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Old
11-06-2011, 08:26 AM
  #1
FlyerFire
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Defense going forward

Do we trade for Weber(if even possible), wait for UFA status on Suter, trade for rights to Suter, or go another route? Rather not give up assets needed to acquire Weber.Would like to see Schenn stay if possible with Couturier in Philly. Thoughts?

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11-06-2011, 08:32 AM
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RJ8812
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why are we already talking about acquiring Weber?

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11-06-2011, 08:42 AM
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see the Weber thread on the main board. Just following up here from that discussion

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11-06-2011, 08:50 AM
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BobbyClarkeFan16
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Well, all what I can say is that according to one of my scout friends here in London, Holmgren is already sniffing around to see if he can upgrade the defense core. Other than Timonen and Pronger, no one is safe. From what he stated, Winnipeg, Calgary, and Edmonton are interested in Coburn. As well, Phoenix has expressed an interest in Andrej Meszaros and Colorado has interest in Matt Carle. So, if Holmgren really wants to shake things up on D, there's three potential moves right there. Anyways, Holmgren isn't very pleased with their play and he really expected those three to take big steps forward this year and they haven't. Obviously it's early in the year, but if Holmgren and Laviolette don't start seeing these three step up, it's very possible that two, if not, all three of them could be moved.......

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11-06-2011, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Well, all what I can say is that according to one of my scout friends here in London, Holmgren is already sniffing around to see if he can upgrade the defense core. Other than Timonen and Pronger, no one is safe. From what he stated, Winnipeg, Calgary, and Edmonton are interested in Coburn. As well, Phoenix has expressed an interest in Andrej Meszaros and Colorado has interest in Matt Carle. So, if Holmgren really wants to shake things up on D, there's three potential moves right there. Anyways, Holmgren isn't very pleased with their play and he really expected those three to take big steps forward this year and they haven't. Obviously it's early in the year, but if Holmgren and Laviolette don't start seeing these three step up, it's very possible that two, if not, all three of them could be moved.......
All 3 being shipped out same year? That would be beyond extreme and disruptive. I can see it being staggered with mesz and carle but I would like to keep Coburn. I did read that somewhere that snider is a no crap mood and doesnt want the team stumbling into the playoffs or worse not making it so if there is any stumbling he wants to nip it in the bud..

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11-06-2011, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Coutsiephan View Post
All 3 being shipped out same year? That would be beyond extreme and disruptive. I can see it being staggered with mesz and carle but I would like to keep Coburn. I did read that somewhere that snider is a no crap mood and doesnt want the team stumbling into the playoffs or worse not making it so if there is any stumbling he wants to nip it in the bud..
Yep. When Holmgren went to Snider this past off season with regards to the plan to remake the club, Snider gave him a stern warning that if this fails, it's on his head. Like I said, I don't think that Holmgren will deal all three defensemen. With that being said, the three of them have officially been put on notice that if they don't get their acts together (and quickly), then they can expect to be moved elsewhere.

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11-06-2011, 09:22 AM
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Off-season plan:

Keep Pronger, Timonen and Coburn.
Get Suter by acquiring his right for a prospect (not Schenn, Couturier, Gustaffson, Wellwood or Read) and a third round pick, maybe even one of our 2nd round picks.
Sign Suter to a reasonable long term contract in terms of cap-hit (thinking $5.75m max).
Trade Meszaros for a good D prospect and a pick.
Let Carle go.
Give Gustaffson a legit chance to develop.
Sign Wideman, Mitchell, Sarich, Hannan or Sauer for the third pairing over Lilja.

Go with an insane top 4 of Pronger, Suter, Timonen and Coburn and try to develop Gustaffson into another one in advance of Timonen's retirement.

I love Meszaros and if it would work with the cap I'd keep him over the UFA guys I listed, but we might get some good return for him.

If Suter will be too pricey, I'd like Brad Stuart for 2 years.

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11-06-2011, 09:54 AM
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Philly's defense is a DISASTER. Dependent on a 35 yr old who is becoming prone to injuries, and another 35 yr old in the twilight of his career. Bolstered by threeo younger guys (Coburn Mesz and Carle) who are NOT star potentiola, and will probably never be as good as Pronger and Timo in their prime.

Weber or Suter is a MUST for this team. I'd like to keep Mez, but IMO Carle and yes, Timo, too should be let go if it helps land one of those guys.

