You just need to take a deep breath bro. Steve Ott has cracked 20 goals ONE TIME in his career. CAL >>>>NEVER.
Dustin Brown puts both those guys to shame. Points and Hits wise. You guys expect way too much out of Brown.
He is not Malkin or Crosby.
This.
Many posts on Brown in this thread, and this season in general, are garbage. The guy is on pace for almost 60 points yet again, and people are saying he's the worst part of our top 6, should be a 3rd line player, we should dress Lewis in his place, etc.
I swear some of you guys wouldn't know a hockey puck from a twinkie. Brown has put up 50+ points four straight years and looks like he'll do it again this year, assuming he stays healthy. He is also consistent in his effort, unlike some others on this team.
But yeah, e should trade him, or stick him on the thid line. parse is getting some praise lately after being the teams whipping boy for about 2 straight years. Why? For a whopping two goals in seven games? Yeah, he'll backbone us to a cup with those numbers, but screw Brown, that 3rd line hack masquarading as a top two liner.
And Lewis! I mean, how can he and his four CAREER goals be squandered on the fourth line? Clearly he should replace Brown on the second line because he's shown how, given the chance, he can score 20+ goals a season, about 60 points, lead the league in hits and be responsible in all ends of the ice. You know, just like that Dustin brown kid.
There are other people to point the finger at here, the biggest being TM right now. DL went out and gave him a lot of talent to use and TM continues to play the same overall style, refusing to allow his skill players to use those skills and make things happen. Right now TM has the imagination of an earthworm.
And if you want offense, regardless of the system them play in, Brad Richardson, Ethan Moreau, Jarrett Stoll, Dustin Penner, Kyle Clifford, and Trevor Lewis have to be able to score more. Those six players have combined for two goals. TWO goals. And only Lewis and Penner haven't played all 13 games this year. Those six players have two goals and five points combined so far. But yeah, Dustin Brown and his three goals and nine points so far pales in comparision.
There are plenty of players and coaches to point the finger at this season. Brown is no where near the top of that list.
I'm curious, for all you "bottom line" people, do you even watch the games? I mean it's obvious the content of the game is meaningless to you.
I'm definitely a bottom line person, and yes, I watch the games. The content and quality of the effort certainly isn't meaningless, but then again it isn't figure skating -the playoff slots aren't given out based on quality of effort.
Here's my bottom line: it's early, but they have played 1/6 of this season's games already. Since the trade deadline, they have brought in 3 players that were supposed to dramatically upgrade the offense - and look at the results so far
For the 1st 13 games of each season:
2009/10 8-4-1 17 points 45 Goals For 40 Goals Against
20010/11 10-3-0 20 points 39 Goals For 25 Goals Against
20011/12 6-4-3 15 points 28 Goals For 28 Goals Against
That's a significant drop in offense - particularly when the acquisitions were made to improve the offense - that can't be ignored or just blamed on cirumstances beyond their control.
I don't think that playing the "young team" card works anymore either. The Kings have the 14th youngest roster in the league - right in the middle. The forwards are 22nd youngest, defenders are 10th youngest, and the goalies are the youngest pair in the league - but they aren't the problem. There are 6 players on the roster with less than 100 NHL games (Parse, Westgarth, Drewiske, Lewis, Martinez, and Clifford), but IMO most of those weren't really counted on for much anyway (with the possible exception of Martinez). The 15 other skater on the roster have played an average of just over 500 NHL games each with Doughty and Johnson being the only 2 under 300 - and they are just barely under (247 & 295)
Really Brown hate again? You guys are amazing. This board is getting predictable and worse than a preschool
with all of the whining. I'm done with it and I'm not the only long time poster tired of it.
I'm getting ready to follow you out of the classroom/daycare. Sometimes I think they need an IQ requirement on these boards. Not all players are Gretzky/Orr/Hasek, but apparently all posters are Toe Blake/Scotty Bowman/Sam Pollack
I'm getting ready to follow you out of the classroom/daycare. Sometimes I think they need an IQ requirement on these boards. Not all players are Gretzky/Orr/Hasek, but apparently all posters are Toe Blake/Scotty Bowman/Sam Pollack
Well, here's what I realized late last night about our whining posters, and that is that they actually could be just 8 or 9 yrs old. Unless i'm missing something, I don't think HF has minimum age requirement, so, if a 8 yr old kid's a kings fan, he could very well be posting on our site and having a discussion with us.
