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Old
11-07-2011, 02:41 PM
  #26
WeekendAtBernies
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Originally Posted by flyersfan018 View Post
Yea, you think so highly of a 20 year old with amazing potential that you're willing to just trade him like that. Makes perfect sense to me now.
Yes... I would be willing to trade him for a young defensive prospect of equal potential.

If that doesn't make sense to you, maybe you should get your head examined.

Defense = position of weakness for Flyers going forward
Forward = position of strength for Flyers going forward

If I can trade a future star center for a future star #1 defenseman, given the above information, I'd do it.

It has nothing to do w/ whether or not I believe in Schenn, it has to do w/ improving the TEAM... the team that I root for, the Flyers. No individual player is above the team.

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11-07-2011, 02:41 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by chsb View Post
You easily discard the training camp in the process where Schenn was sent down for reason.

I have no doubt that Schenn has potential but he has not proven anything at the NHL level just yet.
AHL is AHL where players have great careers but some never graduate at the following level.

I don't pretend that it is Schenn's case, but I have to admit that he is not a complete player just yet....seasoning could possibly be necessary.
He had an injured shoulder, which is why he was sent to the AHL. Jesus christ.

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11-07-2011, 02:44 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Sh0otnSc0re View Post
He had an injured shoulder, which is why he was sent to the AHL. Jesus christ.
You shouldn't even waste your breath... it's obvious the guy you are responding to is an ignorant fairweather fan... didn't even know Schenn was hurt.

He also doesn't apparently understand how much having Schenn down there helped our cap situation...

Not even worth your time.

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11-07-2011, 02:52 PM
  #29
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The only way that the Flyers would even consider trading Schenn is if it meant someone like Marc Staal or someone of that stature comes back the other way. There's no way the Flyers trade the centerpiece of the Mike Richards deal unless something phenomenal comes back the other way.

And that means more than a potential UFA like Weber or Suter, unless both have long term deals in place. No long term deal, no Schenn.

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11-07-2011, 02:53 PM
  #30
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Has trading Schenn for Schenn already been suggested?

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11-07-2011, 02:55 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
The only way that the Flyers would even consider trading Schenn is if it meant someone like Marc Staal or someone of that stature comes back the other way. There's no way the Flyers trade the centerpiece of the Mike Richards deal unless something phenomenal comes back the other way.

And that means more than a potential UFA like Weber or Suter, unless both have long term deals in place. No long term deal, no Schenn.
So just to clarify...

Brayden Schenn for Shea Weber straight up tomorrow. Forget about the cap for right now.

No window to negotiate a new contract w/ Weber before the trade... do you do it?

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11-07-2011, 02:55 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
The only way that the Flyers would even consider trading Schenn is if it meant someone like Marc Staal or someone of that stature comes back the other way. There's no way the Flyers trade the centerpiece of the Mike Richards deal unless something phenomenal comes back the other way.

And that means more than a potential UFA like Weber or Suter, unless both have long term deals in place. No long term deal, no Schenn.
Weber is RFA, not UFA.

You wouldn't trade Schenn + Carle for Weber? With this organization's track record, I wouldn't think twice about that deal. You get this season and next season guaranteed, and I have full confidence they would get a long-term deal done.

Of course, it would take more than Schenn to get Weber. And there are cap issues. But in terms of moving Schenn for Weber--I think its a no-brainer.

Edit: Sandlansd beat me to the point.

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11-07-2011, 02:57 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Dream Big View Post
Has trading Schenn for Schenn already been suggested?
Yes... i think most here agree Brayden > Luke and we would not be open to this.

Plus I think it'd be pretty cruel to do it. Brothers obviously have to dream of playing on the same team and to trade them for each other is just wrong.

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11-07-2011, 03:09 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by chsb View Post
Really???

10 C Brayden Schenn 4 0 0 0 -5
14 C Sean Couturier 14 5 3 8 9

As far as I am concerned, Couturier does not even belong in the same sentence as Schenn right now, specially when you take into account the fact that he plays 4th line while Schenn was playing 2nd-3rd line in his short stint.

Schenn might have been NHL ready according to some, but he is nowhere as ready as Couturier is.
Small. Sample. Size.

