HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Time for a new coach?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-01-2011, 10:28 AM
  #576
NYR Sting
Heart and Soul
 
NYR Sting's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 9,506
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
i'm going to have to pull the age old "agree to disagree" on this one

i think all the things you mentioned above are things they've been trying to do all season but have been hindered due to their own:

- horrid neutral zone play
- sloppy passing
- poor anticipation and movement without the puck
- and general "slow" play amungst other things
I don't know what they were trying to do, but the fact of the matter is that they didn't. And they never did it last season, or the year before, so even if what you're saying is true, it says a lot about their "system." Hell, they haven't done it for years, even before Tortorella, and sloppy passing and poor anticipation and movement without the puck is not something that came about in the last 9 games. Those are excellent descriptive terms for Rangers hockey (Jaromir Jagr and friends aside) for over a decade now. At least before you had the excuse that they didn't have the talent. That excuse isn't quite as viable anymore, although still true to some extent. They've been playing a style of hockey that has more in common with your local house league than it does with the NHL for a number of years now. Yes, they still need to add skill and talent to their roster, but they are too good at this point to keep doing that. It's unacceptable, and EVERY SINGLE TIME you ever see a glimpse of them leaving that infantile and primitive mentality behind for something a little bit more sophisticated, like last night, you almost always see instant results.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
I saw a far greater emphasis placed on gaining the zone with possession last night rather than purely dumping and chasing. FOr the first nine games of the season, you could basically count on two hands how often the Rangers carried the puck into the neutral zone. Last night, particularly from the start of the second onward, it happened with great frequency.

I have no idea if that was a shift in strategy or what, but it did seem pretty apparent to me.
Yes, precisely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
So, I think better breakouts and better neutral zone play were a large part of what you saw happening with the Rangers carrying the puck, etc. Their attacks were more coordinated and the Sharks couldn't just stand up at their blueline as easily (which I think is also a huge reason why you saw the Rangers dumping the puck so much before...their neutral zone play and transition was poor and teams just stacked the blueline)
It's not a coincidence that this improved just as the team's best and most consistent passer from the blueline returned to the lineup. Sauer was phenomenal in the Sens game, and phenomenal again last night. Del Zotto also played his best even strength game, offensively, of the season last night.

NYR Sting is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-01-2011, 10:39 AM
  #577
haveandare
Registered User
 
haveandare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 8,831
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
i'm going to have to pull the age old "agree to disagree" on this one

i think all the things you mentioned above are things they've been trying to do all season but have been hindered due to their own:

- horrid neutral zone play
- sloppy passing
- poor anticipation and movement without the puck
- and general "slow" play amungst other things
I agree. The idea that Torts' strategy was to dump and chase and then fail to cycle makes no sense. Last night was an example of players executing the game plan correctly.

haveandare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-01-2011, 10:46 AM
  #578
wolfgaze
Interesting Cat
 
wolfgaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 12,381
vCash: 500
I saw players dumping the puck in last night... Difference is we had forwards going in and retrieving the puck....

wolfgaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-01-2011, 10:49 AM
  #579
nyr2k2
Can't Beat Him
 
nyr2k2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Country: United States
Posts: 24,831
vCash: 50
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
I saw players dumping the puck in last night... Difference is we had forwards going in and retrieving the puck....
Oh, I didn't mean to imply that the dump and chase wasn't present at all last night; rather that it wasn't our sole tactic for gaining the zone.

__________________

It's just pain.
nyr2k2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-01-2011, 10:49 AM
  #580
94now
Registered User
 
94now's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Snow Belt, USA
Country: United Nations
Posts: 6,447
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
I agree. The idea that Torts' strategy was to dump and chase and then fail to cycle makes no sense. Last night was an example of players executing the game plan correctly.
No, if that was the case, no wrap arounds would be attempted. Just don't tell me Frolov did it on his own.
Cycling is not a dump-and-chase outcome or continuation. It may be, but it is not given. Forecheck is what Torts used after puck was surrendered after being dumped in. After you obtain the puck by hitting Ds hard many things could be done. Wrap around just one of them. Passing to the point and shooting from there for loose change pick up at the slot could be another. Cycling may be used, but not always. If fact, it was almost always not.

94now is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-01-2011, 11:08 AM
  #581
OverTheCap
Registered User
 
OverTheCap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 10,044
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
I kind of feel like some of that is a little misleading...Jagr carried guys like Straka and Nylander to some extent, it's more an impressive comment on how good Jagr was than saying Nylander and Straka were that much more talented than some guys on the Rangers are now. Like I'd say Richards is quite a bit better than Nylander, he just doesn't have Jagr playing like one of the best players in the league to help inflate his stats, and I think Gaborik is a better offensive player than Straka is by himself by a long shot.

