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Some comments by Lombardi

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Old
11-08-2011, 10:05 AM
  #1
BigBrown
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Some comments by Lombardi

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-...7352534.column

Quote:
"I didn't want to rush to judgment on some of these efforts, which we knew were below standard, given what they had been through," he said. "Some of the things here I've been a little more lenient."

"It's a matter of getting our competitiveness and our emotion where it needs to be," he said. "If we come out and play where we did [Saturday] or give that type of effort, a lot of these other things will fall into place.

"That said, obviously we're not getting some production from some key sources."
Reading the article as a whole (click the link), it seems to me like Lombardi is cutting them some slack after the Europe trip, which is fair, but his patience won't last forever and he's gonna want to see some results soon or changes will be made.

Update: Some more comments:

http://lakingsinsider.com/2011/11/08...y-season-skid/


Last edited by BigBrown: 11-08-2011 at 02:51 PM.
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11-08-2011, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by BigBrown View Post
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-...7352534.column



Reading the article as a whole (click the link), it seems to me like Lombardi is cutting them some slack after the Europe trip, which is fair, but his patience won't last forever and he's gonna want to see some results soon or changes will be made.

If we fall two or more games below .500, I think we're going to see some firings or a trade or two.

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11-08-2011, 10:46 AM
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I'm glad to see Dean speak out. As stated above, I think that he won't be giving them a pass for very long. This team needs a shake up. I'm not one to normally freak out, but this team is WAY better than they are playing. I'm starting to dread watching the games. Not because of the losing, but because of the lack of caring. This isn't the Kings teams of the mid to late '00s, but they are sure playing like it is. No excuses. I'd fire Murray and see if that sparks them. If not, time for some trades.

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11-08-2011, 11:05 AM
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The game against Pittsburgh was a good, consistent effort. Last night the 1st period was great, then they went back to taking stupid penalties (Parse again among others) that just killed the momentum and their offensive flow.

Stay out of the box. Anyone committing a stick foul penalty in the opposition's zone or in center ice needs to be scratched the next game. It is just a lack of discipline on the players' part.

Quick has been great. The ship can be righted.

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11-08-2011, 11:13 AM
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H..He...He... He spoke

DL I think will give this some time, but not a lot of time. I'm sure he has internal expectations of where he believes the team should be at various points in the season. Considering we have been healthy, there's no reason for those expectations to not be met, and if they aren't it will likely mean a firing. We don't have a lot of cap room to swing a significant trade, unless we can get someone to take Penner which I doubt. If you can't do a tarde, it pretty much leaves only one other option, fire Terry Murray.

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Old
11-08-2011, 11:19 AM
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60 minutes of effort has been the problem. There are other micromanagement issues at play, but the small things become even smaller if players are giving a consistent, solid effort for entire games.

Something needs to be done to make this happen. Break the game down into 5 or 10 minute chunks; constant reminders on the bench; players talking to teammates about it. Something. Getting beat is fine, its when you lose as a consequence of less than full effort that it isn't acceptable. The hardest thing lately is we've all seen what this team can do when they are playing with a purpose. We haven't seen that team for a while.

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11-08-2011, 11:20 AM
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I think if we drop below .500 and stay there for a week or so TM is gone. But I think John Stevens replaces him

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11-08-2011, 11:24 AM
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I'm glad Lombardi is finally speaking out, but I hope he doesn't give them too much time before he drops the hammer. The season and our playoffs hops are not lost yet, so the sooner he steps in to try and fix the problem, the sooner we can get back to where we are supposed to be.

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Old
11-08-2011, 11:25 AM
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Dean Lombardi IS the problem.

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11-08-2011, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by tomd View Post
Dean Lombardi IS the problem.
Yep, sure is, he's the reason why Williams turns the puck over, and why the Kings can't, won't play 60 minutes,

Hell he's the reason the bounce happened in Colorado and why we didn't get the goal in Pittsburgh...

He's also the reason for war, feast, and famine.

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11-08-2011, 11:30 AM
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Murray has 6 more games to get this turned around. 20 games is the point where something needs to be done if the Kings continue to have an anemic 5-on-5 offense.

If the Kings go 2-4 (or worse) in the next 6, I could see Murray gone. They would then be 8-9-3 and out of the playoffs.

