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Old
11-05-2011, 10:00 PM
  #151
fredrikstad
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Originally Posted by TollefsenFan View Post
Last season he produced 0,5 points pr game + briliiant in the so. Imo thats more then good enough.
Maybe your right. But he need to stop acting like he has nothing to prove in the minors.
No points again tonigth. He had a shootoutgoal,but I expect him to produce at least a point a game in AHL.

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11-06-2011, 02:43 AM
  #152
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Maybe your right. But he need to stop acting like he has nothing to prove in the minors.
No points again tonigth. He had a shootoutgoal,but I expect him to produce at least a point a game in AHL.
Zuke so far has more than a point/game...... He has points in 5 of his 7 games, and the other two he has scored in the shootout. IOW he has contributed in every game he has played so far. But this doesn´t really matter in terms of him making the Rangers or not.
The Norwegian fans has to accept that Zuccarello will not be seen in the Rangers´jersey any more. Only a serious injury on at least two of the top 6 will give him a chance to be called up.

Now the question is if he will play out his contract with the Rangers in Connecticut, and see if there is a possibility for him to sign for another NHL club this summer.

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11-06-2011, 04:46 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by TigerJack View Post
Zuke so far has more than a point/game...... He has points in 5 of his 7 games, and the other two he has scored in the shootout. IOW he has contributed in every game he has played so far. But this doesn´t really matter in terms of him making the Rangers or not.
The Norwegian fans has to accept that Zuccarello will not be seen in the Rangers´jersey any more. Only a serious injury on at least two of the top 6 will give him a chance to be called up.

Now the question is if he will play out his contract with the Rangers in Connecticut, and see if there is a possibility for him to sign for another NHL club this summer.
As I haven`t seen any Whale games with Zucca so far,I have to rely on those who has. Like Leslie Treff who says he has lost his effort and are invisible for long periods,no?
And he is sited as he feel he has no more to prove in the minors.

Do you know for a fact that his not gonna be called up? What has he done to join Torts doghousae?
Is this the problem?
http://www.rangercrisis.com/

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11-06-2011, 05:04 AM
  #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerJack View Post
Zuke so far has more than a point/game...... He has points in 5 of his 7 games, and the other two he has scored in the shootout. IOW he has contributed in every game he has played so far. But this doesn´t really matter in terms of him making the Rangers or not.
The Norwegian fans has to accept that Zuccarello will not be seen in the Rangers´jersey any more. Only a serious injury on at least two of the top 6 will give him a chance to be called up.

Now the question is if he will play out his contract with the Rangers in Connecticut, and see if there is a possibility for him to sign for another NHL club this summer.
I think it is quite clear that numerous people here do not understand how this works. Players are signed to contracts in the NHL. These contracts are seen as assets by each respective club. If a player is under contract - in the NHL or in an AHL affiliate - the decision is entirely up to the NHL club "owning" these rights. Letting a player go to a league outside the realm of control of the club that owns these rights is seldom in their best interest.
After the two year contract that MZA has signed - his rights are to be renegotiated as he becomes a so-called restricted free agent then. New York can retain his rights by qualifying him next summer - as they most likely will. Thereby offering a contract at 10% his entry level contract. Then they still own his rights. This is a business people. Nothing else. The Rangers have invested lot´s of money here and see it foremost as asset management. As they should and as should the player understand these rules when he signs the economically very stimulating contracts.
I believe that the only way the "large contingent from a certain geographical Nation" might get to be happy here is if his play elevates up on to the level that the coaching decides he has a long-term spot on the team. Which he evidently has not yet proven. Otherwise he cannot just sulkingly bolt back to Europe - without basically throwing his NHL career away 4ever. If he goes to Europe after this year - the Rangers will still own his rights (if resigned). It is that simple. He can of course be traded somewhere elsewhere - but at this moment this is probably not optimal valuewise for the Rangers. This situation might be different down the line - but a bit of patience & less talking to the Norwegian media would probably do him some good.
If I think he deserves to play on the NYR squad right now? Probably - yes. I do. His precamp was good, the first game was a nightmare in Stockholm (I was there btw), Wolski got hurt, the lines got juggled up and there was no place for him as the coach wants the team constructed right now. Something I might not totally agree with - but that is how it is. He will defintely get a fair shot further down the line as injuries always happen - but the timing needs to be right. There has to be a fit on the team where his extensive skills are utilized in the best way. According to the coach. Myself, all the fans & HFboard posters and anyone else may think we have other theoretical combinations that would work better - but we are not the ones calling the shots here. I think a bit of patience - maybe combined with a straight "airclearing" chat between MZA and NYR management - is the best solution now. Combined with stellar play in CT of course. That way - they either have to find a place for him on the team - or move him elsewhere.