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11-07-2011, 03:15 PM
  #35
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It's just sad how some keep wanting to trade him. Give him a full season or two then make judgment. Also, I'm curious, would him being injured right now actually constantly lower his cap like when he was in the AHL?

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11-07-2011, 03:26 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
Yes... i think most here agree Brayden > Luke and we would not be open to this.

Plus I think it'd be pretty cruel to do it. Brothers obviously have to dream of playing on the same team and to trade them for each other is just wrong.

i honestly thought luke was a better prospect from what ive read.

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11-07-2011, 03:30 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
It's just sad how some keep wanting to trade him. Give him a full season or two then make judgment. Also, I'm curious, would him being injured right now actually constantly lower his cap like when he was in the AHL?
See, that's the thing though. Right now, Schenn's value is high. And if he develops according to expectation, his value will remain that way. But if you take the wait and see approach and he doesn't turn out as expected, it's not like someone's going to give you excellent value for him. You're going to lose a lot.

That's why I never get it when people make these statements about giving people a full season and then seeing... it makes no sense. You see what you can get for him now, look @ whether it's good value or not and then you make a decision which is worth more to your team long term, Schenn or what you can trade him for, considering the current strengths and weaknesses of the team.


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11-07-2011, 03:41 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
See, that's the thing though. Right now, Schenn's value is high. And if he develops according to expectation, his value will remain that way. But if you take the wait and see approach and he doesn't turn out as expected, it's not like someone's going to give you excellent value for him. You're going to lose a lot.

That's why I never get it when people make these statements about giving people a full season and then seeing... it makes no sense. You see what you can get for him now, look @ whether it's good value or not and then you make a decision which is worth more to your team long term, Schenn or what you can trade him for, considering the current strengths and weaknesses of the team.
Are you for real? We have no reason to trade Schenn. You act like he's a stalled prospect and we better trade him now while he has any remaining value. With your logic teams should trade their top prospects immediately because they may not develop as expected. Also forward may be a strength, but Schenn at his cap hit is a tremendous value going forward. I'm not sure he is the first player we should trade so we can earn the right to pay $7M+ for a defenseman.

Let's see what this blue line with a healthy Pronger can do before we talk about trading our blue chip prospect.

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11-07-2011, 03:49 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
See, that's the thing though. Right now, Schenn's value is high. And if he develops according to expectation, his value will remain that way. But if you take the wait and see approach and he doesn't turn out as expected, it's not like someone's going to give you excellent value for him. You're going to lose a lot.

That's why I never get it when people make these statements about giving people a full season and then seeing... it makes no sense. You see what you can get for him now, look @ whether it's good value or not and then you make a decision which is worth more to your team long term, Schenn or what you can trade him for, considering the current strengths and weaknesses of the team.

Geez, using this theory we should have got rid of Giroux while we could when he was 4 games into his NHL career.

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11-07-2011, 03:55 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
So just to clarify...

Brayden Schenn for Shea Weber straight up tomorrow. Forget about the cap for right now.

No window to negotiate a new contract w/ Weber before the trade... do you do it?
No. As long as there isn't a window to negotiate, then not a chance. I'm real hesitant on dealing Schenn because he really has the potential to be a game breaker. And game breakers are really tough to come by. Yes, Giroux is a game breaker. However, we don't know if Couturier is a game breaker yet and we also don't know if JVR is a game breaker yet.

With regards to the future, personally, I'd rather a pairing of JVR - Schenn; Simmonds - Giroux; Couturier - Voracek. That's three very fine pairings for the future and three very solid lines to build around.

I think the Flyers have other assets available to use in a trade other than Schenn. If the Flyers look to move Schenn, the only defenseman I'd want would be Doughty. I wouldn't deal Schenn in a package for either Weber or Suter, especially when they are pending free agents.

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11-07-2011, 03:55 PM
  #41
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Let's trade arguably the best prospect in the NHL because he might not turn out.


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11-07-2011, 04:59 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Are you for real? We have no reason to trade Schenn. You act like he's a stalled prospect and we better trade him now while he has any remaining value. With your logic teams should trade their top prospects immediately because they may not develop as expected. Also forward may be a strength, but Schenn at his cap hit is a tremendous value going forward. I'm not sure he is the first player we should trade so we can earn the right to pay $7M+ for a defenseman.

