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Bruce Garrioch: "Many believe Gauthier will be the next out the door"

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Old
11-04-2011, 08:23 PM
  #226
HCH
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I can almost understand some posters defending Gainey's decisions at the time he made them. But with the benefit of hindsight those that still insist that the team made the right move by losing Koivu then trading McDonagh, Higgins and Valentenko to add Gomez baffles me.

Clearly, those two decisions did not work out to our benefit. At the very least, the depth in the organization was compromised. At the worst, we may have given up a heart and soul player as well as one of the best defense prospects we had in years.

Gainey may have felt he had to take drastic measures and shake the team up but it backfired and Gauthier has been left to clean up. Even Gainey admitted he left Gauthier with some problems and last year Gainey had a heart to heart talk with Gomez about bringing up the level of his play.

Of course, going to the conference finals is the argument that will always be thrown back but anyone who isn't in a state of self denial will say that it had a lot more to do with Halak (and some good luck) than the superior team that Gainey assembled.

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11-04-2011, 10:47 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
Fair enough. I can see the comparison in how he handled Dallas' problems and Montreal's.

I don't have a problem with any of the signings either. My only real problem with the Gomez trade was the inclusion of McDonagh. I don't mind acquiring Gomez in general, though.

Either way, he did fix things with money, and I'm not a big believer in that. I think he probably did a better job with buying a team than most, though.
Having Modano and Hatcher helped a lot too.

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Old
11-04-2011, 11:14 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
I think he probably did a better job with buying a team than most, though.
True enough, you old boot.

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Old
11-04-2011, 11:25 PM
  #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HCH View Post
I can almost understand some posters defending Gainey's decisions at the time he made them. But with the benefit of hindsight those that still insist that the team made the right move by losing Koivu then trading McDonagh, Higgins and Valentenko to add Gomez baffles me.
I agree. I mean Gainey made a very risky decision that didn't pan out. It happens... Gomez could have returned to form and pull a Brad Richards, becoming a 60 to 80 pt scorer with McDonagh being just an average prospect.

Sadly Gomez turned out even worse than expected by the most pessimistic and McDonagh turns out to be just as good or better than most would have thought.

With hindsight this move is indefensible, definitely. If Gainey knew I'm 100% sure he'd do something else.

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Old
11-05-2011, 12:26 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
I agree. I mean Gainey made a very risky decision that didn't pan out. It happens... Gomez could have returned to form and pull a Brad Richards, becoming a 60 to 80 pt scorer with McDonagh being just an average prospect.

Sadly Gomez turned out even worse than expected by the most pessimistic and McDonagh turns out to be just as good or better than most would have thought.

With hindsight this move is indefensible, definitely. If Gainey knew I'm 100% sure he'd do something else.
Look at that Iginla/Nieuwendyk swap.

It took a coupla years, am I not right ?














Aw, well. Who knows ?!

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Old
11-06-2011, 07:07 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by HCH View Post
I can almost understand some posters defending Gainey's decisions at the time he made them. But with the benefit of hindsight those that still insist that the team made the right move by losing Koivu then trading McDonagh, Higgins and Valentenko to add Gomez baffles me.

Clearly, those two decisions did not work out to our benefit. At the very least, the depth in the organization was compromised. At the worst, we may have given up a heart and soul player as well as one of the best defense prospects we had in years.

Gainey may have felt he had to take drastic measures and shake the team up but it backfired and Gauthier has been left to clean up. Even Gainey admitted he left Gauthier with some problems and last year Gainey had a heart to heart talk with Gomez about bringing up the level of his play.

Of course, going to the conference finals is the argument that will always be thrown back but anyone who isn't in a state of self denial will say that it had a lot more to do with Halak (and some good luck) than the superior team that Gainey assembled.
Agreed, to a degree, I thought the move was senseless at the time and wouldn't accept any justification for that mess of a deal, but some posters are more concerned about being proven right than they are with objective analysis, so don't expect them to come around and admit this trade was horrendous.

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Old
11-07-2011, 01:50 AM
  #232
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Gauthier should be fired alone, for not even trying for Jagr.
http://lejournaldemontreal.canoe.ca/...20-021713.html


Gomez had a 70 pt season with Jagr on his line.
Plek always looked good with him in the world tourney.

So it was just one of those things that seemed like a no brainer.
A double bang for your buck.

Jagr with Gomez(not Darche)
Plek with Jagr

Jagr on first line PP not Darche.


You go out and deal for LANG, yet when a 1600 pts guy show interst in coming to Mtl, you pass.....

Jagr 15 pts in 14 games ,6 pts on the power play .
Habs so stacked they couldn't find a spot on the roster for him ....

We already had a 4th liner playing on the first line .

