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11-07-2011, 01:21 PM
  #26
adam graves
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Originally Posted by StrangeVision View Post
Goaltending at this level is all about consistency. He hasn't proven he is able to play at a high level consistently. While this is in fact due to circumstance, it is still an issue. I have no doubt that if he dominates the AHL for an extended period of time, he will be brought back to the NHL.

His time in the NHL at this point would be split with Theodore. He will be the clear #1 in the AHL and will get plenty of time to prove himself further.

Jacob Markstrom FLA 5gp 9ga 161 shots .944pct 5th in league (Theodore dead last)

What else were you looking for him to prove?

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11-07-2011, 01:38 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by adam graves View Post
Jacob Markstrom FLA 5gp 9ga 161 shots .944pct 5th in league (Theodore dead last)

What else were you looking for him to prove?
Not sure what that means?

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11-07-2011, 01:43 PM
  #28
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Don't like this. It frustrates me, but GR tweeted Tallon saying Markstrom will be up soon enough and this is temporary. Hope that means they're looking to move Clemmensen THIS year, and really within weeks. Not gonna hold my breath, but I imagine it'll depend on how Clemmer does.

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11-07-2011, 01:46 PM
  #29
adam graves
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Originally Posted by Erick View Post
Not sure what that means?
It means unlike SV says Markstrom did everything to prove his consistency and is uncontroverted the best goalie of the three. (Theodore is ranked last in the NHL in GAA; Clemmer, well we all saw clemmer last year).

That doesnt mean Theodore isnt capable or serviceable; but right now Markstrom was our #1 and we sent our #1 down to save $$.

Thoroughly frustrated by this. I thought we were done with frivolous decisions.


Last edited by adam graves: 11-07-2011 at 01:51 PM.
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11-07-2011, 01:51 PM
  #30
Le Magnifique 66
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Sucks for Markstrom but he will be a great goalie down the road. I really enjoy watching him play, you guys are lucky

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11-07-2011, 01:53 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adam graves View Post
It means unlike SV says Markstrom did everything to prove his consistnecy and is uncontroverted the best goalie of the three. (Theodore is ranked last in the NHL in GAA)

That doesnt mean Theodore isnt capable or serviceable; but right now Markstrom was our #1 and we sent our #1 down to save $$.
No, he's not.
He has a 2.59 GAA this year.

That's what confused me about your post; I understood the rest.

Although I think what SV is trying to say is that consistency = more than 5 games/3 starts (not that that's Markstrom's fault as he hasn't really been given the chance to play more).

All in all, I actually don't think this has much to do with money.

If you ask me who our most talented goalie is, I'd go with Markstrom.

However, at the end of the day, that's probably the reason why this move was made. He needs to play.

As Tallon said, if Clemmensen is healthy from Opening Night, Markstrom never makes the team anyway.

They'll probably try to trade Clemmensen and there will probably be no takers, and they'll just stay with Theo-Clemmer as originally planned.
It's not the greatest of goalie tandems, but it's a tandem that can win games. They've both proven that in their respective careers.

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11-07-2011, 01:53 PM
  #32
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Can somebody explain to me why this is a good thing when markström is better then both clemmensen and Theodore. Not saying he has to be nr1 but if you know hockey you can see that he is better. This is something i as a swede will never understand about the NHL. And it is not about markström, I didnt even think he would play as good as he did...

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11-07-2011, 01:59 PM
  #33
adam graves
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick View Post
No, he's not.
He has a 2.59 GAA this year.

That's what confused me about your post; I understood the rest.

Although I think what SV is trying to say is that consistency = more than 5 games/3 starts (not that that's Markstrom's fault as he hasn't really been given the chance to play more).

All in all, I actually don't think this has much to do with money.

If you ask me who our most talented goalie is, I'd go with Markstrom.

However, at the end of the day, that's probably the reason why this move was made. He needs to play.

As Tallon said, if Clemmensen is healthy from Opening Night, Markstrom never makes the team anyway.

They'll probably try to trade Clemmensen and there will probably be no takers, and they'll just stay with Theo-Clemmer as originally planned.
It's not the greatest of goalie tandems, but it's a tandem that can win games. They've both proven that in their respective careers.
My apologies. i wrote GAA and i meant save percentage. Theodore is last in the NHL in save percentage of all goalies where Markstrom is 5th. If you go to qualified goalies Markstrom moves to 4th and Theodore to about 23rd.

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11-07-2011, 02:12 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by adam graves View Post
My apologies. i wrote GAA and i meant save percentage. Theodore is last in the NHL in save percentage of all goalies where Markstrom is 5th. If you go to qualified goalies Markstrom moves to 4th and Theodore to about 23rd.
Theodore is not last in save % either.
He has a .914 save% which is actually quite good.