Things could get intersting if AEG puts pressure on Lombardi. Will Lombardi risk his own job and hang on to Murray?

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11-08-2011, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
Yep, sure is, he's the reason why Williams turns the puck over, and why the Kings can't, won't play 60 minutes,

Hell he's the reason the bounce happened in Colorado and why we didn't get the goal in Pittsburgh...

He's also the reason for war, feast, and famine.
The core of the team (Kopitar, Quick, and Brown) were drafted under the old regime.

DL has been at the helm for FIVE years and what has he added to that core? Almost nothing.

The players everyone complains about were brought in by DL. Doesn't he ultimately bear the responsibility for the failure that is this team? If not, why not????

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11-08-2011, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomd View Post
The core of the team (Kopitar, Quick, and Brown) were drafted under the old regime.

DL has been at the helm for FIVE years and what has he added to that core? Almost nothing.
Johnson, Doughty, Richards... yup, nothing.

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11-08-2011, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomd View Post
The core of the team (Kopitar, Quick, and Brown) were drafted under the old regime.

DL has been at the helm for FIVE years and what has he added to that core? Almost nothing.

The players everyone complains about were brought in by DL. Doesn't he ultimately bear the responsibility for the failure that is this team? If not, why not????
LOL like the guy above,

Johnson, Doughty, Richards, Williams, Gagne, Bernier, Voynov, Lotkionov, Greene, Scuderi, Mitchell,

Yea he hasn't brought anyone in...

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11-08-2011, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Bandit View Post
Johnson, Doughty, Richards... yup, nothing.
Johnson? the jury is still out despite the "JMFJ" tag early on. One even strength point this year and he continues to be a minus player.

Doughty? When you are picking 2nd overall it is hard to screw it up (although DL had no problem screwing up a 4th overall pick so nothing is impossible). But so far I have seen one good year from Doughty and this is his fourth season...at $7mm per.

Richards? 5 even strength points and 1 goal in the last 13 games. Talented? yes. But it was the wrong trade at the wrong time. His talent is totally wasted on this team.

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11-08-2011, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomd View Post
The core of the team (Kopitar, Quick, and Brown) were drafted under the old regime.

DL has been at the helm for FIVE years and what has he added to that core? Almost nothing.

The players everyone complains about were brought in by DL. Doesn't he ultimately bear the responsibility for the failure that is this team? If not, why not????
Define failure. I will remind you that the first year the team made the playoffs it was judged by most to be one year ahead of schedule. Last year they make the playoffs and get bumped from the first round without Kopitar in the lineup, but give a good accounting of themselves.

This season they are performing below expectations, but it's been 14 games.

Sorry tomd, but you sound like someone that is still bitter over the DT firing.

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11-08-2011, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by sjmay View Post
LOL like the guy above,

Johnson, Doughty, Richards, Williams, Gagne, Bernier, Voynov, Lotkionov, Greene, Scuderi, Mitchell,

Yea he hasn't brought anyone in...
I've discussed the first three.

Williams and Gagne? They are supposed to be the "core" that DL talked about for the next 5-10 years? Really???

Bernier...his next win will be his first this year. Technically, DL would admit that this was an Al Murray pick anyway since he has just been hired prior to the draft.

Voynov and Loktionov? why are they buried in the minors...still???

Greene, Scuderi, Mitchell...not great, not terrible. All three are overpaid though.

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11-08-2011, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomd View Post
The core of the team (Kopitar, Quick, and Brown) were drafted under the old regime.

DL has been at the helm for FIVE years and what has he added to that core? Almost nothing.

The players everyone complains about were brought in by DL. Doesn't he ultimately bear the responsibility for the failure that is this team? If not, why not????
One thing that I think is ignored by the "old regime" mentality is development.

It's one thing to draft a guy, it's another to develop him properly. Of all the goalies that Dave Taylor's crew drafted, only two panned out to play more than games were Jamie Storr and Christobel Huet. And Huet did much of it after Taylor traded him away. Taylor professed teams could find elite goalies in later rounds (which is true) but his legacy features the likes of Storr, Steve Valiquette, Matthew Yeats, Alexei Volkov, Jean-Francois Nogues, Cory Campbell, Carl Grahn, Nathan Marsters, Sebastian Laplante, Huet, Terry Denike, Matt Zaba, Ryan Munce, Yataka Fukufuji, Danny Taylor and Quick being drafted.