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11-06-2011, 09:33 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
After the two year contract that MZA has signed - his rights are to be renegotiated as he becomes a so-called restricted free agent then. New York can retain his rights by qualifying him next summer - as they most likely will. Thereby offering a contract at 10% his entry level contract. Then they still own his rights. This is a business people. Nothing else. The Rangers have invested lot´s of money here and see it foremost as asset management. As they should and as should the player understand these rules when he signs the economically very stimulating contracts.
Ok.
I thought another NHL club could offer a restricted free agent a contract, and that his club then has to match this offer to keep him.

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11-06-2011, 10:10 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by TigerJack View Post
Ok.
I thought another NHL club could offer a restricted free agent a contract, and that his club then has to match this offer to keep him.
That is an option, but they (NYR) can match any counteroffer first (see Hjalmarsson etc...)... which of course in theory would be a possibility...

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11-06-2011, 11:42 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Norwegian View Post
Does it not bother you Rangersfans that you are one of, if not the most boring team in the NHL?
A norwegian calling someone else boring?

If Zuccarello was as good as some of you claim shouldn't he have proven it on the ice by now?

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11-06-2011, 11:55 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Mr Atoz View Post
A norwegian calling someone else boring?

If Zuccarello was as good as some of you claim shouldn't he have proven it on the ice by now?
5th on the Rangers team in points per game (2010-11)
3rd on the Rangers team in points per minute (2010-11)
Plus player in the nhl
Plus player in AHL
Around a point per game player in AHL

I'm not saying that proves he is great but I dont know many teams that would have a rookie produce like that and not give him a chance with a legit shift the next season.

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11-06-2011, 03:24 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by fredrikstad View Post
Maybe your right. But he need to stop acting like he has nothing to prove in the minors.
No points again tonigth. He had a shootoutgoal,but I expect him to produce at least a point a game in AHL.
7 games 8 points 2/2 in the so. There are only 2 games he didnt put up points, but in those two game he scored in the so. So hes been involved in every game so far.

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11-06-2011, 03:37 PM
  #160
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I am not joking here - is there any way of filtering out all NYR "fans" with less than 2 years status on these boards - with a certain Nordic heritage/country??? Annoying it is getting... Now you know how it is to hear about their Crosscountry & Nordic skiing dominance 24/12 in all media (have lived there)... They should stick with that & avoid icehockey....which they know nothing about. OK - just kidding - but annoying it is nonetheless.

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11-06-2011, 03:53 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by TigerJack View Post
Zuke so far has more than a point/game...... He has points in 5 of his 7 games, and the other two he has scored in the shootout. IOW he has contributed in every game he has played so far. But this doesn´t really matter in terms of him making the Rangers or not.
The Norwegian fans has to accept that Zuccarello will not be seen in the Rangers´jersey any more. Only a serious injury on at least two of the top 6 will give him a chance to be called up.


Now the question is if he will play out his contract with the Rangers in Connecticut, and see if there is a possibility for him to sign for another NHL club this summer.
A lot of NHL players have played down in the minors for more than 7 games before earning a call up. This isn't unusual. The conclusion that he's never going to play on the Rangers again is based on nothing. Callahan got sent down to the AHL after a long stint in the NHL and they didn't exactly give up on him did they?