The difference is mainly Jagr, though Shanny provided some great secondary scoring for that year.
I agree with you on Nylander, his best seasons were when he played with Jagr, but Straka is a talented guy in his own right. He put up 95 points playing with Kovalev and Lang in 2001, no easy feat in the dead puck era. I think Richards and Gaborik at this point in their careers are better than Straka was when he was a Ranger, but we don't have a left winger that comes close to what Straka provided for this team.


Now on to last night's game. I think splitting up Richards and Gabby makes a huge difference and gives us more balance in our top 6. Dubi and Cally are playing their best hockey with Richards at center, and they don't have to dump and chase as much as they did before. Gaborik still looks great, but I have my doubts that Wolski and Stepan will stick on that line. Wolski has to play every game like he did last night. Stepan has to get back to playing like he did in Wisconsin and concentrate on his passing game.

OverTheCap is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-01-2011, 11:13 AM
  #582
NYR Sting
Heart and Soul
 
NYR Sting's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 9,506
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
I agree with you on Nylander, his best seasons were when he played with Jagr, but Straka is a talented guy in his own right. He put up 95 points playing with Kovalev and Lang in 2001, no easy feat in the dead puck era. I think Richards and Gaborik at this point in their careers are better than Straka was when he was a Ranger, but we don't have a left winger that comes close to what Straka provided for this team.
Not to take anything away from Straka, who was a very good and likeable player (I was always a big fan), but in that 2001 season, Kovalev was incredible. A legitimate MVP contender that year. Yes, he played on a great PP unit with legends, but that was Kovalev at his best. That's the season that really makes him such a frustrating player, because you could see just how good he was when he applied himself.

Quote:
Now on to last night's game. I think splitting up Richards and Gabby makes a huge difference and gives us more balance in our top 6. Dubi and Cally are playing their best hockey with Richards at center, and they don't have to dump and chase as much as they did before. Gaborik still looks great, but I have my doubts that Wolski and Stepan will stick on that line. Wolski has to play every game like he did last night. Stepan has to get back to playing like he did in Wisconsin and concentrate on his passing game.
Yep. Splitting them up is great, but it isn't really up to Richards or Gaborik to see if that can be a successful strategy. It's up to whoever plays on Gaborik's line, whether it is Stepan, Christensen, Wolski, Anisimov, or anyone else.

NYR Sting is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-01-2011, 11:27 AM
  #583
Levitate
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 21,701
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
I agree with you on Nylander, his best seasons were when he played with Jagr, but Straka is a talented guy in his own right. He put up 95 points playing with Kovalev and Lang in 2001, no easy feat in the dead puck era. I think Richards and Gaborik at this point in their careers are better than Straka was when he was a Ranger, but we don't have a left winger that comes close to what Straka provided for this team.
That was also when Kovalev and Lang were fantastic players in their own rights as well...not like they were scrubs or something back then.

I do agree that the Rangers don't have a LW as good as Straka was with the Rangers

Levitate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-06-2011, 10:04 AM
  #584
sousuffer
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 255
vCash: 500
I think it mostly had to do with the road trip. When the Prudential Center opened, a very strong Devils team looked like crap until a few games after they returned. Hell, even the Yankees, when they opened the season in Japan the first time (maybe around 2005?), came back and had a subpar beginning to the season. I think it simply comes down to the fact that we are now seeing the team play the way it is capable of since they aren't jumping in planes for 6 hours every other day.

sousuffer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2011, 09:28 AM
  #585
haohmaru
boomshakalaka
 
haohmaru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Fleming Island, Fl
Country: United States
Posts: 6,731
vCash: 500
Awfully quiet in here now...

haohmaru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2011, 09:33 AM
  #586
broadwayblue
Registered User
 
broadwayblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 16,402
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
Awfully quiet in here now...
Don't worry, I'm sure a two game losing streak is just around the corner. lol

broadwayblue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2011, 10:00 AM
  #587
Moosehead777
Registered User
 
Moosehead777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: 1984
Country: United States
Posts: 1,141
vCash: 500
So long as the team wins, accepting there will be a loss here and there, i dont complain.

LETS GO RANGERSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Moosehead777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2011, 10:30 AM
  #588
Puckface NYR*
R.I.P. Boogyman
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Long Island
Posts: 8,167
vCash: 500
The team needed time to gel. You can't just bring in new pieces and expect things to run smoothly.

