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The All-Inclusive Trade Proposal Thread - Put it in here!

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Old
11-06-2011, 07:48 PM
  #26
TheMadHatTrick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
Patrick Stefan is gonna be a hall of famer too.
I like Suter but do you actually think he's going to be a Hall-of-Famer. Not trying to be condescending. I'm actually curious if you seriously believe this.

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11-06-2011, 11:03 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMadHatTrick View Post
I like Suter but do you actually think he's going to be a Hall-of-Famer. Not trying to be condescending. I'm actually curious if you seriously believe this.
Not trying to be lordly, but yes. We're sort of biased, though.

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11-06-2011, 11:54 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMadHatTrick View Post
I like Suter but do you actually think he's going to be a Hall-of-Famer. Not trying to be condescending. I'm actually curious if you seriously believe this.
Maybe Gary.

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11-07-2011, 12:17 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMadHatTrick View Post
I like Suter but do you actually think he's going to be a Hall-of-Famer. Not trying to be condescending. I'm actually curious if you seriously believe this.
since he isnt a big scorer I dont know if he will be recognized for a great career like Weber almost certainly will if he keeps up his current career arc. Will be interesting to see how it all pans out in the coming years.

I would think if he winds up with a couple of rings that would certainly help his chances, or if he captains Team USA to a gold medal sometime down the road

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11-07-2011, 01:11 AM
  #30
WeekendAtBernies
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Flyers and Predators

Hey guys, Philadelphia fan coming in peace.

I know there's some rumors that there might not be enough room in the budget for Weber and Suter to both be signed and for you guys to add some much needed offense... and if that's even remotely true, the Flyers would obviously be interested in Weber or Suter.

We have a good deal of young offensive talent that could catch your eye.

What would you guys think about the following proposal:

To the Preds:
Brayden Schenn
Jakub Voracek
Matt Carle
3rd round pick (upgraded conditionally to a 2nd if Carle walks as a UFA)

To the Flyers:
Shea Weber
Jerred Smithson
One of Ryan Ellis, Taylor Beck, Austin Watson

with the condition that the Flyers are allowed to negotiate a new long-term deal w/ Weber before the trade.

This deal would give the Preds some instant offense and drastically increase their chances @ a playoff birth. But more importantly, it would give the Preds two excellent offensive forwards to build around for the future, with one being a future #1C w/ some special offensive ability. He is also on his ELC for the next 3 years, so he remains very budget friendly for you guys. And obviously we send Matt Carle over to make sure you can absorb the loss of Weber on your defense.

For the Flyers, we get our much needed young D-Man to succeed Timonen. We also acquire a good faceoff man and PKer for our 4th line, and a prospect that has the potential to be a good player for us down the line to offset the loss of Voracek and Schenn.


Try to be gentle in your criticism... I tried my best

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11-07-2011, 01:31 AM
  #31
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weber for giroux...

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Old
11-07-2011, 01:33 AM
  #32
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I don't know, if we were to trade Weber I'd want to cut the extra crap and just trade him for quality assets. I wouldn't expect a team to get more then Weber if they placed a bid for him, ya know. Why would Philly need Ellis if they just traded for Weber too? I also don't see how that package would get us anymore closer to a playoff birth then if we just kept Weber and Smithson for the rest of the year.

Nice one though, I can tell you put a lot of effort into this one.

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11-07-2011, 01:35 AM
  #33
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I don't know if Poile is interested in trading Weber for potential. I sure as hell am not. Also including a UFA d-man is, how to put this gently, a wee bit moronic (for Preds point of view)

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Old
11-07-2011, 01:56 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundgarden View Post
I don't know, if we were to trade Weber I'd want to cut the extra crap and just trade him for quality assets. I wouldn't expect a team to get more then Weber if they placed a bid for him, ya know. Why would Philly need Ellis if they just traded for Weber too? I also don't see how that package would get us anymore closer to a playoff birth then if we just kept Weber and Smithson for the rest of the year.