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"In a year that has been so improbable, the impossible has happened." - Vin Scully being clairvoyant in 1988.
The Los Angeles Kings - 2012 Stanley Cup Champions
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I didnt have time to sit here and read the postgame thread. I just watched the game on my dvr, and now ive got to do some studying. And it seemed to me that he did better than that last year. But it doesnt change the fact that brown is not a good shootout option as well.
"I don't have time to research what I'm saying, just time to blurt out random ****, whether it's true or not."
Whether or not you had time to read it, it's been said in this thread Brown is firing at a career SO rate of 33% while JMFJ was 1/7 last year. how is that a better option?
At least research something before coming in here and sounding like a jackass.
I'm definitely a bottom line person, and yes, I watch the games. The content and quality of the effort certainly isn't meaningless, but then again it isn't figure skating -the playoff slots aren't given out based on quality of effort.
Here's my bottom line: it's early, but they have played 1/6 of this season's games already. Since the trade deadline, they have brought in 3 players that were supposed to dramatically upgrade the offense - and look at the results so far
For the 1st 13 games of each season:
2009/10 8-4-1 17 points 45 Goals For 40 Goals Against
20010/11 10-3-0 20 points 39 Goals For 25 Goals Against
20011/12 6-4-3 15 points 28 Goals For 28 Goals Against
That's a significant drop in offense - particularly when the acquisitions were made to improve the offense - that can't be ignored or just blamed on cirumstances beyond their control.
I don't think that playing the "young team" card works anymore either. The Kings have the 14th youngest roster in the league - right in the middle. The forwards are 22nd youngest, defenders are 10th youngest, and the goalies are the youngest pair in the league - but they aren't the problem. There are 6 players on the roster with less than 100 NHL games (Parse, Westgarth, Drewiske, Lewis, Martinez, and Clifford), but IMO most of those weren't really counted on for much anyway (with the possible exception of Martinez). The 15 other skater on the roster have played an average of just over 500 NHL games each with Doughty and Johnson being the only 2 under 300 - and they are just barely under (247 & 295)
Something has to change - and fast
don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying statistics doesn't matter. But too many people here are whining about the game when the Kings played pretty decently offensively. They had an good net presence, good chances, hit the posts, and what not. This was night and day from the 2 goal average efforts we have been seeing previously. To just "bottom line" this game is an act of ignorance and offers about as much depth as a coat of paint.
Now I agree with the person long time ago (I think it was you) who said that the offense should expect to generate 3 goals to win a game. And I am starting to side with people in thinking TM is absolutley incapable of generating sufficient offense on this team. But to just "bottom line" the Pens game is just an inaccurate tell of how it went. If TM could actually get this team to play like they did yesterday consistently, I actually feel our team could be one of the better offensive teams in the league.
Call me crazy but I thought TM outcoached Bylsma after that weak first period.
The Pens were stretching the rink and the Kings were able to cut off most of their breakouts in the second and third periods. I think there was a stretch of about 10 minutes where the Pens had no sustained attack and we almost pulled even on shots. Our top line was downright dominant for most of the game, the Pens had no answer for Kopi.
Any time a goal gets disallowed there seems to be a momentum swing. The Kings were upset about the call and the Pens got a spark because they were still in the game. It was a little combined mental lapse that led to the goal.
Jonathan Quick is the reason we got a point tonight. His performance in the first period was downright outstanding and he was really sharp the entire night. I can only remember one or two soft rebounds and his glove hand was particularly on point.
I agree Josh. The Kings frustrated Malkin at every turn and Kopitar was getting loose all night in the middle of the ice.
Staal made a very good pass on the tying goal. Just a good play by a good player.
Our defensemen are going to have to bring more to the table offensively for this team to step it up a notch.