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Old
11-07-2011, 02:04 AM
  #233
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Bruce got the odds on his side.Gauthier the 2 times prior to coming to Montreal.


GM of Sens 95-98
GM of Ducks 98 to 2002


If the Habs miss the playoffs this year, or go out rd 1,Pierre is gone.
I even say another slump in the next 15/ 20 games, i think you see him get canned or "step aside"
Let's be honest , his times as GM was always short, and nothing more than a par at best GM.

That is not meant as disrespect toward him, just his exp has been building expansion teams.Until the Habs gets a "Thoroughbred" GM, will spin out our wheels forever.(18 yrs proves that)

I want to stop being the team that "we was one goal away from beating the eventual cup champs".....enough of that.The owner needs to want to take the next step in getting the team to a cup threat,and that means upgrading managment and coach.


Last edited by Habaneros: 11-07-2011 at 02:34 AM.
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Old
11-07-2011, 02:07 AM
  #234
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definitely dropped the ball by not even pursuing Jagr...

- great chemistry/friendship already established with Pleks
- would have been cheaper & less commitment than Cole
- had ok season with Gomez (although i seem to recall seeing something indicating that they didn't get along great?)


that said, don't know that Jagr/JM would have worked out.


but i do recall how several posters were quite confident that Jagr wouldn't be effective in the NHL at his age and being gone 2 years... don't know how they came to that conclusion, but boy does he ever look good for Philly these days.

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Old
11-07-2011, 02:30 AM
  #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
definitely dropped the ball by not even pursuing Jagr...

- great chemistry/friendship already established with Pleks
- would have been cheaper & less commitment than Cole
- had ok season with Gomez (although i seem to recall seeing something indicating that they didn't get along great?)


that said, don't know that Jagr/JM would have worked out.


but i do recall how several posters were quite confident that Jagr wouldn't be effective in the NHL at his age and being gone 2 years... don't know how they came to that conclusion, but boy does he ever look good for Philly these days.

LOL JM would have had Darche on the 1st line pp and Jagr on the bench, i believe that.

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Old
11-07-2011, 04:09 AM
  #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
Gauthier should be fired alone, for not even trying for Jagr.
http://lejournaldemontreal.canoe.ca/...20-021713.html


Gomez had a 70 pt season with Jagr on his line.
Plek always looked good with him in the world tourney.

So it was just one of those things that seemed like a no brainer.
A double bang for your buck.

Jagr with Gomez(not Darche)
Plek with Jagr

Jagr on first line PP not Darche.


You go out and deal for LANG, yet when a 1600 pts guy show interst in coming to Mtl, you pass.....

Jagr 15 pts in 14 games ,6 pts on the power play .
Habs so stacked they couldn't find a spot on the roster for him ....

We already had a 4th liner playing on the first line .
Actually, Gauthier was the first to contact Jagr agent (svoboda)..
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/sports/hoc...u-canadien.php

«Montréal, c'est la raison de mon retour, a raconté Jagr après l'entraînement des Flyers. Mon agent s'est mis à discuter d'un contrat avec le Canadien, et ça m'a fait penser à un retour dans la Ligue nationale. Mais ce sont les Flyers qui m'ont démontré le plus d'intérêt, et c'est pourquoi je les ai choisis.»

'Montreal is the reason of my return says Jagr(...)My agent started discussing contract with the Canadiens, and it made me think about returning to the NHL. But the Flyers showed more interest, and thats why I chose them.''

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Old
11-07-2011, 02:02 PM
  #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
definitely dropped the ball by not even pursuing Jagr...

- great chemistry/friendship already established with Pleks
- would have been cheaper & less commitment than Cole
- had ok season with Gomez (although i seem to recall seeing something indicating that they didn't get along great?)


that said, don't know that Jagr/JM would have worked out.


but i do recall how several posters were quite confident that Jagr wouldn't be effective in the NHL at his age and being gone 2 years... don't know how they came to that conclusion, but boy does he ever look good for Philly these days.
i thought he would do ok, but not that good...

jagr probably would not have been the best fit with JM and the team's emphasis on speed (although **** me i wished we would have tried), but lets be honest, he comes here, his production drops by more than half and everybody calls him a bum

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11-07-2011, 02:12 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by bjac View Post
There are alot of reading comprehension problems in this thread...
There are a lot of people writing books in this thread. Lack of comprehension isn't the issue lack of reading period is.

People aren't going to sift through 100,000 words per point, this coming from neofury of all people. But anyways if comprehension were the issue maybe it's the fact that a lot of people aren't really being clear and are making convoluted posts in order to make a point. You can't really blame peoples "comprehension" when folks do that.