Nice one though, I can tell you put a lot of effort into this one.
I had started w/ a Schenn + Voracek + Carle proposal straight up for Weber over on my board and it was met with a lot of criticism that we were giving up too much for Weber. That's where the prospect comes in. Ideally, it wouldn't be Ellis coming back but one of the two forward prospects I listed, but i wanted you guys to have your choice.

Smithson was added because the Flyers could really use him, while on your team, he seems slightly redundant. Correct me if I'm wrong, but most of your forwards are defensively responsible and that's part of the scheme you run. If we traded Voracek and Schenn, Talbot would need to be brought up to the 3rd line and we would need a good defensive C to play on our 4th line. Smithson fits that bill perfectly and the fact that he's a good faceoff man is a huge bonus for the Flyers b/c that's something they are really lacking right now. Simply put, I think he'd be way more valuable to us than he currently is to you.

The reason I think the proposal gets you closer to a playoff birth is because you guys are seriously in need of some offense and your defense is so deep that w/ the addition of Carle, you could easily stand the loss of Weber and not lose too much. Offensively, Jakub Voracek instantly becomes your #1 RW and with 1st line minutes and 1st powerplay time, he's easily good for 60 points this season, potentially more. With a little more luck on some shots he's been robbed on and some beautiful passes he's made this year, he could easily be on a PPG pace w/ the Flyers .

And Brayden Schenn would instantly be your #2C. A lot of people seem to think he could barely crack the lineup or something like that, but it couldn't be further from the truth. He got hurt in the preseason and the Flyers were having some cap issues, so that's what kept him down to start the season. I don't know if you caught any of the games he played in, but once he got up here, he more than held his own. He created lots of chances and looked really good out there. He's ready to go and if you give him big minutes on the 2nd line, he could easily break out this year.

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Old
11-07-2011, 02:00 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rankelson View Post
I don't know if Poile is interested in trading Weber for potential. I sure as hell am not. Also including a UFA d-man is, how to put this gently, a wee bit moronic (for Preds point of view)
I don't think Poile is trading Weber only for potential in this deal... Voracek is a proven 50 point player, and if you've watched him in Philly, you can see he has the potential for much more. With 1st line and 1st PP time, he'd easily score 60 points for you. And while Schenn is listed as a prospect, his floor is much, much higher than most. At worst, you're looking at a consistent 20 goal / 30 assist guy. And it's much, much more likely you're getting a special offensive player, something you've lacked for quite some time.

As far as including Carle, if you'd prefer we included Meszaros (26, signed through 2013-2014 @ $4M per year) that could easily be arranged.


Last edited by WeekendAtBernies: 11-07-2011 at 09:34 AM.
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Old
11-07-2011, 02:17 AM
  #36
I Will Son
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no thanks. Giroux or Jvr

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Old
11-07-2011, 03:40 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by I Will Son View Post
no thanks. Giroux or Jvr would never happen.
You're free to continue dreaming though.

Like I said, i think the value here is close. If you disagree that's fine, try to let me know what needs to be added or why you don't like it and we'll see if it can be worked out.

But please, don't attempt to take this thread into fantasy territory. JVR and Roo aren't being moved. Most people know this.

There's a very real chance that Weber is moved though, and I think the players I've outlined could realistically be traded too.

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Old
11-07-2011, 06:38 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
You're free to continue dreaming though.

Like I said, i think the value here is close. If you disagree that's fine, try to let me know what needs to be added or why you don't like it and we'll see if it can be worked out.

But please, don't attempt to take this thread into fantasy territory. JVR and Roo aren't being moved. Most people know this.

There's a very real chance that Weber is moved though, and I think the players I've outlined could realistically be traded too.
The value isnt awful, its just not the right kind of players for Nashville. We need help now, not a bunch of prospects, not to mention quality > quantity.

Most people close to the Nashville situation know that there is, in fact, money to sign all three, if they want to stay. Weber has said all the right things, so, as far as we know, he will stay a predator.

If we are trading, according to Norris voting, the 2nd best defenseman in the world, we have the right to be a little demanding. If we were asking for Ovechkin, that'd be one thing, but I don't think JVR or Giroux is too crazy. Weber is the #2 D in the world, and neither of those guys are the #2 Forward in the world.