I am surprised to read allot of what has been posted here. DBrown is *EXACTLY* the same player that he always has been and is a highly coveted RW around the league. Yes, he takes awhile to get his hands and brain on the same page but he is allot better than most of his rivals and to say otherwise is just weird to me.
Does he seem dispassionate at times? I guess you could say that but then maybe that is just the way he keeps his head in the game, who knows?
Are we struggling a bit? No.
No we aren't.
We are a team that is taking time to actually gel and we aren't 20 games into the season yet. Go ahead and panic all you like but we have the talent and grit to be one of the top 8 teams in the league and should be there pretty quickly.
I hated giving up the late goal last game and think that great teams learn how to stop that from happening but they learn how to do so by facing those situations and failing from time to time until players like MR rub off on their team mates and the gut check determination starts burning inside the hearts of each of the guys on the team.
We aren't perfect yet but we are on track and this game was a pretty good effort against a very good team. Would I except this sort of an effort and result late in the season? No. But for now it was alright.
In what world are Crosby, Kennedy, and Michalek equal to that group?
If I'm not mistaken there were 5 Penguins out, not three. But either way, we'll use your 3 players.
Crosby, Kennedy and Michalek would be like the Kings being without Kopitar, Greene and Stoll. Murray has had a nearly perfectly healthy line up, minus five games without Drew, and the team has sputtered, to be modest. How do you think he'd do with three regulars out? Bylsma can get a SO win out of his team, Murray wouldn't. That's my point.
Someone else put it properly earlier this thread. TM is the guy to get a young team to play good, but he's not the guy to get that team to a cup. That's someone elses job. TM should have been hired instead of Crawford, really. he's now gotten this team to the highest I think he can get it and we need to go out and find someone who can open things up a little and use the teams talents to their full potential. The days of playing a low risk, defensive style is over, given the talent we have.
I bet Penner would have a lot more than one assist under another coach. His effort has been largely very good. TM is like an offensive vampire, he just sucks the life out of talented players.
If I'm not mistaken there were 5 Penguins out, not three. But either way, we'll use your 3 players.
Crosby, Kennedy and Michalek would be like the Kings being without Kopitar, Greene and Stoll. Murray has had a nearly perfectly healthy line up, minus five games without Drew, and the team has sputtered, to be modest. How do you think he'd do with three regulars out? Bylsma can get a SO win out of his team, Murray wouldn't. That's my point.
Someone else put it properly earlier this thread. TM is the guy to get a young team to play good, but he's not the guy to get that team to a cup. That's someone elses job. TM should have been hired instead of Crawford, really. he's now gotten this team to the highest I think he can get it and we need to go out and find someone who can open things up a little and use the teams talents to their full potential. The days of playing a low risk, defensive style is over, given the talent we have.
I bet Penner would have a lot more than one assist under another coach. His effort has been largely very good. TM is like an offensive vampire, he just sucks the life out of talented players.
Like you said, the Kings have faced very little adversity so far this year in regards to injuries. But the little that they have faced has shown that this team has some good character, or are you forgetting that when our top defenseman was out of the lineup we posted a 4-1 record including three straight shutouts?
This team also played pretty well in the playoffs last year without Kopitar, to the tune of 3.16 goals per postseason game. The Bruins had 3.13 during their cup run. The Canucks had 2.18. Sample sizes, I know, but this offense is capable of clicking, and that was without Mike Richards and Simon Gagne.
Do you know why the Penguins are still winning even though they're missing players to injury? It's because they face off against teams who think, "Hey, these guys have a ton of players out," and they OUTWORK them. As great of a coach as Dan Bylsma is, he hung up the skates a long time ago.
We've earned two points in our last four games. Pittsburgh had a stretch in mid-October where they scored five goals in three games and went 0-2-1. Then they won five straight. To say that the Kings have "sputtered" is totally ridiculous when they're sitting in a playoff spot in November. It's a long season. Streaks happen to everyone. Losses will happen, too.