To be fair, it's also unfair to look at stats this early in the year.
Some of the guys listed are backup goaltenders (like Markstrom). Those backups have played 4-5 games while Theodore has already played 9 (starter).

Of the guys in the top-10 in save % right now, those guys include Harding, Biron, Enroth, Markstrom, and Dan Ellis.
Further extend the list and you've got guys like Dubynk, Montoya, Greiss, and Nabokov.

This doesn't really tell us a thing. It just says that some backup goaltenders have played well in their smaller sample size of games.

Look at the guys (starters) around Theodore and it's actually rather telling that he's played pretty well.
He's just under Vokoun and ahead of people like Cam Ward, Corey Crawford, Niklas Backstrom, Carey Price, Jonas Hiller, Roberto Luongo, and Ilya Bryzgalov.

Theodore's played well and is not dead last in anything, at the moment.

I do think Markstrom has looked better, but that's not really a knock on Theodore. 9 games in, Theodore has played like a guy who deserves to be a starting goalie on most teams.

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11-07-2011, 02:24 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adam graves View Post
Jacob Markstrom FLA 5gp 9ga 161 shots .944pct 5th in league (Theodore dead last)

What else were you looking for him to prove?
Five games is not a very large sample (one of those five was a single period). Your assertion that he was our #1 was also quite wrong. Theodore has gotten most of the starts thus far, and if he hadn't left the Islanders game, Markstrom's games played would drop to four.

I'm not saying I want Markstrom to stay in the AHL permanently, I'm just saying that given the current goalie situation, it's not a bad idea to have him start every game in the AHL, as opposed to splitting time in the NHL while Clemmensen's trade value drops even more as he sits and rots.

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11-07-2011, 02:36 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StrangeVision View Post
Five games is not a very large sample (one of those five was a single period). Your assertion that he was our #1 was also quite wrong. Theodore has gotten most of the starts thus far, and if he hadn't left the Islanders game, Markstrom's games played would drop to four.

I'm not saying I want Markstrom to stay in the AHL permanently, I'm just saying that given the current goalie situation, it's not a bad idea to have him start every game in the AHL, as opposed to splitting time in the NHL while Clemmensen's trade value drops even more as he sits and rots.
Not sure Theodore "left" the islander game but lets leave it at that.

Markstrom started 2 of the last 3 playing awesome. Who was number one between the two of them we can debate. Who was number three is undebateable.

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11-07-2011, 02:36 PM
  #37
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The only impression I get is that this is about money. People can say that Markstrom doesn't have enough experience but IMO this organization doesn't want to play Clemmensen 1.5M to start in the AHL so they called him up and sent back Markstrom.

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11-07-2011, 03:01 PM
  #38
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Clem HAS to come up and play some games to show other teams his value (or lack of). It's not that difficult of a concept to grasp. We have one goalie that we can send down without waivers and it's Markstrom.

If Clemmer comes up and stinks the joint up, he will not be here long (use the Booth situation as an example).

Calm down, this is a short lived situation.

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11-07-2011, 03:04 PM
  #39
adam graves
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panthertod View Post
Clem HAS to come up and play some games to show other teams his value (or lack of). It's not that difficult of a concept to grasp. We have one goalie that we can send down without waivers and it's Markstrom.

If Clemmer comes up and stinks the joint up, he will not be here long (use the Booth situation as an example).

Calm down, this is a short lived situation.
If clemmer stinks the joint up he wont have any trade value. And at what price in the standings? Grasp that.

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11-07-2011, 03:08 PM
  #40
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I hope Clemmensen stinks it up. Our defense needs a fire lit under it's ass.

edit: stinks it up just enough to get the defense going. not enough to make him undesirable. I should write him a letter.

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11-07-2011, 03:31 PM
  #41
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I think it is faulty logic to say that Clemmenson stunk last year. For most of the season he was playing with what most of would consider an ahl team in front of him. This years team is way better than what we had last year and for all we know he could play as well as he did when he filled in for Brodeur considering we have a real team in front of him. Let's give the guy a chance before we condemn him

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11-07-2011, 03:39 PM
  #42
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don't like this. tallon and co. always talk about how performance is the only thing this organization is worried about. it's why they traded booth, to send that message to everyone.

well, markstrom has performed. and he gets sent down. 1000000% double standard and complete ********.

trade clemmensen to the blue jackets already. steve mason is unfathomably bad, they need someone to hold the fort until they can get that kid straightened out. take someone like jared boll (provides some toughness to a pretty soft team, and is actually a decent player, not like hordichuk or whatever other clowns we've had) and curtis sanford (for SA) in return to even the $$ out