Let's see what this blue line with a healthy Pronger can do before we talk about trading our blue chip prospect.
Jesus christ people are dense.

I'm not treating Schenn like a stalled prospect. I'm saying if someone of equal value or greater value, only at DEFENSE, was offered for him, you'd have to think about it and evaluate how it affects your team. Given the relative strength @ forward and the lack of a good young defenseman to take over after Timonen leaves, I'd be willing to move Schenn for a true #1 defenseman.

You seriously wouldn't trade Schenn for Weber? Forgetting about the cap for the moment? Because if you wouldn't do that deal, you should seek help.

You wouldn't consider trading Schenn for Adam Larsson? For Cam Fowler? For Doughty? For Yandle? For OEL?

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11-07-2011, 05:31 PM
  #43
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I would trade other assets before even mentioning his name. And no I don't think that it is needed for us to get a d-man like that at least not until next offseason.

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11-07-2011, 05:41 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
Yes... I would be willing to trade him for a young defensive prospect of equal potential.

If that doesn't make sense to you, maybe you should get your head examined.

Defense = position of weakness for Flyers going forward
Forward = position of strength for Flyers going forward

If I can trade a future star center for a future star #1 defenseman, given the above information, I'd do it.

It has nothing to do w/ whether or not I believe in Schenn, it has to do w/ improving the TEAM... the team that I root for, the Flyers. No individual player is above the team.
Considering NO ONE else wants Schenn traded, I'd say you need your head examined. It's unbelievable you would trade one of the best prospects around with a snap of your finger. Thank God you are not a general manger.

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11-07-2011, 06:13 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by flyersfan018 View Post
Considering NO ONE else wants Schenn traded, I'd say you need your head examined. It's unbelievable you would trade one of the best prospects around with a snap of your finger. Thank God you are not a general manger.
I don't want Schenn traded. I didn't say I'd snap my fingers and trade him.

I consider him one of the best prospects in the league.

But I would trade one of the best prospects around after careful consideration (not a snap of the fingers) if I got another one of the best prospects around, but one who plays defense instead of center.

Dunno what's so hard for you to understand. Brayden Schenn isn't the next Crosby. He has a ton of talent and is probably going to be a #1C in this league for a long, long time. I like him a lot, I'm perfectly happy keeping him on our team, but if he could be traded straight up for Adam Larsson, I'd definitely do it. Adam Larsson is just as good, if not better than Schenn as a prospect. Or if he could get me another one of the top defensive prospects like OEL, I'd consider it.

I don't know how you could just say "no" 100% when it comes to that type of deal. I know offense is really, really sexy, but defense wins championships, specifically shutdown #1 defensemen like I'm talking about. And we already have a ton of offense on this team.

The only true "need" this team has is for a young #1 caliber defenseman, and you need to give quality to get quality... you're not going to get a legit #1 for Voracek and some throw ins. It takes a prospect like Schenn to get another top notch prospect.

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11-07-2011, 06:14 PM
  #46
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This thread hurts the brain...

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11-07-2011, 07:19 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
I don't want Schenn traded. I didn't say I'd snap my fingers and trade him.

I consider him one of the best prospects in the league.

But I would trade one of the best prospects around after careful consideration (not a snap of the fingers) if I got another one of the best prospects around, but one who plays defense instead of center.

Dunno what's so hard for you to understand. Brayden Schenn isn't the next Crosby. He has a ton of talent and is probably going to be a #1C in this league for a long, long time. I like him a lot, I'm perfectly happy keeping him on our team, but if he could be traded straight up for Adam Larsson, I'd definitely do it. Adam Larsson is just as good, if not better than Schenn as a prospect. Or if he could get me another one of the top defensive prospects like OEL, I'd consider it.

I don't know how you could just say "no" 100% when it comes to that type of deal. I know offense is really, really sexy, but defense wins championships, specifically shutdown #1 defensemen like I'm talking about. And we already have a ton of offense on this team.

