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#13 Kings v Penguins 11/5/11 - S/O LOSS, POST GAME THOUGHTS & TIDBITS

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11-07-2011, 03:03 PM
  #201
Duc620
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Originally Posted by Josh Deitell View Post
Dan Bylsma never beats anybody. His players do. Systems in hockey are really less important than they're made out to be. It's a free-flowing game with constant adjustment required by the players. For that reason, the only consistencies need be awareness and work ethic. Everything else comes from that.
Absolutely! Especially the "free-flowing" part. It's funny, I was thinking about this stuff just before the start of the game and one of the first thing Fox said was, "... read and react....how will the Kings players read and react?"

It takes time and games and pressure to get everyone reading and reacting instinctively in the same way... and that's really all the Kings are lacking right now. Time and playing together.

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11-07-2011, 03:14 PM
  #202
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[QUOTE=Josh Deitell;39094889]
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But he did, and we've seen this year so far and last year that he's capable of playing at an elite level for consistent stretches. Why is goal scoring so important but our goaltending counts for nothing?
Where did I say it counts for nothing? Don't put words in my mouth. What I am saying is for us to reference a 4-1 stretch where we needed shutouts to win most of those games is not something anyone should be using to illustrate as a source of overall team strength. If we had won them all 5-0, sure. But 1-0, not so much. Quick is great, we get that, but if you think winning 1-0 and 2-1 will last all the time, you are likely in for a rude awakening.

Quote:
Columbus has more goals than us this season, but I don't think you'd find one person who cares about their scoring because their situation in nets is terrible. I think we're spoiled by this tandem we have, Bernier's poor play this year aside. Before Quick, goaltending was the major organization issue. Now it's goal scoring. It's always something. I'm pretty content with this team, it's hard to get upset about much when I compare it to the versions I grew up with.
Yes it always something. It's called pushing for better, which i'd think all teams in a multi-billion dollar organization would do. I'm the first oneto praise the team when they are doing well, but this current discussion is about their offense. It stinks lately and it is a big part of winning. It is the biggest part of winning. Even if Quick posts donuts through 65 minutes game in and game out, we can't win without a goal. And right now, we are barely mustering two a game, which has us second last in the entire league. It is somewhat early, yes, but not so early the number games doesn't show some reasoning to our concerns. I'm sorry, but just because the Kings have had brutal teams more often than not in their history doesn't make me satisfied with watching us not live up to our potential now. And if you want to compare past and present, the lone Kings team to make a cup run was 1993 and that was a much more run and gun team than we've seen in a while.

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It's just, it's easy to find something to get upset about if you're looking for it. First it was the powerplay, which is now clicking at 20% (top 10 in the league), and you notice, people are quiet about it. It hasn't come up in a while. Neither has goaltending, for years now really, save for Quick's weak games. More short term: Greene's play is better. Kopitar's scoring. As of last game, the team is hitting again. If this team gets a bounce or two and gets a few goals in the net, they're going to go on a tear. There's really not much wrong right now.
So we don't complain when things go well? What a novel concept. Does your boss and customers reem into you when you show up to work on time and get your tasks done when scheduled? It's a fact of life, you don't live up to expectations of someone who is paying for a product you provide, they will be upset. When you start doing what you're supposed to do, the *****ing subsides. It's not like what's going on here is in someway morphed from real life. They want us to stop the talk? Score more than two goals a game on average. Even the players are saying that, if you read the quote from JMFJ in the Sharks GDT.


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Both stretches are worth acknowledging, I'm just pointing out that it's easy to forget that this team is capable of scoring goals inside this system, weak opposing goalie or not.
No, it doesn't prove a thing. We scored goals against one goaltender, not a different one every night, during a stretch when he posted arguably the worst playoff series for a Sharks goalie, ever. If Neimi plays even remotely close to how he did after that series, which wasn't great either btw, we aren't scoring that many goals per game. If we would have played six games against six different goalies and still done that, I'd be more impressed. We didn't.


Quote:
Dan Bylsma never beats anybody. His players do. Systems in hockey are really less important than they're made out to be. It's a free-flowing game with constant adjustment required by the players. For that reason, the only consistencies need be awareness and work ethic. Everything else comes from that.
What a load. Have you ever coached the game? Reading this, I'd assume not unless you count playing NHL12 as coaching.

If it was like this, why even have practices? Why not tell the players to just warm up and go out there? "Be aware and work hard boys." If it was that simple, we'd be to busy getting paid a million a year coaching to post on these boards.

Ever see draw plays off face offs? Positioning on the offensive/defensive zones? Line match ups? Set plays that teams at time work the puck for a minute or two at atime to get just right? Do you think players think all this stuff up on the fly?