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11-06-2011, 04:03 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
I think it is quite clear that numerous people here do not understand how this works. Players are signed to contracts in the NHL. These contracts are seen as assets by each respective club. If a player is under contract - in the NHL or in an AHL affiliate - the decision is entirely up to the NHL club "owning" these rights. Letting a player go to a league outside the realm of control of the club that owns these rights is seldom in their best interest.
After the two year contract that MZA has signed - his rights are to be renegotiated as he becomes a so-called restricted free agent then. New York can retain his rights by qualifying him next summer - as they most likely will. Thereby offering a contract at 10% his entry level contract. Then they still own his rights. This is a business people. Nothing else. The Rangers have invested lot´s of money here and see it foremost as asset management. As they should and as should the player understand these rules when he signs the economically very stimulating contracts.
I believe that the only way the "large contingent from a certain geographical Nation" might get to be happy here is if his play elevates up on to the level that the coaching decides he has a long-term spot on the team. Which he evidently has not yet proven. Otherwise he cannot just sulkingly bolt back to Europe - without basically throwing his NHL career away 4ever. If he goes to Europe after this year - the Rangers will still own his rights (if resigned). It is that simple. He can of course be traded somewhere elsewhere - but at this moment this is probably not optimal valuewise for the Rangers. This situation might be different down the line - but a bit of patience & less talking to the Norwegian media would probably do him some good.
If I think he deserves to play on the NYR squad right now? Probably - yes. I do. His precamp was good, the first game was a nightmare in Stockholm (I was there btw), Wolski got hurt, the lines got juggled up and there was no place for him as the coach wants the team constructed right now. Something I might not totally agree with - but that is how it is. He will defintely get a fair shot further down the line as injuries always happen - but the timing needs to be right. There has to be a fit on the team where his extensive skills are utilized in the best way. According to the coach. Myself, all the fans & HFboard posters and anyone else may think we have other theoretical combinations that would work better - but we are not the ones calling the shots here. I think a bit of patience - maybe combined with a straight "airclearing" chat between MZA and NYR management - is the best solution now. Combined with stellar play in CT of course. That way - they either have to find a place for him on the team - or move him elsewhere.
Economic stimulating only if playing for the big club.

Look,I agreed to most of all you are saing here.
But you have to understand,that he is the only player we have at this level,and the Norwegian media jump on him all the time. He has only polite answered theres questions.
For the sweedes it works a litle different,the have numeroues prospects an close to 100 players in NHL,so less focus on each and every player.
But there are writing and whining about most of the sweedes playing in AHL.
Linus Omark by the way has stadet, there is now way he gonna spend the season down in the minors. He have told hes former team Luleĺ that no is the time to make an offer. But then again,he has a clausule allowing him to go to europe, if send to the minors.

By the way,there is an option here. Don`t open treads where you ecpect those from a certain scandinavian country have the most interesse in

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11-06-2011, 04:05 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
I am not joking here - is there any way of filtering out all NYR "fans" with less than 2 years status on these boards - with a certain Nordic heritage/country??? Annoying it is getting... Now you know how it is to hear about their Crosscountry & Nordic skiing dominance 24/12 in all media (have lived there)... They should stick with that & avoid icehockey....which they know nothing about. OK - just kidding - but annoying it is nonetheless.
Interesting words from an icelandic guy, at least we have winter sports to talk about.. and if we are annoying...dont read MZA threads!

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11-06-2011, 09:04 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
I am not joking here - is there any way of filtering out all NYR "fans" with less than 2 years status on these boards - with a certain Nordic heritage/country??? Annoying it is getting... Now you know how it is to hear about their Crosscountry & Nordic skiing dominance 24/12 in all media (have lived there)... They should stick with that & avoid icehockey....which they know nothing about. OK - just kidding - but annoying it is nonetheless.
At least we are good in something... Hellooo!

Just joking, but I do understand its a little annoying having us norwegian fellas here.

But you have to understand that hockey is a small sport in this country and we are just thrilled that we have a player who can, in a couple of years, become a full time NHL player.

Oh, fun fact; The town that I live in has the largest mouintan hall arena in the world. This was built in 1994, because of the olympics who was held in the neighbourtown Lillehammer. I think the quarterfinals was played there.

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11-06-2011, 09:09 PM
  #165
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with the way the top 2 lines are playing there is no way MZA is going to be playing up here barring injury or barring some rapid turnaround of ppls games. i just dont see the room for this kid.

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11-07-2011, 03:37 AM
  #166
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with the way the top 2 lines are playing there is no way MZA is going to be playing up here barring injury or barring some rapid turnaround of ppls games. i just dont see the room for this kid.
Unfortunatly, I agree with you. There is now way you change a winning team, even with WW out. A week ago, with, what, 17 shots on goal, there was definatly room for him in the top six, but that has changed now.

