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Dreger: Sharks one of 8 teams in on Turris

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Old
11-02-2011, 05:47 PM
  #76
BrianSmith
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regarding Heatley - guy was the biggest turn over machine out of all our top 6 forwards last year.

Also, comparing what we gave up to get Heatley to Turris is not right. Heatley had 50 goal seasons, broke the 100 pt barrier, was an "all star," was established in the league, etc etc etc.

Turris doesn't even have a 20 goal season, has had one good playoff, is in the middle of some huge controversy, and is really nothing like Heatley.

NOT worth a 1st round pick in my opinion, and not even in the same scenario as Heatley.

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11-02-2011, 05:48 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
Even with injuries, the decline of his skating is another point. That is an off-season exercise and if hindered by injury should have been addressed with medical people. I suspect that there is a medical path to correction that would involve significant time off from the sport.
I'm pretty sure injuries is the only reason for his decline in skating. He was actually an above average skater in the 09-10 season and in the first half of the 10-11 season. And I don't see how not taking the medical path is a sign of character issues. No player wants to sit out for a good portion of the year if they can help it. Even with minor injuries, he was still able to help out the team and produce at a near elite level. He can't do that on the LTIR.

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11-02-2011, 06:00 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by ChompChomp View Post
I understand why he's holding out, money:
http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/T...494/story.html

He wanted $4M per, Yotes balked, and now the Yotes say they won't trade him under ANY circumstances (see the quote in the article). So they are trying to force him to cave in to avoid going 2011-2012 without an NHL paycheck. Turris can sidestep with an offer sheet and it's in his best interest to do so (Assuming teams are throwing them out there).

Forget about the Sharks for a second, put yourself in the shoes of Turris. The Yotes say they won't trade you and want you to sign for their price or sit out without pay. You want $4M per, but nobody in the league is going to pay you that at this point. If I am in those shoes, and other teams will sign me for my services at just about any amount higher than what the Yotes are currently offering, thus insuring my NHL paycheck for 2011-2012, I'd be considering it at this point with less than one month to go before that 12/1 drop dead date. I really doubt a 22 year old can "afford" (in multiple senses of the word) to go an entire NHL season without pay.

I don't know if a KHL team (or other league) is calling, but I haven't heard much in that front so I am assuming he wants to play 11-12 in the NHL.
Actually, no that's not true. He said himself the demands were a ruse to try to force a trade, it isn't about the money.

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11-02-2011, 06:02 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianSmith View Post
regarding Heatley - guy was the biggest turn over machine out of all our top 6 forwards last year.

Also, comparing what we gave up to get Heatley to Turris is not right. Heatley had 50 goal seasons, broke the 100 pt barrier, was an "all star," was established in the league, etc etc etc.

Turris doesn't even have a 20 goal season, has had one good playoff, is in the middle of some huge controversy, and is really nothing like Heatley.

NOT worth a 1st round pick in my opinion, and not even in the same scenario as Heatley.
Of course it is, how could it not be? Heatley while under contract demanded a trade and it was made public. His value was dramatically reduced and ended up being traded for a relatively small return.

Turris is not under contract (so less value) demanded a trade (for similar reasons) and isn't even half the player Heatley was. His value was already fairly minimal based upon his play over the last few years and now you tack on his lack of contract, attitude issue, and trade demands. He has very, very minimal value. I expect him to be traded (just like Heatley was after it was stated he would not be) and the value will not be anything spectacular.

Why would I want him? Because the Sharks can help him develop properly and are a winning team (which makes a big difference). He should come cheap, he fills a need for us, and the risk is minimal. He's still an RFA and so can be retained for a fairly longer term than many other options.

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11-02-2011, 06:03 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
And Heatley is no longer with the Sharks.

I don't think Heatley has gross character issues, but I do think he has some subtle ones that even some members of this board are unwilling to recognize. I don't think he does well incorporating the perceptions of others with his perceptions of himself. Not very good at learning.
I agree with this.

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11-02-2011, 06:04 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
I'm pretty sure injuries is the only reason for his decline in skating. He was actually an above average skater in the 09-10 season and in the first half of the 10-11 season. And I don't see how not taking the medical path is a sign of character issues. No player wants to sit out for a good portion of the year if they can help it. Even with minor injuries, he was still able to help out the team and produce at a near elite level. He can't do that on the LTIR.
I am aware of that. It is a two-edged sword. Selanne had the lockout so he could address his issues. Would Selanne have had the knee procedure if there was no lockout? In no way was Heater ever better than average as a skater that I have seen.