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Old
11-07-2011, 06:54 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
You're free to continue dreaming though.

Like I said, i think the value here is close. If you disagree that's fine, try to let me know what needs to be added or why you don't like it and we'll see if it can be worked out.

But please, don't attempt to take this thread into fantasy territory. JVR and Roo aren't being moved. Most people know this.

There's a very real chance that Weber is moved though, and I think the players I've outlined could realistically be traded too.
You have the nerve to demand the right to negotiate with Weber for your "decent" package, and you're telling us to stop living in fantasy land? A signed Weber is worth Giroux. Sorry. He just is.

Any "package" starts with JVR. If that's not agreeable, then move on. We don't have to trade Weber, and 99% we won't, so stop trying to do us "favors."

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11-07-2011, 07:19 AM
  #40
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I love all the rumors about Weber or Suter. It's perpetuated by the media and some stark raving fans that these come from. We have the money to sign both. Our owners came out and said so after signing Rinne last week. I'm going to take the word of our owners as opposed to fans who come on talking about rumors.

Also, if you're going to make a proposal, make it worth our while. Schenn, while a great prospect, is still just that. Voracek is a nice player but is more potential than anything at this point. If you want one of the top 5 defensemen in the league, the prize better be worth more than potential. Nashville could use help up front and unless a top 3 forward comes back in return, everyone on these boards is going to be a little snippy in any our responses when it comes to this sort of thing. All that said, make your proposals but don't come on our boards and tell us we're living in a fantasy world when we ask for a return that's more than fair for our captain.

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11-07-2011, 07:35 AM
  #41
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Weber has already said he'll play for half the price in Vancouver right?

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11-07-2011, 07:38 AM
  #42
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Weber has already said he'll play for half the price in Vancouver right?
I liked the quote in Vancouver papers where he said,

"Yeah, I took the penalty on Kesler in OT back in the playoffs because I was trying to help them win, WWE style. I guess my unerring Blue\Green loyalty won out. Sometimes I even want to yell "LUUUU" at every routine save, because that's what we do"

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Old
11-07-2011, 08:40 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
I don't think Weber is trading Poile only for potential in this deal...
I don't think Weber is trading Poile at all, personally.

As for your proposal, no. The value isn't bad, but if we're going to trade Weber, it needs to be for an offensive star. I realize it rarely works out that way, but Poile is basically writing his own ticket out of town if he trades Weber without a signed Suter...

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11-07-2011, 08:41 AM
  #44
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First, the package, if you take away the negotiation before is...meh. Not terrible, but the UFA Carle needs to be switched out for sure (and not for a $4mil Meszaros). I'd be willing to bet many of the other 29 teams interested offer better deals though. Probably Schenn + JVR gets it done. Think about it. Ellis + Wilson + Klein for Giroux. Not great ??

The fact that you added the negotiation is what makes it laughable.

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11-07-2011, 08:47 AM
  #45
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Value isn't too terrible but not what nashville is looking for. I would give up that amount if it for Jakub and JvR and some defenseman but otherwise. Pass.

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11-07-2011, 08:48 AM
  #46
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The value is there. I think this deal would be better in the offseason though.

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11-07-2011, 08:52 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by TheMadHatTrick View Post
Well if you could trade Ryan Suter for Ryan Suter (except younger, signed to a team friendly deal for 5 years) I'm sure you would. But that was never the point was it. No one is going to trade you Ryan Suter for "Ryan Suter" in a manner of speaking. LOL

You'd be trading for potential obviously.

Also, Ryan Suter never finished 4th in Norris Trophy voting. Show me the link from a reputable source that says otherwise, cause I haven't seen this even suggested anywhere other than this board.
he finished 15th in norris votong last year. I think you, or someone else s confusing pekka finishing 4th in the Hart with him.

also, how is the hell did ryan getzlaf get a lady bing vote? is that a joke?

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Old
11-07-2011, 09:33 AM
  #48
WeekendAtBernies
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The value isnt awful, its just not the right kind of players for Nashville. We need help now, not a bunch of prospects, not to mention quality > quantity.