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11-07-2011, 04:00 AM
  #167
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Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
I am not joking here - is there any way of filtering out all NYR "fans" with less than 2 years status on these boards - with a certain Nordic heritage/country??? Annoying it is getting... Now you know how it is to hear about their Crosscountry & Nordic skiing dominance 24/12 in all media (have lived there)... They should stick with that & avoid icehockey....which they know nothing about. OK - just kidding - but annoying it is nonetheless.
Times are changing. It's all about football now. As slick ******* called Hauge broke a TV deal of a billion Norwegian Kroner with TV2, and since then it's all about football. Yesterday was the cupfinal and it could easiely have been sold out 6 times the capasity of 26 000. The league is ranked as 26 in Europe and no one can make a pass, all about grinding (-). That's why people with half a brain left are getting pretty desperate to see Zucc in the NHL. Doen'nt seem like it's gonna be in Rangers unfortunately, so odds are you'll be left alone with all the die hard Torts / grindlovers you have recruited the past two years pretty soon I wouldn't underestimate the value of attracting new fans from other parts of the world though. Must be some of the idea behind going to Europe. People start following teams for different reasons, Zucc's as good as any other. Besides Norwegians are likely to be the only Europeans that can afford the ticket in the short / long term.

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11-07-2011, 04:12 AM
  #168
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If Zuccarello was as good as some of you claim shouldn't he have proven it on the ice by now?
I though we were the boring ones..

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11-07-2011, 04:36 AM
  #169
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Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
I am not joking here - is there any way of filtering out all NYR "fans" with less than 2 years status on these boards - with a certain Nordic heritage/country??? Annoying it is getting... Now you know how it is to hear about their Crosscountry & Nordic skiing dominance 24/12 in all media (have lived there)... They should stick with that & avoid icehockey....which they know nothing about. OK - just kidding - but annoying it is nonetheless.
Ha! The norwegians had ONE star ever playing icehockey (Espen Knutsen) so let them have their fun .

Jokes aside though, Norwegian icehockey is on the rise. They just need a good youth system and good youth coaches.

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11-07-2011, 04:43 AM
  #170
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with the way the top 2 lines are playing there is no way MZA is going to be playing up here barring injury or barring some rapid turnaround of ppls games. i just dont see the room for this kid.
You´re right.
But things can change fast. Two or three straight losses, and "Fire Torts" threads will be showing up, and there will be yelling and whining about recalling Mats, and sending down some others.

That´s the life of the fans

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11-07-2011, 05:04 AM
  #171
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That is an option, but they (NYR) can match any counteroffer first (see Hjalmarsson etc...)... which of course in theory would be a possibility...
I´m starting go get some of the NHL-rules, which are quite complicated compared to what we are used to in Europe in other sports, mainly football (soccer).

If we compare Zuccas situation to what would happen in a football club in Europe, 99,9% of the clubs will let a player go if he is not in their future plans. This of course because the contracts are different from the NHL. If a player does not intend to resign his contract, then the club wants to get money for him, and usually sells him before the contract expires. At the end of their contracts they become a so called "Bosman player", which is nothing else than you would call a unrestricted free agent in the NHL-system. And the player can sign for whom i wishes.

What I find problematic with the RFA-system and QO, is that the club has too much ownership in the player, even if he is not in the clubs future.

The question I, and many other norwegians, ask them selves would be:

Why would the Rangers extend a qualifying offer to Zuke after he finishes his entry level contract, if he is not in their plans? For me that is strange. If a firm has an employee that is not wanted, why would they pay him to stay, and do nothing, just to prevent other firms from picking him up?

I know this is a lot about business, but why on earth would Rangers reclaim Zuke´s rights and bury him in the AHL, thus stopping other NHL teams from picking him up without a offering sheet, when he obviously is not in their future plans?

I just don´t get it. I get that they can do this by the rules, but I don´t see any logic to this.

One more question:

Given that The rangers give Zuccarello a qualifying offer at the end of the season, and no other teams extends an offer sheet, and Zuccarello accepts and signs the qualifying offer.

I have read that the new contract is 1 or 2 years. Can Zuccarello decide whether he wants 1 or 2 years?
At the end of this new contract, will he THEN becoma a UFA, even though he is not 27 years old, or can the Rangers keep on giving qualifying offers every time the contract expires until he is 27?

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11-07-2011, 05:08 AM
  #172
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Ha! The norwegians had ONE star ever playing icehockey (Espen Knutsen) so let them have their fun .

Jokes aside though, Norwegian icehockey is on the rise. They just need a good youth system and good youth coaches.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bj%C3%B8rn_Skaare

This is the biggest Norwegian star ever IMO. After one game in the NHL he figured he needed some more seasoning in the AHL, even though they wanted him in Detroit.