I don't agree on production because they were forcefeeding him and giving him opportunities that no other Sharks was getting. I think that he is good but not as good as his production would indicate. The turnover issue was there up until his last half-season with the Sharks. I was going to hold back on my criticism because I assumed the common response here. I would like to say that we should all look to Minny at the end of the year and see where he falls within that team. From the little I have seen, Seto is outplaying him by a small amount (not much because Seto's defensive conscience is less than Heater's).

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11-02-2011, 06:07 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by SJSharks2010 View Post
I agree with this.
I don't.

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Old
11-02-2011, 06:09 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Of course it is, how could it not be? Heatley while under contract demanded a trade and it was made public. His value was dramatically reduced and ended up being traded for a relatively small return.

Turris is not under contract (so less value) demanded a trade (for similar reasons) and isn't even half the player Heatley was. His value was already fairly minimal based upon his play over the last few years and now you tack on his lack of contract, attitude issue, and trade demands. He has very, very minimal value. I expect him to be traded (just like Heatley was after it was stated he would not be) and the value will not be anything spectacular.

Why would I want him? Because the Sharks can help him develop properly and are a winning team (which makes a big difference). He should come cheap, he fills a need for us, and the risk is minimal. He's still an RFA and so can be retained for a fairly longer term than many other options.
IMO, Turris wants a top 6 role and has issues with defensive responsibility. That's a tall hill to climb. I doubt that third line duty even on a winning team would be enticing. My take is that his upside is a better version of Wellwood offensively and that it will take him some time to catch Wellwood defensively. A little more of a shooter than Wellwood and less of a passer. I don't think his offense can compensate for his lack of defense. I also recall fan comments that were not positive about his boardwork. IMO, not a real fit for current Sharks needs.

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11-02-2011, 06:16 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
I don't.
I just don't think anyone who would demand a trade in Heatley's fashion, then reject one to Edmonton, could really truly but free of flaws. Almost any other player ever would have worked through it and earned more ice time. Heatley just said "**** it, get me out of here" not long after he signed the contract. I don't think it was the city, otherwise he wouldn't have signed a long-term deal there.

I'm not saying he was a bad teammate, I'm sure he was fine, but I really doubt he doesn't have his occasional issues. Nothing major, just subtle things that set him apart from his teammates.

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11-02-2011, 06:23 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
Of course it is, how could it not be? Heatley while under contract demanded a trade and it was made public. His value was dramatically reduced and ended up being traded for a relatively small return.

Turris is not under contract (so less value) demanded a trade (for similar reasons) and isn't even half the player Heatley was. His value was already fairly minimal based upon his play over the last few years and now you tack on his lack of contract, attitude issue, and trade demands. He has very, very minimal value. I expect him to be traded (just like Heatley was after it was stated he would not be) and the value will not be anything spectacular.

Why would I want him? Because the Sharks can help him develop properly and are a winning team (which makes a big difference). He should come cheap, he fills a need for us, and the risk is minimal. He's still an RFA and so can be retained for a fairly longer term than many other options.
I don't think it works like that. He's damaged goods. We might have a better development system, but it doesn't mean that Turris will develop into a star (or NHL player) here. We aren't perfect.

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11-02-2011, 08:48 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by SJSharks2010 View Post
I just don't think anyone who would demand a trade in Heatley's fashion, then reject one to Edmonton, could really truly but free of flaws. Almost any other player ever would have worked through it and earned more ice time. Heatley just said "**** it, get me out of here" not long after he signed the contract. I don't think it was the city, otherwise he wouldn't have signed a long-term deal there.

I'm not saying he was a bad teammate, I'm sure he was fine, but I really doubt he doesn't have his occasional issues. Nothing major, just subtle things that set him apart from his teammates.
God this always turns into a Heater debate.

Sure, he has his flaws, but who doesn't? And how on earth would that set him apart from his teammates?

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11-02-2011, 08:59 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by TehJuxtaposer View Post
God this always turns into a Heater debate.

Sure, he has his flaws, but who doesn't? And how on earth would that set him apart from his teammates?
You don't get my point.

Just explain to me how a great teammate can do what he did in Ottawa.

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11-02-2011, 09:27 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by SJSharks2010 View Post
You don't get my point.