I've heard the "TM is the guy but not the guy" argument a million times and it's still not convincing. It's grass is greener thinking. You're not going to out-skill any team in a league with the parity of the NHL on a consistent basis, especially with a team built from the back end out with only one elite offensive talent up front. The Pens have Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin and they win because they work hard night in and night out. Hockey is not as complicated as you're making it seem.
I coulda sworn he had that 10 game or so streak around December..
You're thinking of goals. He was taking some flak from some people last year because he had a long stretch with no goals, although I don't remember the numbers off of the top of my head, but he was still getting a good chunk of assists during that time.
Like you said, the Kings have faced very little adversity so far this year in regards to injuries. But the little that they have faced has shown that this team has some good character, or are you forgetting that when our top defenseman was out of the lineup we posted a 4-1 record including three straight shutouts?
I think the three shutouts is the more important number in there, not the 4-1 record. If Quick didn't play like he did in that stretch, we wouldn't have been 4-1. It's debateable if we would have been .500.
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This team also played pretty well in the playoffs last year without Kopitar, to the tune of 3.16 goals per postseason game. The Bruins had 3.13 during their cup run. The Canucks had 2.18. Sample sizes, I know, but this offense is capable of clicking, and that was without Mike Richards and Simon Gagne.
Sorry, don't buy this. Yes, we scored well in the playoffs, but Neimi was absolutely brutal in that series. His save percentage was .855 entering game six (not sure where it finished after game 6, but doubt it went up much). If we would have faced a legit goalie that series, you think we'd score at that clip? The offense in the playoffs was to short of a sample size and greatly altered by a goalie who was fighting the puck.
You site the 6 playoff games, but what about the 13 games we've played this season? We're second last in the elague in scoring, and that was with Richards, Gagne (mostly) and Kopitar. Why is your six playoff games worth acknowledging here, but not the regular season we are playing now?
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Do you know why the Penguins are still winning even though they're missing players to injury? It's because they face off against teams who think, "Hey, these guys have a ton of players out," and they OUTWORK them.
Agreed. We aren't IMO.
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As great of a coach as Dan Bylsma is, he hung up the skates a long time ago.
Murray hung his up when when Bylsma was 12 years old. What's your point?
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We've earned two points in our last four games. Pittsburgh had a stretch in mid-October where they scored five goals in three games and went 0-2-1. Then they won five straight.
If the Kings only had a three game stretch like this so far, fine. But this offensive shutdown has been going on also since game one. Other than the St. Louis game, have we scored more than three goals in a game this season? We may have, I don't recall, but it's not like we are considered a threat to break out at any point. Three games isn't a big deal, but if the Penguins were sitting second last in the league in goals right now, Crosby or not, it would be cause for concern for them. It shold be for any team.
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To say that the Kings have "sputtered" is totally ridiculous when they're sitting in a playoff spot in November. It's a long season. Streaks happen to everyone. Losses will happen, too.
Points in November matter just as much as points in February and March. I can guarantee TM isn't sitting there saying it's ok, streaks happen. Points are points, regardless of when you earn them.
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I've heard the "TM is the guy but not the guy" argument a million times and it's still not convincing. It's grass is greener thinking. You're not going to out-skill any team in a league with the parity of the NHL on a consistent basis, especially with a team built from the back end out with only one elite offensive talent up front. The Pens have Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin and they win because they work hard night in and night out. Hockey is not as complicated as you're making it seem.
No one is saying we will outskill anyone. We are saying we'd like to see the team play up to their skill level. Right now we have an offense that on paper is definately upper-half in the league, and yet we rank nearly last in offense. We shouldn't have to go into a game wondering if we will score more than two goals a game, yet the fans clearly are wondering that. And they have good reason considering the numbers the team has put up so far this season. If you take away the Blues game, we've scored 23 goals in 12 games.
Btw, when the Penguins went on a tear over the last 30 or so games last season, they did so without Malkin or Crosby. Yet they got it done, and did so without their two top players.
Hockey isn't complicated, I agree. I'm also not asking for it to be complicated and I have no idea how in the world you managed to derive that from my post. The simplest fact of hockey though is that if you want to win games, you have to outscore your opponent. At the pace we are scoring, I don't see how we are going to do that on a regular basis and I don't see how that can't be of concern right now.