(Google translate)
In Detroit.
And the National Hockey League was ready to accept Bjorn Skaare. The question was only whether the recent 20 - year-old from Norway was prepared to meet the NHL. Detroit Red Wings took at least a chance to send him out on the Colorado Rockies in Denver on 29 November 1978. The match ended 2-2, but unfortunately was the end of Bear long before the final whistle sounded. Already in his first change, the center between the superstars Vaclav Nedomansky and Dan Labrĺten Botta struck something hard. He met Barry Beck, Colorado - full-back who is best known as the captain of the New York Rangers in the 80 - century and several times named the world's hardest tackles. Even thought Botta injury he sustained in the face of Beck was nothing to talk about, but the NHL - the debut had still made an impression on him. Such a strong impression that he shocked the Detroit leadership when he demanded the same evening to go back to the farm team in Kansas City even though the manager Lindsay more than keen to keep him in Detroit. According to the press sent Bear "tremors through the entire farm league" by turning his back to the NHL. Never before had there been a player, much less a rookie, of free will had asked to travel from the NHL - the club to the "backyard" CHL. Most of our players would be willing to go all the way to Detroit (1200 km), if we gave them a chance in the NHL, saBob Nelson of Kansas City lead. But Bjorn Skaare comes from another part of the world.

(See, once again Rangers are between Norwegain hockey and the NHL

http://www.furuset.no/index.php?cat=29120

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11-07-2011, 05:15 AM
  #173
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Originally Posted by TigerJack View Post
What I find problematic with the RFA-system and QO, is that the club has too much ownership in the player, even if he is not in the clubs future.

The question I, and many other norwegians, ask them selves would be:

Why would the Rangers extend a qualifying offer to Zuke after he finishes his entry level contract, if he is not in their plans? For me that is strange. If a firm has an employee that is not wanted, why would they pay him to stay, and do nothing, just to prevent other firms from picking him up?

I know this is a lot about business, but why on earth would Rangers reclaim Zuke´s rights and bury him in the AHL, thus stopping other NHL teams from picking him up without a offering sheet, when he obviously is not in their future plans?

I just don´t get it. I get that they can do this by the rules, but I don´t see any logic to this.

One more question:

Given that The rangers give Zuccarello a qualifying offer at the end of the season, and no other teams extends an offer sheet, and Zuccarello accepts and signs the qualifying offer.

I have read that the new contract is 1 or 2 years. Can Zuccarello decide whether he wants 1 or 2 years?
At the end of this new contract, will he THEN becoma a UFA, even though he is not 27 years old, or can the Rangers keep on giving qualifying offers every time the contract expires until he is 27?
Fully behind this questions. I like the fact that you trade rather then buy and sell players, but the RFA system is just weird.

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11-07-2011, 07:39 AM
  #174
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Originally Posted by TigerJack View Post
The question I, and many other norwegians, ask them selves would be:

Why would the Rangers extend a qualifying offer to Zuke after he finishes his entry level contract, if he is not in their plans? For me that is strange. If a firm has an employee that is not wanted, why would they pay him to stay, and do nothing, just to prevent other firms from picking him up?

I know this is a lot about business, but why on earth would Rangers reclaim Zuke´s rights and bury him in the AHL, thus stopping other NHL teams from picking him up without a offering sheet, when he obviously is not in their future plans?

I just don´t get it. I get that they can do this by the rules, but I don´t see any logic to this.

One more question:

Given that The rangers give Zuccarello a qualifying offer at the end of the season, and no other teams extends an offer sheet, and Zuccarello accepts and signs the qualifying offer.

I have read that the new contract is 1 or 2 years. Can Zuccarello decide whether he wants 1 or 2 years?
At the end of this new contract, will he THEN becoma a UFA, even though he is not 27 years old, or can the Rangers keep on giving qualifying offers every time the contract expires until he is 27?
Most likely to prevent the player from having sucsess with another team, and come back to haunt his former club with great playing and scoring,no?

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11-07-2011, 07:47 AM
  #175
anofsti
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerJack View Post
Contracts and player lengts
I think alot of it stems from american sports being more about earning money, and not being best. Becuase of that, the club owners bargain collectivly to keep salaries down, while in europe, they try to outbid each other. That way, they don't only have a complicated rights system, but also finacial head room to "re-buy" the rights; not to forget that they don't have to pay the salaries if the player in question goes to europe. In european sports, if you keep a player you don't intend to use, you're just wasting money, because of big saleries and most clubs are always looking to shed expenses to buy new players.

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