Of those 16 goalies, only 3 ever played more than 41 games (more than half a season) in one year for any NHL team. Storr did it twice (42 and 45 games for LA) and Huet did it three times (best was 48 games). Really though, neither was ever a long-term starting option in the NHL.

The lone goalie ever drafted by Taylor's regime who has thus far emerged as a legitimate NHL starting goaltender is Quick, and he was also the lone one developed almost completely under DL's tenure. Given DL's proven ability in developing elite talent between the pipes in San Jose, I doubt it's just a coincidence.

After that you have Brown and Kopitar left from your argument. So what if they were draft under the previous regime? Whenever there is a turnover in the GM chair, the new GM always has something to benefit from that was left over. In Winnipeg, they got Kane, Bognosian, Enstrom, Ladd and Pavelec and Burmistrov for example, a heck of a lot more than what DT left Lombardi.

I'm not trying to throw Taylor under the bus here, but unless you think the core = Kopitar, Brown and Quick, you are way off in saying DL hasn't added anything to the core.

Maybe go compare our defense from 2005 to now and see some of what DL has done.

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11-08-2011, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by tomd View Post
Johnson? the jury is still out despite the "JMFJ" tag early on. One even strength point this year and he continues to be a minus player.

Doughty? When you are picking 2nd overall it is hard to screw it up (although DL had no problem screwing up a 4th overall pick so nothing is impossible). But so far I have seen one good year from Doughty and this is his fourth season...at $7mm per.

Richards? 5 even strength points and 1 goal in the last 13 games. Talented? yes. But it was the wrong trade at the wrong time. His talent is totally wasted on this team.
So you pick apart the guys that don't support your position and ignore the ones that do, got it. Cause, ya know, apparently even strength points are the only ones that matter. How many even strength points does the captain have? How many goals? One less than Jack Johnson, actually. Does he suck too? No of course not, because he wasn't brought in by Lombardi and it doesn't support your position.

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11-08-2011, 11:46 AM
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Define failure. I will remind you that the first year the team made the playoffs it was judged by most to be one year ahead of schedule. Last year they make the playoffs and get bumped from the first round without Kopitar in the lineup, but give a good accounting of themselves.

This season they are performing below expectations, but it's been 14 games.

Sorry tomd, but you sound like someone that is still bitter over the DT firing.
Didn't like DT at all (although he was just a puppet for AEG).

This team is not performing below expectations...this IS HOW GOOD THEY ARE. This team is closer to the black hole that DL talked about when he arrived than the SC.

The top 6 is really a top 3 or 4. The bottom 6 doesn't exist. The defense is terribly inconsistent. That may not be failure but it is hard to say it is a success.

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11-08-2011, 11:49 AM
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So you pick apart the guys that don't support your position and ignore the ones that do, got it. Cause, ya know, apparently even strength points are the only ones that matter. How many even strength points does the captain have? How many goals? One less than Jack Johnson, actually. Does he suck too? No of course not, because he wasn't brought in by Lombardi and it doesn't support your position.
I am simply pointing out what DL has added in his five years here. Quick, Kopitar, and Brown were not among them. Since Brown is the captain, I would say he is part of the core. Other than that, I wouldn't be heartbroken to see Brown traded tomorrow.

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11-08-2011, 11:54 AM
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I've discussed the first three.

Williams and Gagne? They are supposed to be the "core" that DL talked about for the next 5-10 years? Really???

Bernier...his next win will be his first this year. Technically, DL would admit that this was an Al Murray pick anyway since he has just been hired prior to the draft.

Voynov and Loktionov? why are they buried in the minors...still???

Greene, Scuderi, Mitchell...not great, not terrible. All three are overpaid though.
You are out of your tree, But hey, you keep being a miserable hockey fan k?

So you want just the CORE players DL has brought in, while IGNORING the fact that it takes awhile for development, and you still don't know who will exactly pan out.