This team also played pretty well in the playoffs last year without Kopitar, to the tune of 3.16 goals per postseason game. The Bruins had 3.13 during their cup run. The Canucks had 2.18. Sample sizes, I know, but this offense is capable of clicking, and that was without Mike Richards and Simon Gagne.
Every team in the league is playing "pretty well", but some of them are winning and others are not. 3.16 per game you say. And 3.33 against. Those -0.17 difference is what shows that Kings were not good enough. As for Bruins, they had 3.24 goals for and 2.12 goals against in the playoffs. Kopitar's injury costed the team on the defensive end and that was pretty obvious to most people.
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Do you know why the Penguins are still winning even though they're missing players to injury? It's because they face off against teams who think, "Hey, these guys have a ton of players out," and they OUTWORK them. As great of a coach as Dan Bylsma is, he hung up the skates a long time ago.
No, I don't agree, at least not with the first part. Yeah, they work extremely hard, but the other teams are not underrating them.
I think the three shutouts is the more important number in there, not the 4-1 record. If Quick didn't play like he did in that stretch, we wouldn't have been 4-1. It's debateable if we would have been .500.
But he did, and we've seen this year so far and last year that he's capable of playing at an elite level for consistent stretches. Why is goal scoring so important but our goaltending counts for nothing? Columbus has more goals than us this season, but I don't think you'd find one person who cares about their scoring because their situation in nets is terrible. I think we're spoiled by this tandem we have, Bernier's poor play this year aside. Before Quick, goaltending was the major organization issue. Now it's goal scoring. It's always something. I'm pretty content with this team, it's hard to get upset about much when I compare it to the versions I grew up with.
It's just, it's easy to find something to get upset about if you're looking for it. First it was the powerplay, which is now clicking at 20% (top 10 in the league), and you notice, people are quiet about it. It hasn't come up in a while. Neither has goaltending, for years now really, save for Quick's weak games. More short term: Greene's play is better. Kopitar's scoring. As of last game, the team is hitting again. If this team gets a bounce or two and gets a few goals in the net, they're going to go on a tear. There's really not much wrong right now.
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Sorry, don't buy this. Yes, we scored well in the playoffs, but Neimi was absolutely brutal in that series. His save percentage was .855 entering game six (not sure where it finished after game 6, but doubt it went up much). If we would have faced a legit goalie that series, you think we'd score at that clip? The offense in the playoffs was to short of a sample size and greatly altered by a goalie who was fighting the puck.
You site the 6 playoff games, but what about the 13 games we've played this season? We're second last in the elague in scoring, and that was with Richards, Gagne (mostly) and Kopitar. Why is your six playoff games worth acknowledging here, but not the regular season we are playing now?
Both stretches are worth acknowledging, I'm just pointing out that it's easy to forget that this team is capable of scoring goals inside this system, weak opposing goalie or not.
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Murray hung his up when when Bylsma was 12 years old. What's your point?
Dan Bylsma never beats anybody. His players do. Systems in hockey are really less important than they're made out to be. It's a free-flowing game with constant adjustment required by the players. For that reason, the only consistencies need be awareness and work ethic. Everything else comes from that.
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If the Kings only had a three game stretch like this so far, fine. But this offensive shutdown has been going on also since game one. Other than the St. Louis game, have we scored more than three goals in a game this season? We may have, I don't recall, but it's not like we are considered a threat to break out at any point. Three games isn't a big deal, but if the Penguins were sitting second last in the league in goals right now, Crosby or not, it would be cause for concern for them. It shold be for any team.
I agree that the goals are concerning but you have to admit, that we're sitting in a playoff spot with our meager goal total and have yet to see really any of what this offense is capable of when they click, that has to be kind of encouraging, right? That's my view, at least. I'd rather be optimistic about this than embittered by it.
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Points in November matter just as much as points in February and March. I can guarantee TM isn't sitting there saying it's ok, streaks happen. Points are points, regardless of when you earn them.