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I agree that the goals are concerning but you have to admit, that we're sitting in a playoff spot with our meager goal total and have yet to see really any of what this offense is capable of when they click, that has to be kind of encouraging, right? That's my view, at least. I'd rather be optimistic about this than embittered by it.
Of course I'm encouraged by it. And I'm optimistic about it, despite my posts. But I'd rather see us get after the problem now, then wait until we fall out of a playoff spot. Two goals a game isn't likely to keep us there, unless you expect Quick's .942 save percentage to last all year. I hope it does because that would be a league record high for a full season.


Quote:
You don't have to outscore your opponent. That kind of thinking leads to overthinking and is one reason why teams lose. You have to outwork your opponent, play your game, and let the goals come naturally
Put it however you want. Bottom line is, to win, you need more goals. Period. Of course you have to outwork the other side, that's a no-brainer, but you can work as hard as you want, if you don't score, you don't win.

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Old
11-07-2011, 03:21 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by ZJames View Post
I had just watched the game, was frustrated, and posted that to blow off some steam that way i could try to focus and get some studying done. Its not that big of a deal, get over it. And its not a requirement to read the entire thread before i post. if you were offended, oh well.
It should be a requirement to at least fact check before you post blatantly wrong comments. Oh well though, I guess we can't expect you to have that kind of effort, huh?

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11-07-2011, 03:28 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
It should be a requirement to at least fact check before you post blatantly wrong comments. Oh well though, I guess we can't expect you to have that kind of effort, huh?
Nice comeback, i must applaud you

But it looks like got a little hypocritical, and went against what you were preaching. Saying that DB is a better option because he is 33 percent on his career, and JJ was only 1/7 LAST YEAR (one season does not a career make). Fact is that Jack has a better career shootout percentage than DB (36%) http://hockeyboxscores.com/players/johnj004.shtml

So either you didnt bother doing your own research before posting your comments, or you warped the data to fit your agenda. If you are going to use a career average for DB, then you have to do it for JJ as well.

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11-07-2011, 03:36 PM
  #205
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Can't we just agree that Brown and JJ are equally bad at the shootout (not true they are about statistically average in terms of other NHL players' success) and whoever Murray chooses to take the shot, if he misses, we will condemn Murray for selecting that player to shoot.

Of course if the player scores, the player gets all the credit.

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11-07-2011, 03:41 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by ZJames View Post
Nice comeback, i must applaud you

But it looks like got a little hypocritical, and went against what you were preaching. Saying that DB is a better option because he is 33 percent on his career, and JJ was only 1/7 LAST YEAR (one season does not a career make). Fact is that Jack has a better career shootout percentage than DB (36%) http://hockeyboxscores.com/players/johnj004.shtml

So either you didnt bother doing your own research before posting your comments, or you warped the data to fit your agenda. If you are going to use a career average for DB, then you have to do it for JJ as well.
Fine, I will back it up with more stats then.

Dustin Brown was 2/7 last year overall, so slightly higher than Johnson's 1/7. Career wise Johnson got off to a great start, going 6/17 in 2009-2010 and 3/6 in 2008-2009. His numbers dropped last year though quite noticeably.

When you break it down by where they shoot, at home, Brown has a rate of 38.5% (10/26) while Johnson is 21.4% (3/14). Clearly, stats wise the better option at home was Brown.

Really, no matter how you slice it, Brown was the better choice, especially at home where, percentage wise, he's nearly double Johnson's succes rate.

My original point is that, unlike what you might think, Johnson was far from being the better choice in the shootout over Brown, and your ill-advised rant was not backed in facts whatsoever. Johnson may have a better career average, that I will grant you, but the bulk of that success came on the road and in prvious seasons, neither of which was applicable on Saturday night. Johnson was not the correct call for the Kings, given the successes of the past and the likelihood they would continue, as there is no reason to believe Brown would suddenly become less potent this year at home.

Clear enough for you now?

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11-07-2011, 03:41 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Can't we just agree that Brown and JJ are equally bad at the shootout (not true they are about statistically average in terms of other NHL players' success) and whoever Murray chooses to take the shot, if he misses, we will condemn Murray for selecting that player to shoot.

Of course if the player scores, the player gets all the credit.
If they both score, Kompon gets the credit

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11-07-2011, 04:10 PM
  #208
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Westgarth should have been used in the shootout. Otherwise he was a complete waste of a roster spot. Sitting one of the better PKers on the Kings for 2 minutes of Westgarth?

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11-07-2011, 04:57 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
Fine, I will back it up with more stats then.