Doughty, Johnson, Bernier, Voynov, Lotkionov, Muzzin, Hickey, Jones, Zatkoff, Vey, Deslauriers, Kitsyn, Toffoli, Kozun, Forbort,

Obviously not everyone will pan out, but I am willing to bet dollars to donuts, that if Vey, Muzzin, and Toffoli turn out to be solid NHL players for the Kings, you would ***** and moan about Kitsyn and Kozun ffs.

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11-08-2011, 11:57 AM
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You are out of your tree, But hey, you keep being a miserable hockey fan k?

So you want just the CORE players DL has brought in, while IGNORING the fact that it takes awhile for development, and you still don't know who will exactly pan out.

Doughty, Johnson, Bernier, Voynov, Lotkionov, Muzzin, Hickey, Jones, Zatkoff, Vey, Deslauriers, Kitsyn, Toffoli, Kozun, Forbort,

Obviously not everyone will pan out, but I am willing to bet dollars to donuts, that if Vey, Muzzin, and Toffoli turn out to be solid NHL players for the Kings, you would ***** and moan about Kitsyn and Kozun ffs.
Five years into the DL experiment and of all the players you listed above only TWO are actually making a contribution to the team. Three if you want to count a backup goalie who hasn't won a game yet this year. That is certainly impressive...I'll have to rethink my position!!

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11-08-2011, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by tomd View Post
I am simply pointing out what DL has added in his five years here. Quick, Kopitar, and Brown were not among them. Since Brown is the captain, I would say he is part of the core. Other than that, I wouldn't be heartbroken to see Brown traded tomorrow.
Ok sure, Kopitar and Quick are the "core" and everyone else sucks. Dean Lombardi has added no talent to the team.

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11-08-2011, 12:01 PM
  #25
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Doughty? When you are picking 2nd overall it is hard to screw it up (although DL had no problem screwing up a 4th overall pick so nothing is impossible). But so far I have seen one good year from Doughty and this is his fourth season...at $7mm per.
Was Hickey a screw up? Sure. But if you want to go and deem Lombardi a draft screw up, you have to do the same for Taylor as well. Thus far Lombaradi on a whole has looked good draft wise, especially after the first round when most teams struggle. Taylor's drafting was pretty bad for the most part.

Starting in 1994, Taylor picks that panned out IMO ( guys who have played the equivalent of two full NHL seasons or 160 games or so) are Jamie Storr, Matt Johnson, Vitali Yachmenev, Aki Berg, Vladimir Tsyplakov, Eric Belanger, Josh Green, Joe Corvo, Olli Jokinen, Mathieu Biron, George Parros, Brian McGratton, Fratisek Kaberle, Lubomir Vishnovksy, Andreas lilja, Alexander Frolov, Christobel Huet, Mike Cammalleri, David Steckel, Denis Grebeshkov, Jeff Tambellini, Brian boyle, Dustin Brown, Jonathan Quick and Anze Kopitar.

That's 25 players, which actually seems impressive. When you look over the names though, it's pretty easy to see it isn't. Storr, Johnson, Yachmenev, Berg, Tsyplakov, Green, Biron, Parros, McGratton, Steckel, Grebeshkov, Tambellini and Boyle have all had career that have been largely defined as depth or role players. That means we have 12 players from 12 drafts, or one a year that did something that can be considered average or better.

Belanger was nice, but hardly a "core" player that you were wanting, and if Scuderi, Mitchell and Greene are "not great, not terrible" then the same would apply to Joe Corvo, Andreas Lilja and Frantisek Kaberle as well.

And since you seem to attest very high draft picks shouldn't count since they are so hard to scew up, Olli Jokinen, the 3rd overall pick in 1997, shouldn't count for Taylor either I guess, correct?

So that leaves Vishnovsky, Frolov, Huet, Cammalleri, Brown, Quick and Kopitar. As for my earlier post in this thread, i debate both Huet and Quick, given Taylor's inabaility to develop goalies. The fact Huet blossomed after leaving LA and that QUick didn't do much until Taylor was let go attest to that.

So Taylor's biggest accomplishments in 12 drafts really boil down to Vishnovsky, Frolov, Cammy, Brown and Kopitar, the last of which never played a game under Taylor. We'll see where DL sits after 12 drafts but if that's all he has to show for himself after 12 years, I'd be mighty disappointed.

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