I know that, my point being that it's almost as natural for good teams to lose hockey games as win them. Every team has their fair share of losses. I can only hope that the players, coaches, and management don't overreact as much as the majority of posters on here every time we lose a game, because that's a surefire way to get in a bad mindset and continue to lose games.
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Hockey isn't complicated, I agree. I'm also not asking for it to be complicated and I have no idea how in the world you managed to derive that from my post. The simplest fact of hockey though is that if you want to win games, you have to outscore your opponent. At the pace we are scoring, I don't see how we are going to do that on a regular basis and I don't see how that can't be of concern right now.
You don't have to outscore your opponent. That kind of thinking leads to overthinking and is one reason why teams lose. You have to outwork your opponent, play your game, and let the goals come naturally.
WOW..... We are a team that is taking time to actually gel and we aren't 20 games into the season yet. Go ahead and panic all you like but we have the talent and grit to be one of the top 8 teams in the league and should be there pretty quickly.....
Read this. Reread it before every game. If necessary, print it out, laminate a wallet sized copy, and read it just after you sit down in the stands.
Some of us sound like we've never seen any other team play more than one game at a time. As if we've never watched their 3 and 4 game slumps, their minutes of boring, predictable hockey, their turnover machines, floppy goalies, wings with hand of stone, and D who can't hit the net, and idiot coaches, etc. etc....
Right now, we just lost by one goal in a shootout, to the number one team in the league (that has had a winning culture for about twenty years, btw) and we're only six points behind them, overall.
Read this. Reread it before every game. If necessary, print it out, laminate a wallet sized copy, and read it just after you sit down in the stands.
Some of us sound like we've never seen any other team play more than one game at a time. As if we've never watched their 3 and 4 game slumps, their minutes of boring, predictable hockey, their turnover machines, floppy goalies, wings with hand of stone, and D who can't hit the net, and idiot coaches, etc. etc....
Right now, we just lost by one goal in a shootout, to the number one team in the league (that has had a winning culture for about twenty years, btw) and we're only six points behind them, overall.
And we're not even playing in sync yet.
Personally, I will readily admit I've been easily frustrated this season. I think it has mostly to do with the fact that I allowed myself to have extremely high expectations for this season (especially offensively), and seeing as how the Kings have not met my (possibly too lofty) expectations yet, I have been a little too negative. However, I was encouraged by the last game. If they approach each game like that (minus the penalties), I think they'll start scoring some more goals.
We are a team that is taking time to actually gel and we aren't 20 games into the season yet. Go ahead and panic all you like but we have the talent and grit to be one of the top 8 teams in the league and should be there pretty quickly.
Yes, it is early in the season and it would be reasonable to be patient to let the team gel - except that this isn't a new issue. The lack of offense has plagued this team for at least the last few seasons. By now many players should be comfortable playing together and knowing where the others will be, but that doesn't seem to be the case. The Kings have brought in 3 high-powered offensive players since the trade deadline and the offense is even more anemic than it was before. Weren't Richards and Gagne linemates before? Shouldn't there be some residual chemistry no matter who their other linemate is?
I'm not going to agree entirely with you assessment of the talent and grit level of this team, but they are a whole lot better than they've demonstrated. The main things to me that seem to be lacking is the ability of the coaching staff to adapt their system to talent level of the players that they have on the roster and their lack of ability to make positive and substantive adjustments during a game. If you replace guys like Handzus, Simmonds, and Poni with Richards, Gagne, and even Penner, there is simply no excuse for scoring that many fewer goals than last season at this time.
"I don't have time to research what I'm saying, just time to blurt out random ****, whether it's true or not."
Whether or not you had time to read it, it's been said in this thread Brown is firing at a career SO rate of 33% while JMFJ was 1/7 last year. how is that a better option?
At least research something before coming in here and sounding like a jackass.
I had just watched the game, was frustrated, and posted that to blow off some steam that way i could try to focus and get some studying done. Its not that big of a deal, get over it. And its not a requirement to read the entire thread before i post. if you were offended, oh well.