Puckface NYR* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2011, 10:43 AM
  #589
haveandare
Registered User
 
haveandare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 8,831
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
No, if that was the case, no wrap arounds would be attempted. Just don't tell me Frolov did it on his own.
Cycling is not a dump-and-chase outcome or continuation. It may be, but it is not given. Forecheck is what Torts used after puck was surrendered after being dumped in. After you obtain the puck by hitting Ds hard many things could be done. Wrap around just one of them. Passing to the point and shooting from there for loose change pick up at the slot could be another. Cycling may be used, but not always. If fact, it was almost always not.
Again, I think we're confusing what the strategy is with what the outcome of trying to implement it is. I highly doubt that Torts is telling them to forecheck and get the puck back so that they can fail at a wraparound and then give up possession. My point is that its always the strategy to cycle the puck in the zone after they get it on the forecheck. Whether they do it or not isn't, in my opinion, a decree from the coach, rather it depends on how they are playing.

haveandare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2011, 10:51 AM
  #590
MSG the place to be*
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,783
vCash: 500
The only problems I have with Torts is using Gaborik up high on the 5 on 3 and not having Avery on the team from the get go.

Everything else I have loved.

MSG the place to be* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2011, 11:46 AM
  #591
truebluegoalie
Registered User
 
truebluegoalie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,488
vCash: 500
I still don't like torts, doesn't matter how much they win.

But I love the people who said that 7 games is too small a sample size to judge him are now singing his praises based on an even smaller sample size. A sample size which included a game in which a 4 goal lead was blown and another where a 3 goal lead was almost blown. I still don't think this team is playing as well as it could, just like on the road trip the wins on this homestand could have easily gone the other way. I also will continue to maintain that this team CAN and has scored most of their goals on the rush. So continuing to see them dumping the puck in when on the pp is damn annoying and still falls on the coach.

truebluegoalie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2011, 04:12 PM
  #592
PromNite
This is awkward...
 
PromNite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Tampa, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 9,415
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to PromNite
Quote:
Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
Awfully quiet in here now...
Shhhh! Don't tempt the bear!

__________________


Adam Tensta's from the 163
PromNite is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2011, 04:15 PM
  #593
mullichicken25
Registered User
 
mullichicken25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: NJ
Posts: 2,603
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PromNite View Post
Shhhh! Don't tempt the bear!
you wouldn't want to cause a rukus

mullichicken25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2011, 04:19 PM
  #594
HockeyBurd*
 
HockeyBurd*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,579
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
Don't worry, I'm sure a two game losing streak is just around the corner. lol
Right around the same time that Gaborik gets injured and the "Gaborik is not elite" thread comes to life.

HockeyBurd* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2011, 04:55 PM
  #595
Jumbo*
TARGET: ACQUIRED
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 16,720
vCash: 500
The torts haters all go hiding when the team is playing good. 1 point away from the "powerhouse" flyers.

Jumbo* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2011, 05:40 PM
  #596
nyr2k2
Can't Beat Him
 
nyr2k2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Country: United States
Posts: 24,831
vCash: 50
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike1983 View Post
The torts haters all go hiding when the team is playing good. 1 point away from the "powerhouse" flyers.
I'm a Torts "hater" and I'm still here.

nyr2k2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2011, 05:45 PM
  #597
gluvhand
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Rockland County
Country: Greece
Posts: 966
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
I'm a Torts "hater" and I'm still here.
I'm here as well.

gluvhand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2011, 06:54 PM
  #598
Florida Ranger
Bring back Torts!
 
Florida Ranger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Tampa, FLA
Country: United States
Posts: 6,097
vCash: 500
I like when they're silent.

Florida Ranger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2011, 07:01 PM
  #599
Stugots
Kolo, Kolo Kolo!
 
Stugots's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 6,436
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by truebluegoalie View Post
I still don't like torts, doesn't matter how much they win.

But I love the people who said that 7 games is too small a sample size to judge him are now singing his praises based on an even smaller sample size. A sample size which included a game in which a 4 goal lead was blown and another where a 3 goal lead was almost blown. I still don't think this team is playing as well as it could, just like on the road trip the wins on this homestand could have easily gone the other way. I also will continue to maintain that this team CAN and has scored most of their goals on the rush. So continuing to see them dumping the puck in when on the pp is damn annoying and still falls on the coach.
I didn't see the 1st unit dump and chase once last night- and if they did it happened infrequently. The only time I saw dump and chase was in the waning seconds of our powerplays when the lesser skilled guys were out there.

Stugots is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-07-2011, 07:06 PM
  #600
Ribban
Registered User
 
Ribban's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: USA
Country: Sweden
Posts: 1,511
vCash: 500
Out of curiosity, when was the last time the Rangers had a high scoring team?

Ribban is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:30 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.