Most people close to the Nashville situation know that there is, in fact, money to sign all three, if they want to stay. Weber has said all the right things, so, as far as we know, he will stay a predator.

If we are trading, according to Norris voting, the 2nd best defenseman in the world, we have the right to be a little demanding. If we were asking for Ovechkin, that'd be one thing, but I don't think JVR or Giroux is too crazy. Weber is the #2 D in the world, and neither of those guys are the #2 Forward in the world.
You can definitely be a little demanding.

But asking JVR or Giroux for a guy who won't likely be traded unless he tells NSH he doesn't want to re-sign there is a bit much IMO. I was trying to offer a realistic package of players that could actually be dealt. The thing is, in the real NHL, you never see the kind of deals you are talking about... the price for a star is never an established player with huge star potential (JVR) + more. Mike Richards on a team-friendly deal that extends for the next 10 years netted Schenn, Simmonds, and a 3rd. I offered Schenn, Voracek, Carle, + pick for Weber who is currently only guaranteed for 1 more year and if locked up would take a large chunk of money. Same headliner, but significantly better secondary pieces of the puzzle. Based on the going rate of players on the actual trade market, I'd say it's decent value. Maybe you want a higher premium / overpayment from Philly, but I don't see that happening from our end. Maybe that means we're not good trade partners. I dunno.

And as far as Giroux goes, that's just never happening... ever. Look @ his cap hit and you'll see why. He just might be the most valuable player in the NHL given his current contract. If not, he is definitely top-5.

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Old
11-07-2011, 09:38 AM
  #49
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You can definitely be a little demanding.

But asking JVR or Giroux for a guy who won't likely be traded unless he tells NSH he doesn't want to re-sign there is a bit much IMO. I was trying to offer a realistic package of players that could actually be dealt. The thing is, in the real NHL, you never see the kind of deals you are talking about... the price for a star is never an established player with huge star potential (JVR) + more. Mike Richards on a team-friendly deal that extends for the next 10 years netted Schenn, Simmonds, and a 3rd. I offered Schenn, Voracek, Carle, + pick for Weber who is currently only guaranteed for 1 more year and if locked up would take a large chunk of money. Same headliner, but significantly better secondary pieces of the puzzle. Based on the going rate of players on the actual trade market, I'd say it's decent value. Maybe you want a higher premium / overpayment from Philly, but I don't see that happening from our end. Maybe that means we're not good trade partners. I dunno.

And as far as Giroux goes, that's just never happening... ever. Look @ his cap hit and you'll see why. He just might be the most valuable player in the NHL given his current contract. If not, he is definitely top-5.
But you are asking for one of the games best defensemen that happens to be 25 years old....

Brett Burns got a great return and he's not half the player Weber is and is around the same age.

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Old
11-07-2011, 09:40 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
You can definitely be a little demanding.

But asking JVR or Giroux for a guy who won't likely be traded unless he tells NSH he doesn't want to re-sign there is a bit much IMO. I was trying to offer a realistic package of players that could actually be dealt. The thing is, in the real NHL, you never see the kind of deals you are talking about... the price for a star is never an established player with huge star potential (JVR) + more. Mike Richards on a team-friendly deal that extends for the next 10 years netted Schenn, Simmonds, and a 3rd. I offered Schenn, Voracek, Carle, + pick for Weber who is currently only guaranteed for 1 more year and if locked up would take a large chunk of money. Same headliner, but significantly better secondary pieces of the puzzle. Based on the going rate of players on the actual trade market, I'd say it's decent value. Maybe you want a higher premium / overpayment from Philly, but I don't see that happening from our end. Maybe that means we're not good trade partners. I dunno.

And as far as Giroux goes, that's just never happening... ever. Look @ his cap hit and you'll see why. He just might be the most valuable player in the NHL given his current contract. If not, he is definitely top-5.
We are good trade partiners but the value in which you seek to claim weber (and our other top prospects) exceeds what you have offered us in return. In reality, it starts with JVR or Giroux or you will have to give us Jakub and a lot more without us giving up any prospects.

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