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11-07-2011, 02:16 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by Crystal Met View Post
Actually, Gauthier was the first to contact Jagr agent (svoboda)..
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/sports/hoc...u-canadien.php

«Montréal, c'est la raison de mon retour, a raconté Jagr après l'entraînement des Flyers. Mon agent s'est mis à discuter d'un contrat avec le Canadien, et ça m'a fait penser à un retour dans la Ligue nationale. Mais ce sont les Flyers qui m'ont démontré le plus d'intérêt, et c'est pourquoi je les ai choisis.»

'Montreal is the reason of my return says Jagr(...)My agent started discussing contract with the Canadiens, and it made me think about returning to the NHL. But the Flyers showed more interest, and thats why I chose them.''
And by interest, Jagr obviously means money.

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11-07-2011, 02:21 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by HCH View Post
I can almost understand some posters defending Gainey's decisions at the time he made them. But with the benefit of hindsight those that still insist that the team made the right move by losing Koivu then trading McDonagh, Higgins and Valentenko to add Gomez baffles me.

Clearly, those two decisions did not work out to our benefit. At the very least, the depth in the organization was compromised. At the worst, we may have given up a heart and soul player as well as one of the best defense prospects we had in years.

Gainey may have felt he had to take drastic measures and shake the team up but it backfired and Gauthier has been left to clean up. Even Gainey admitted he left Gauthier with some problems and last year Gainey had a heart to heart talk with Gomez about bringing up the level of his play.

Of course, going to the conference finals is the argument that will always be thrown back but anyone who isn't in a state of self denial will say that it had a lot more to do with Halak (and some good luck) than the superior team that Gainey assembled.
im surprised Gainey is still employed by The Canadiens!

that trade might go down as one of the worst trades in HAB history- and Gainey ran the show- nobody else to blame aside from gauthier
who was a big part of the decision!

You didnt have to be a mensa member to see how terrible that trade was the minute it was announced!!
I remember i said to my son when i heard the deal- "Oh my God he traded for Gomez"-

Starting s to show already and will show more as times flies- That Bob Gainey was one of the worst GMs in HAB history!!

now if this was habfans- id be banned for a month for this post!! LOL

a poster on HABFANS posts Gomez will get 65 points this season
i replied -you forgot to put the decimal point between the 6 and 5 !
I got 4 months suspension for that!~ LOL

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Old
11-07-2011, 02:53 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
i thought he would do ok, but not that good...

jagr probably would not have been the best fit with JM and the team's emphasis on speed (although **** me i wished we would have tried), but lets be honest, he comes here, his production drops by more than half and everybody calls him a bum
right, and frankly I'd be surprised if he can keep up this torrid pace for 82 games...

but Laviolette is being smart about his minutes, of the top 30 scorers in this young season, Jagr(13th currently) is playing the fewest min/game, and of his 16.43 min/game, 4:13 are PP minutes.

and really, even if he were to drop his production rate by half (which i think is unlikely, but who knows), he'll still finish the year with ~50pts, that's pretty damn solid for an <4M vet on a 1 year deal.

I wonder, who would win in a foot race between Jagr/Darche

Quote:
Originally Posted by neofury View Post
There are a lot of people writing books in this thread. Lack of comprehension isn't the issue lack of reading period is.

People aren't going to sift through 100,000 words per point, this coming from neofury of all people. But anyways if comprehension were the issue maybe it's the fact that a lot of people aren't really being clear and are making convoluted posts in order to make a point. You can't really blame peoples "comprehension" when folks do that.
yeah, but often times people will quote a post, and then go on some rant that has absolutely no relevance to what the quoted post was about...

that's either poor reading comprehension, or flat out stupidity


Last edited by Habsfan18: 11-07-2011 at 03:06 PM. Reason: merge
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Old
11-07-2011, 03:03 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
And by interest, Jagr obviously means money.
Yes, and we had plenty.

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Old
11-07-2011, 03:07 PM
  #243
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There are a lot of people writing books in this thread.
I`m not referring to anyone in specific, but I kind of agree... and it`s not just in this thread. I for one have little time nor interest to invest in elaborated posts

I know if someone replies to my post with a novel I`ll surely read it, but when it`s back and forth exchanges not involving me, I don`t have the motivation.

Less is more folks !

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Old
11-07-2011, 04:50 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
Yes, and we had plenty.
this, and i'm curious to know how people think a team would otherwise "express interest" in a free agent player?

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11-07-2011, 04:51 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post

Less is more folks !
that would explain the love for Gomez around here

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11-07-2011, 05:20 PM
  #246
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
Yes, and we had plenty.
Indeed, even with Cole signed.

I think our team would have been much better today with Jagr, Cole and Hammer instead of Gill and Campoli.
We could have made it happen.

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