

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11-05-2011, 09:25 PM
  #323
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He'll probably be anywhere from 30-40 points this year, could be a high end player in the league by the end of the season.
But there's not 82 games in the SEL. Already 20 games are gone, so roughly 35 games left. Not sure that Zbad will be a PPG player this year.

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11-05-2011, 09:33 PM
  #324
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But there's not 82 games in the SEL. Already 20 games are gone, so roughly 35 games left. Not sure that Zbad will be a PPG player this year.
Sorry, 30-40 points relative to a full or close to full SEL season. I think he could have a season much like Silfverberg had last season, relatively speaking.

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11-05-2011, 11:06 PM
  #325
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Originally Posted by Glory View Post
http://www.elitserienplay.se/#/video.1260207563001

His goal at 0:45. If you keep watching you can see three more chances he had.
He seems really down in the interview at the end.

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