If I understood your fans correctly in the other thread, you guys said you need offense this year but you didn't want to subtract a big piece from your current team. Trading a #4C and a prospect for what would be a #2 or #1 RW for you seems to fit that bill...
Blum is a 2nd pairing dman for us right now. His value is really, really high. Ellis is a true prospect. The difference in the value of those is massive.
Blum is a 2nd pairing dman for us right now. His value is really, really high. Ellis is a true prospect. The difference in the value of those is massive.
I would probably do a smithson and ellis or josi for vorachek and a 3rd. It would have to be a little bit later in the season though. Based on what I saw from jakub in columbus and practices at miami the kid is going to be a beast. 22 years old sniper with a big frame. Wouldn't do blum, but I would love to try to swing a deal for jakub. Problem is smithson is of greater value to the preds than we know. He is the poster boy of the preds lunch pail team
The fact that you added the negotiation is what makes it laughable.
Winner! A signed Weber is worth far more than that package. You can argue Giroux is worth more but there are many, many teams that would give more than your offered package for a signed Weber.
I don't want to be too harsh (ok, I do but will resist) but you can't ask about the value of a player and then make that player the throw in part of a trade proposal. It's sort of like "What's the value of Philly's 2012 fourth round pick?" and then saying "OK, what about that pick plus Sott Hartnell in exchange for Jon Blum?" At that point, the trade isn't about the fourth round pick. At all.
I don't want to be too harsh (ok, I do but will resist) but you can't ask about the value of a player and then make that player the throw in part of a trade proposal. It's sort of like "What's the value of Philly's 2012 fourth round pick?" and then saying "OK, what about that pick plus Sott Hartnell in exchange for Jon Blum?" At that point, the trade isn't about the fourth round pick. At all.
I apologize, I edited my initial post.
When I first thought of the thread, it was just for Smithson, but then the idea grew. Obviously Smithson is more valuable to you than just a mid round pick, so even though that's his real value, your brass would never trade him for that alone. So then I thought back to the fact that you guys need / want offense and the idea grew from there.
I should have further developed the idea before posting this thread.
When I first thought of the thread, it was just for Smithson, but then the idea grew. Obviously Smithson is more valuable to you than just a mid round pick, so even though that's his real value, your brass would never trade him for that alone. So then I thought back to the fact that you guys need / want offense and the idea grew from there.
I should have further developed the idea before posting this thread.
Honestly, goal scoring hasn't been as much of an issue this season when we're healthy especially.
Just to give you guys an idea of what I have to put up with on the Flyers' forum:
Are y'all aware that Weber is a RFA after this year not an UFA? Big difference hence why Weber holds tremendous value.
Also I like your proposals, and if things weren't to go down the way us preds fan hope.. then I think a deal could be reached with the pieces you proposed. Although my only complaint is I would like more of star for star swap. ala Weber for Parise sort.
I would say yes. would be happier with a 2nd round pick though just in case Voracek doesn't pan out and Ellis does lol. That's the risks with trade like these, though.
Go propose it on the main-board and see what happens... Ask them who has more value, Giroux @ 3.75M for the next 3 years or Weber @ $7M for the next 5 years. I think you'll be surprised by the answers...
Ignoring money, Giroux and Weber are quite comparable in value. But in a salary cap environment, you cannot ignore money and the fact that Giroux is making half of what Weber is making makes him more valuable. I'm not saying it's a huge difference, just saying it's there.
I dont care what ignorant HF posters say about the deal, us preds fans know what Shea Weber, our captain, is worth to our team. Thats just the truth. Really isnt a debate. I agree Giroux has high value, but if Shea was signed his would definitely be worth more.
Signed Norris canidate> Signed 70-80 point center...
But asking JVR or Giroux for a guy who won't likely be traded unless he tells NSH he doesn't want to re-sign there is a bit much IMO. I was trying to offer a realistic package of players that could actually be dealt. The thing is, in the real NHL, you never see the kind of deals you are talking about... the price for a star is never an established player with huge star potential (JVR) + more. Mike Richards on a team-friendly deal that extends for the next 10 years netted Schenn, Simmonds, and a 3rd. I offered Schenn, Voracek, Carle, + pick for Weber who is currently only guaranteed for 1 more year and if locked up would take a large chunk of money. Same headliner, but significantly better secondary pieces of the puzzle. Based on the going rate of players on the actual trade market, I'd say it's decent value. Maybe you want a higher premium / overpayment from Philly, but I don't see that happening from our end. Maybe that means we're not good trade partners. I dunno.