A top 4 of Suter, Prongs, COburn and Mesz is not bad at all.

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11-06-2011, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
why are we already talking about acquiring Weber?
Cuz Pronger is injured and Timo is getting older.

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11-06-2011, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Well, all what I can say is that according to one of my scout friends here in London, Holmgren is already sniffing around to see if he can upgrade the defense core. Other than Timonen and Pronger, no one is safe. From what he stated, Winnipeg, Calgary, and Edmonton are interested in Coburn. As well, Phoenix has expressed an interest in Andrej Meszaros and Colorado has interest in Matt Carle. So, if Holmgren really wants to shake things up on D, there's three potential moves right there. Anyways, Holmgren isn't very pleased with their play and he really expected those three to take big steps forward this year and they haven't. Obviously it's early in the year, but if Holmgren and Laviolette don't start seeing these three step up, it's very possible that two, if not, all three of them could be moved.......
If Colorado seriously loves Matt Carle, I wonder if a package could be built to acquire Erik Johnson?

Although I still think the ideal fit here is Shea Weber.

First pairing: Pronger + Weber
Second pairing: Timonen + Coburn
Third pairing Carle or Mesz + Gustafsson

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11-06-2011, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
If Colorado seriously loves Matt Carle, I wonder if a package could be built to acquire Erik Johnson?

Although I still think the ideal fit here is Shea Weber.

First pairing: Pronger + Weber
Second pairing: Timonen + Coburn
Third pairing Carle or Mesz + Gustafsson
Erik Johnson won't be dealt.

That D will be too expensive.

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11-06-2011, 11:01 AM
  #12
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Originally Posted by FlyerFire View Post
Do we trade for Weber(if even possible), wait for UFA status on Suter, trade for rights to Suter, or go another route? Rather not give up assets needed to acquire Weber.Would like to see Schenn stay if possible with Couturier in Philly. Thoughts?
If I can ask, why are you so opposed to moving the assets needed to get Weber?

Right now, this team is in excellent shape, our only huge need is a good young defenseman.

We have quite possibly the best top line in the league, we have some tremendous chemistry on the 2nd line between JVR and Briere starting to form and we have an excellent 3rd line too, complete w/ 2 rookies in the top 5 in rookie scoring, one of whom (Couturier) is 2nd in the whole NHL in +/- while playing on the 3rd / 4th line and often taking on some challenging defensive assignments.

And this is all w/ Brayden Schenn out w/ a broken foot.

My question is, where does Schenn fit, both now and going forward? Obviously you would need to find / make room for a player of his caliber, but if the right move comes along, isn't it easier / better to use him to acquire our long-term #1 shutdown defender? Right now we have 4 centers to fill 3 top-9 roles on our first 3 lines. Giroux isn't moving. And while we might like to move Briere, he has a NMC and is pretty much untouchable (plus he plays pretty darn well for us). That leaves Couturier and Schenn. And from what I've seen from Couturier so far, there's no chance I'm moving him.

That leaves Schenn. Either we move him or we have to play him @ wing and jumble the lines yet again.

So with that in mind, if you can move Schenn + one of the current defensemen (Carle or Coburn or Mesz) + picks for Weber, don't you have to consider it? Won't it make your team better both now and going forward?

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11-06-2011, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dookie88 View Post
Erik Johnson won't be dealt.

That D will be too expensive.
That D was just for this year... obviously Carle would need to be replaced after this year with a cheaper #5.

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11-06-2011, 11:29 AM
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So with that in mind, if you can move Schenn + one of the current defensemen (Carle or Coburn or Mesz) + picks for Weber, don't you have to consider it? Won't it make your team better both now and going forward?[/QUOTE]

Just like Nashville is facing, we wont be able to afford the luxury. Schenn is still cheaper contract, right now

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11-06-2011, 11:54 AM
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Carle to Colorado for Gaunce and a pick would be a good move, in my opinion.

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11-06-2011, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Yep. When Holmgren went to Snider this past off season with regards to the plan to remake the club, Snider gave him a stern warning that if this fails, it's on his head. Like I said, I don't think that Holmgren will deal all three defensemen. With that being said, the three of them have officially been put on notice that if they don't get their acts together (and quickly), then they can expect to be moved elsewhere.
It was all Snider this past offseason. It wasn't Homer.