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11-07-2011, 03:43 PM
  #43
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While I agree that Markstrom is playing well I would rather he continue to hone his craft by starting as many games as possible, and that will only happen in SA given that we have 3 goalies now. There's no other way short of a trade that this could be done, and IMO it's too risky at this point to trade Theodore and probably too much is unknown about Clem by other teams for them to pull the trigger on any kind of trade. The reality for us right now is that our team doesn't score alot, we've scored more than 3 goals twice this season. Whoever our goalie is, he has to play lights out every single night for us to win. I don't think that's the best situation to put a rookie goalie into. I am happy with the team so far but looking at the standings we are only 5 points away from last place in the conference. I don't care if I get flamed for stating the truth. I am hopeful that we will make the playoffs but if we are on the outside looking in come the trading deadline then what do we do? I'd rather have played Clemmenson a fair amount to see if we could get some kind of return for him at that time. Our prospects thus far are developing better because of not being rushed and I am all for continuing that process, so while I do love what I've seen from Markstrom and am highly encouraged, I can see why they sent him down for the time being.

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11-07-2011, 03:56 PM
  #44
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This is all about money. Markstrom's development is probably better suited as a full time starter in the AHL but there are also benefits of playing NHL caliber opponents as well, even if it is semi-regularly. When Clemmer gets traded this all being about money will be confirmed. Just like moving Booth was about money/contract flexibility.

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11-07-2011, 04:11 PM
  #45
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Not liking the move but I understand it. I been tuning into alot of FLA games this season and i've been very impressed with this kid. I wouldnt be shocked in 5-7 yrs if were talking Vezina with this kid maybe even earlier.

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11-07-2011, 04:13 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adam graves View Post
Jacob Markstrom FLA 5gp 9ga 161 shots .944pct 5th in league
What else were you looking for him to prove?

So now that we know we might actually have a golden goose...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
Purely a business move. They're going to try to move Clemmer. Not much to discuss here. Once they can move him up Markstrom will come. All about $$$$$.

As well as Markstrom has been playing he could still use some more starts on a regular basis so it's not like this will be bad for him.
also
Quote:
Originally Posted by adam graves View Post
If clemmer stinks the joint up he wont have any trade value. And at what price in the standings? Grasp that.
and might I add:
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackpanthers View Post
I think it is faulty logic to say that Clemmenson stunk last year. For most of the season he was playing with what most of would consider an ahl team in front of him. This years team is way better than what we had last year and for all we know he could play as well as he did when he filled in for Brodeur considering we have a real team in front of him. Let's give the guy a chance before we condemn him

We're in great shape, I think everyone knows the score. Clemmer should do well applying for his next job...or so well we won't want him out, and then we have one hell of a great goalie situation.

End of the day this is win-win for us! WTF~ We'd just waive him if he stinks it up anyway!

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11-07-2011, 04:15 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick View Post
No, he's not.
He has a 2.59 GAA this year.

That's what confused me about your post; I understood the rest.

Although I think what SV is trying to say is that consistency = more than 5 games/3 starts (not that that's Markstrom's fault as he hasn't really been given the chance to play more).

All in all, I actually don't think this has much to do with money.

If you ask me who our most talented goalie is, I'd go with Markstrom.

However, at the end of the day, that's probably the reason why this move was made. He needs to play.

As Tallon said, if Clemmensen is healthy from Opening Night, Markstrom never makes the team anyway.

They'll probably try to trade Clemmensen and there will probably be no takers, and they'll just stay with Theo-Clemmer as originally planned.
It's not the greatest of goalie tandems, but it's a tandem that can win games. They've both proven that in their respective careers.
A good third of my posts probably say something about you speaking for me

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11-07-2011, 04:17 PM
  #48
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People with thousands invested in this team want to win NOW. This appears to be a save money in exchange for wins move. I hope they prove me wrong and trade clemmer this week for a bag of pucks and bring Markstrom back.

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11-07-2011, 04:36 PM
  #49
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Don't know how many times I've said this but Clemmer isn't bring anything back in a trade. If he struggles, Panthers simply waive him and call up Marky. I highly doubt anyone would even claim clemmer off waivers. Seriously, which team really needs a career backup right now? NONE, including the panthers.

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11-07-2011, 04:40 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calahanzoer View Post
Can somebody explain to me why this is a good thing when markström is better then both clemmensen and Theodore. Not saying he has to be nr1 but if you know hockey you can see that he is better. This is something i as a swede will never understand about the NHL. And it is not about markström, I didnt even think he would play as good as he did...
Lol it's called developing a player. Stop being so pig headed. And he's not better than Theodore yet. He had a great start and now is the perfect time to send him down. Don't be surprised if you see him again this year.

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