And as far as Giroux goes, that's just never happening... ever. Look @ his cap hit and you'll see why. He just might be the most valuable player in the NHL given his current contract. If not, he is definitely top-5.
if you want to talk about things that don't happen in the real NHL, clauses like negotiating a contract before a trade is one of those. Neither does the good ol' sign-and-trade. Throw all that out the window.
Bottom line is, if you want something, you're going to have to give up something. In this case, you're asking for one of the top 5 defensemen in the league who's also an RFA. Giroux had one season where his points output was roughly what we get out of Weber (16-31-47) and one...ONE season at 76 points. Need I remind you Todd White had a similar season with the Thrashers a few years ago. If he does it again, then maybe you'd look at a Weber-For-Giroux straight up type trade. Until he proves he can do it again, you're going to have to add value to Giroux.
JVR only has two pretty good NHL seasons under his belt. To think you'd get Weber for JVR straight up is ridiculous. Yes, they both have good potential, but Nashville's not looking for potential. nashville is ready now.
What do you think the value of Matt Halischuk is? And what do we hope from him in the future?
I doubt Halischuk is going to command much value. He reminds me of a young Joel Ward which is okay for a team but trade value-wise, not going to probably get much in return. In the future I hope he can turn into a Ward type. A solid and consistent third liner, or second in some cases. Of course this depends on who is surrounding him at the time. We occasionally have first-liners that would be third-liners on other clubs.
Jakub Vorachek a 3rd for Smithson and Ellis or Josi would be a pretty sick deal. This deal wouldn't be able to get done until after spaling gets healthy, but I certainly think it is doable on our end. Even if Rads comes back next season, adding Vorachek would be a great move for our third line and means we can put Bergfors on waivers/permascratch. Imagine putting legwand on a line with Jakub
SK Fisher Erat
Wilson Legwand Vorachek
Hals Smith Hornqvist
Tootoo Spaling McGrattan
That is a pretty sick line up. All three top lines can score.
The value is there, but I worry about how young this team can get and still be able to play consistently or have the mental toughness/experience to get out of a slump. Experience is good to have during the tough times, down the stretch, and in the play offs. Then again, players who can score are also good to have in those times...
I doubt Halischuk is going to command much value. He reminds me of a young Joel Ward which is okay for a team but trade value-wise, not going to probably get much in return. In the future I hope he can turn into a Ward type. A solid and consistent third liner, or second in some cases. Of course this depends on who is surrounding him at the time. We occasionally have first-liners that would be third-liners on other clubs.
Still, a decent pick (say 3rd rounder) going into a deep draft is not always a bad thing.
I know we're division rivals and trades don't normally go down between division rivals but I was curious how Nashville would feel about trading Suter. He'd fill the biggest need we have and I think we could be a pretty good trade partner for you guys as we have pretty good decent forward depth.
Anyway here's my proposal
To Nashville:
T.J. Oshie
Ian Cole
1st Round Pick/Jaden Schwartz(either or)
To St. Louis:
Ryan Suter
Is that something that Nashville would be interested in?
I know we're division rivals and trades don't normally go down between division rivals but I was curious how Nashville would feel about trading Suter. He'd fill the biggest need we have and I think we could be a pretty good trade partner for you guys as we have pretty good decent forward depth.
Anyway here's my proposal
To Nashville:
T.J. Oshie
Ian Cole
1st Round Pick/Jaden Schwartz(either or)
To St. Louis:
Ryan Suter
Is that something that Nashville would be interested in?
I know we're division rivals and trades don't normally go down between division rivals but I was curious how Nashville would feel about trading Suter. He'd fill the biggest need we have and I think we could be a pretty good trade partner for you guys as we have pretty good decent forward depth.
Anyway here's my proposal
To Nashville:
T.J. Oshie
Ian Cole
1st Round Pick/Jaden Schwartz(either or)
To St. Louis:
Ryan Suter
Is that something that Nashville would be interested in?
It has good value, but we really don't need the 1st and while Cole is a nice young defender he has yet to prove as much as Suter has. Oshie hasn't hit 50 points yet and has only one "full" season with 70ish games. I'd rather take my chances on re-signing Suter.