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11-06-2011, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Hollywood Couturier View Post
It was all Snider this past offseason. It wasn't Homer.
I get the impression Snider's prerogative was to get Bryzgalov and the Carter/Richards deals were more Holmgren's initiative.

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11-06-2011, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by BrimFullofAsham45 View Post
I get the impression Snider's prerogative was to get Bryzgalov and the Carter/Richards deals were more Holmgren's initiative.
Ah, I sincerely doubt that last part, unless Homer is that good of an actor. (Quite sure I read to the contrary as well)

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11-06-2011, 02:09 PM
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So when did NSH say they were not going to try to resign Weber or Suter.

After the Rinne signing they basically said "these 3 are not going anywhere, we will build the team around them".

As much as I would like these guys, pipe dream...unless someone pulls a carson palmer.

Also....why would COL trade Johnson? Has he already worn out his welcome with COL after not even playing a full season? There is no way they move him.

I don't see the point in trading any of Mez, Carle, Coburn to get worse this year.

Its really way too early because everyone is still "in it". Nobody (of significance) is getting traded (league wide) right now.

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11-06-2011, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by achdumeingute View Post
So when did NSH say they were not going to try to resign Weber or Suter.

After the Rinne signing they basically said "these 3 are not going anywhere, we will build the team around them".

As much as I would like these guys, pipe dream...unless someone pulls a carson palmer.

Also....why would COL trade Johnson? Has he already worn out his welcome with COL after not even playing a full season? There is no way they move him.

I don't see the point in trading any of Mez, Carle, Coburn to get worse this year.

Its really way too early because everyone is still "in it". Nobody (of significance) is getting traded (league wide) right now.
It's assumed one or both are moving due to NSH having an internal budget they do not spend to the cap and typically only go to right about halfway. All 3 are probably looking at and rightfully deserve 6.5-7+ if not more per year. Having 21 Million tied up in 3 (albeit great) players that make up your core is suicide for a team that has an internal budget. If they decide they are going to spend to the cap then goodfor them and they won't move but if they stay consistent one or both are moving.

Also you have to consider they have a ton of defensive prospects that can make the jump into the NHL that are cheaper and can step in. They locked up the key peice which is Rinne and will probably look to move one or both at the trade deadline unless they feel they are a contendor with their current team.

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11-06-2011, 03:02 PM
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Trade Gus and Bartulis for Weber. Sign him for $2 million a year.

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11-06-2011, 03:13 PM
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Trade Gus and Bartulis for Weber. Sign him for $2 million a year.
We're talking a "reasonable" contract. If that is long term for that price, forget it!

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11-06-2011, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by dookie88 View Post
Off-season plan:

Keep Pronger, Timonen and Coburn.
Get Suter by acquiring his right for a prospect (not Schenn, Couturier, Gustaffson, Wellwood or Read) and a third round pick, maybe even one of our 2nd round picks.
Sign Suter to a reasonable long term contract in terms of cap-hit (thinking $5.75m max).
Trade Meszaros for a good D prospect and a pick.
Let Carle go.
Give Gustaffson a legit chance to develop.
Sign Wideman, Mitchell, Sarich, Hannan or Sauer for the third pairing over Lilja.

Go with an insane top 4 of Pronger, Suter, Timonen and Coburn and try to develop Gustaffson into another one in advance of Timonen's retirement.

I love Meszaros and if it would work with the cap I'd keep him over the UFA guys I listed, but we might get some good return for him.

If Suter will be too pricey, I'd like Brad Stuart for 2 years.
You know I usually hate these grand scheme tinkering posts, but yours ain't so bad. At first I was reluctant to say we should trade Mez...but at the same time, if we're building off of that top 4 we're going to need very good D prospects in the tube. I honestly would like to keep Mez if we can somehow.

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11-06-2011, 03:18 PM
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How much of the concern over defense is due to Pronger's injury? I don't get to watch any games, so I have no clue how they played before or after the injury. And if we acquire any defensemen, we'll have to get decently priced ones. I don't see any Webers in the future, more like steady 3 mil per season players.

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11-06-2011, 03:21 PM
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decadentia
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How much of the concern over defense is due to Pronger's injury? I don't get to watch any games, so I have no clue how they played before or after the injury. And if we acquire any defensemen, we'll have to get decently priced ones. I don't see any Webers in the future, more like steady 3 mil per season players.
I would say it's more due to concern over Pronger with injuries, along with Timonen tailing off/retiring in the near future.

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