Just explain to me how a great teammate can do what he did in Ottawa.
1. Plenty of players ask for trades. It just doesn't come out. If Heater's trade request wasn't leaked, then no one knows and no one is blamed.

2. When players are given NTCs/NMCs in their contracts, it is within their right to deny a trade. It shouldn't be pissed all over. If you are a 28 year old super star, do you really want to go to Edmonton, a lottery team? Dany has/had a friend or family member in the Sharks organization, which is one of the reasons he wanted to come here.

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11-03-2011, 12:14 AM
  #89
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its not Turris's fault he was drafted by an org that doesnt really know how to develope top 6 forwards
they're almost as bad as Columbus in that respect
btw, if you saw Phoenix Det round 1. Turris was possibly the only bright spot, he does have a future in this league imho.

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11-03-2011, 12:21 AM
  #90
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It is funny that the sens seem to try and portay this tightly knight organization, where every one is buddy buddy, and the hiearchy of the players isn't a problem.

But there are way to many reports that the good boys club in ottawa (alfie, neil, and another player that I can't seem to remember right now), run the ship. Alfie was the reason one of the past 3 coaches were fired. He didn't like the game plan, and went and moaned to murray.

There have been past players who left ottawa one way or another saying the locker room is a mess.

But back to heatley I still firmly believe what heatley told the media wasn't even close to the real reason he asked for a trade, there was something way more personally done/ said behind closed door to heatley.

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11-03-2011, 01:20 AM
  #91
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It is funny that the sens seem to try and portay this tightly knight organization, where every one is buddy buddy, and the hiearchy of the players isn't a problem.

But there are way to many reports that the good boys club in ottawa (alfie, neil, and another player that I can't seem to remember right now), run the ship. Alfie was the reason one of the past 3 coaches were fired. He didn't like the game plan, and went and moaned to murray.

There have been past players who left ottawa one way or another saying the locker room is a mess.

But back to heatley I still firmly believe what heatley told the media wasn't even close to the real reason he asked for a trade, there was something way more personally done/ said behind closed door to heatley.
Really? Is this just a word of mouth thing or have you read it somewhere?

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11-03-2011, 11:00 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by TehJuxtaposer View Post
Really? Is this just a word of mouth thing or have you read it somewhere?
tsn has had write ups and spoken to players that have left the organization a few times over the years, that say its the alfie and neil show.

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11-03-2011, 11:04 AM
  #93
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Chris Neil has a part in running things in Ottawa?

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11-03-2011, 11:27 AM
  #94
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Chris Neil has a part in running things in Ottawa?
I would believe it. Alfie, Phillips and Neil are the longest tenured Sens I do believe.

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11-03-2011, 01:48 PM
  #95
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tsn has had write ups and spoken to players that have left the organization a few times over the years, that say its the alfie and neil show.
Huh. Interesting.

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11-03-2011, 01:51 PM
  #96
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I would believe it. Alfie, Phillips and Neil are the longest tenured Sens I do believe.
thats the 3rd guy phillips.

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11-03-2011, 02:24 PM
  #97
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tsn has had write ups and spoken to players that have left the organization a few times over the years, that say its the alfie and neil show.
Not what I have heard. I know Chris Kelly personally, and he's never really spoken poorly about the organization. Never really mentioned anything about it being the "alfie and niel" show.

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11-06-2011, 03:02 PM
  #98
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Turris is terrible. I'd rather not trade for potential.
Did you see how he played in the PHX-DET series? He was one of the few Coyotes that showed up.

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11-06-2011, 03:32 PM
  #99
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its not Turris's fault he was drafted by an org that doesnt really know how to develope top 6 forwards
they're almost as bad as Columbus in that respect
btw, if you saw Phoenix Det round 1. Turris was possibly the only bright spot, he does have a future in this league imho.
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Originally Posted by JustAnotherHockeyFan View Post
Did you see how he played in the PHX-DET series? He was one of the few Coyotes that showed up.
He played good for a week. It could mean nothing in the long run.

It's not very hard to stand out on a bad team. And Doan was by far their best player. then Yandle (and he didn't look that good either)

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11-06-2011, 05:45 PM
  #100
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The Yotes would match a no comp offersheet and trade him later.
If the 'Yotes match, they cannot trade him for one Calendar year - which would now include the next off season.

Turris could theoretically sign a one year Offer Sheet, get a paycheck for a year, play/sulk for a year with the 'Yotes, and be in the same position next July 1 - an RFA again, but this time with arbitration rights.

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