The only true "need" this team has is for a young #1 caliber defenseman, and you need to give quality to get quality... you're not going to get a legit #1 for Voracek and some throw ins. It takes a prospect like Schenn to get another top notch prospect.
So let me get this straight. Trading an unproven prospect for another unproven prospect is a great idea now?

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11-07-2011, 07:35 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by sandlansd View Post
Jesus christ people are dense.

I'm not treating Schenn like a stalled prospect. I'm saying if someone of equal value or greater value, only at DEFENSE, was offered for him, you'd have to think about it and evaluate how it affects your team. Given the relative strength @ forward and the lack of a good young defenseman to take over after Timonen leaves, I'd be willing to move Schenn for a true #1 defenseman.

You seriously wouldn't trade Schenn for Weber? Forgetting about the cap for the moment? Because if you wouldn't do that deal, you should seek help.

You wouldn't consider trading Schenn for Adam Larsson? For Cam Fowler? For Doughty? For Yandle? For OEL?
Except you said nothing of the kind in the post of yours that I quoted. You were specifically talking about trading him because he may not pan out. You don't even know what you posted and you're calling me dense.

I wouldn't move anyone not named Jody Shelley when we're 14 games into the season, 3 points out of first in the East, and we're not even playing with a healthy lineup.

There's nothing remotely realistic or reasonable about your trade proposal. Teams don't make blockbusters at this point unless they are sinking fast and need a shakeup.

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11-08-2011, 05:33 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
Except you said nothing of the kind in the post of yours that I quoted. You were specifically talking about trading him because he may not pan out. You don't even know what you posted and you're calling me dense.

The post of mine that you quoted ended with the following statement regarding Schenn:

"You see what you can get for him now, look @ whether it's good value or not and then you make a decision which is worth more to your team long term, Schenn or what you can trade him for, considering the current strengths and weaknesses of the team."

That seems to imply that you only trade Schenn if you get something of more value (ie. a young #1 defenseman) in return. That's what I've been saying all along. Not that Schenn needs to be traded, not that I want to dump him, not that he's going to be a bust, but if you can get a young #1 defenseman that would likely be more valuable to this team (both now and in the long-term) than Schenn, then you need to think long and hard about it.

Like I said, if you actually read what I wrote, it would be kind of obvious to you.


I wouldn't move anyone not named Jody Shelley when we're 14 games into the season, 3 points out of first in the East, and we're not even playing with a healthy lineup.

Really? Brayden Schenn hasn't been a part of the lineup for any of the games where we've been successful. So if you're seriously making the argument that trading him would affect the chemistry of the team, I'm pretty sure you're taking an indefensible position.

There's nothing remotely realistic or reasonable about your trade proposal. Teams don't make blockbusters at this point unless they are sinking fast and need a shakeup.

As I said above, I don't really consider the trading of an asset that has yet to make a significant impact on the big club to be a huge shake-up trade or a "blockbuster".

That being said, I think that perhaps our best case scenario for this season would be to trade Voracek for a defensive prospect or a high pick in the upcoming draft, which is stocked with elite caliber defensemen.
And just so we're clear one last time, I'm perfectly fine keeping Brayden Schenn. In fact, I suspect that via the trade market, we'd find he's more valuable to us than anyone we could acquire for him because teams don't usually trade young #1 defensemen. But if an offensively challenged team did offer a young potential #1 D w/ equal potential to Schenn in a one for one swap, or with just some picks to balance it out, I'd be willing to consider it.

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11-08-2011, 08:15 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by chsb View Post
You easily discard the training camp in the process where Schenn was sent down for reason.

I have no doubt that Schenn has potential but he has not proven anything at the NHL level just yet.
AHL is AHL where players have great careers but some never graduate at the following level.

I don't pretend that it is Schenn's case, but I have to admit that he is not a complete player just yet....seasoning could possibly be necessary.
Schenn was sent down because if he didn't make the team to start the season or didn't play all 82 games which taking him out in the beginning of the season would do his cap hit went down significantly like from 3 something to 1.6 mil.

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Quote:
Publicly, the Flyers suggested Schenn started in the minors so he could recover from a shoulder injury, but the $1.75 million they saved off the salary cap (Schenn’s contract had a bonus structure where his cap hit would drop if he played one game in the AHL) was hard to ignore.
http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...he-salary-cap/

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