Dustin Brown was 2/7 last year overall, so slightly higher than Johnson's 1/7. Career wise Johnson got off to a great start, going 6/17 in 2009-2010 and 3/6 in 2008-2009. His numbers dropped last year though quite noticeably.

When you break it down by where they shoot, at home, Brown has a rate of 38.5% (10/26) while Johnson is 21.4% (3/14). Clearly, stats wise the better option at home was Brown.

Really, no matter how you slice it, Brown was the better choice, especially at home where, percentage wise, he's nearly double Johnson's succes rate.

My original point is that, unlike what you might think, Johnson was far from being the better choice in the shootout over Brown, and your ill-advised rant was not backed in facts whatsoever. Johnson may have a better career average, that I will grant you, but the bulk of that success came on the road and in prvious seasons, neither of which was applicable on Saturday night. Johnson was not the correct call for the Kings, given the successes of the past and the likelihood they would continue, as there is no reason to believe Brown would suddenly become less potent this year at home.

Clear enough for you now?
Those are some impressive numbers you came up with if they have a source, and if there is a source to them then i dont have a strong argument to counter it.

But truth be told, i could care less about the Johnson/DB shootout argument. The only think i care about is that the Kings are winning games. Sure I came on here and made a post complaining about the people being used in the shootout, and if so what if i didnt spend the time to look up all the shootout numbers. Everyone shoots off their mouth from time to time.

If a post on the internet that was not aimed towards anyone, or trying to start a fight or criticize anyone else on the boards after a hockey game bothered you THAT MUCH, then i think its ok to say something about it. But there is a respectful way to go about it. But to turn around and shoot off your mouth and call me a jackass, well that makes you sound like a jackass just as much as my post makes me sound that way.

Complete honesty, i let my frustration get the better of me during our little argument. Fact of the matter is that this is a pretty stupid thing to be fighting about.

So I apologize for my part in this argument.

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11-07-2011, 05:06 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
Fine, I will back it up with more stats then.

Dustin Brown was 2/7 last year overall, so slightly higher than Johnson's 1/7. Career wise Johnson got off to a great start, going 6/17 in 2009-2010 and 3/6 in 2008-2009. His numbers dropped last year though quite noticeably.

When you break it down by where they shoot, at home, Brown has a rate of 38.5% (10/26) while Johnson is 21.4% (3/14). Clearly, stats wise the better option at home was Brown.

Really, no matter how you slice it, Brown was the better choice, especially at home where, percentage wise, he's nearly double Johnson's succes rate.

My original point is that, unlike what you might think, Johnson was far from being the better choice in the shootout over Brown, and your ill-advised rant was not backed in facts whatsoever. Johnson may have a better career average, that I will grant you, but the bulk of that success came on the road and in prvious seasons, neither of which was applicable on Saturday night. Johnson was not the correct call for the Kings, given the successes of the past and the likelihood they would continue, as there is no reason to believe Brown would suddenly become less potent this year at home.

Clear enough for you now?
Hockey's not like baseball where home/road splits mean something for someone's numbers, especially for shootouts. All ice rinks are the same dimensions. All nets are the same dimensions. They cut the ice the same way before the shoot. The fact Brown has better home shootout stats and Johnson has better road shootout stats just comes down to variable chance.

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11-07-2011, 07:29 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by ZJames View Post
Complete honesty, i let my frustration get the better of me during our little argument. Fact of the matter is that this is a pretty stupid thing to be fighting about.

So I apologize for my part in this argument.
Props for saying that.

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11-08-2011, 09:37 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by ZJames View Post
Those are some impressive numbers you came up with if they have a source, and if there is a source to them then i dont have a strong argument to counter it.

But truth be told, i could care less about the Johnson/DB shootout argument. The only think i care about is that the Kings are winning games. Sure I came on here and made a post complaining about the people being used in the shootout, and if so what if i didnt spend the time to look up all the shootout numbers. Everyone shoots off their mouth from time to time.

If a post on the internet that was not aimed towards anyone, or trying to start a fight or criticize anyone else on the boards after a hockey game bothered you THAT MUCH, then i think its ok to say something about it. But there is a respectful way to go about it. But to turn around and shoot off your mouth and call me a jackass, well that makes you sound like a jackass just as much as my post makes me sound that way.

Complete honesty, i let my frustration get the better of me during our little argument. Fact of the matter is that this is a pretty stupid thing to be fighting about.

So I apologize for my part in this argument
.
Agreed. I did as well. My bad for not just letting it slide instead of getting mad. Emotional times to be a Kings fan I guess. My apologizes to you as well.

An apology on HFboards? Must be the apocolypse coming for sure. It really is our year!! Go Kings!!

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