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11-07-2011, 05:56 PM
  #1
Bernie Parent 1974
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let the FCC know you want CSN Philly >>

on the DISH

the Terrestrial Loophole was closed in 2010, and Comcast's appeal rejected in June ..


http://www.fcc.gov/contact-us

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11-07-2011, 09:16 PM
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Bernie Parent 1974
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Court Upholds FCC Closing Of Terrestrial Exemption

Quote:
John Eggerton - Multichannel News - June 10, 2011
The U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. circuit has upheld the FCC's decision to drop the exemption of terrestrially-delivered program networks from the commission's program-access rules.
But it vacated the commission's finding that what qualified as "unfair methods of competition or unfair or deceptive acts or practices" in the satellite sphere necessarily qualified as unfair in terrestrial delivery.
The court upheld the FCC on all but that finding, which it threw out as arbitrary and capricious and remanded without prejudice back to the commission to take another crack at.......
more here:

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/art..._Exemption.php


Last edited by Bernie Parent 1974: 11-07-2011 at 09:28 PM.
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11-07-2011, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
Court Upholds FCC Closing Of Terrestrial Exemption


more here:

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/art..._Exemption.php
That's not up to date though, that's from June, is there anything more current? I'm pretty sure the case is still somewhat in limbo because it was remanded back to the FCC for further proceedings.

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11-07-2011, 10:56 PM
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Let the FCC know I want DirecTV's stupid dish off of my house!

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11-07-2011, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
on the DISH

the Terrestrial Loophole was closed in 2010, and Comcast's appeal rejected in June ..


http://www.fcc.gov/contact-us
What does this have to do with anything current? The FCC already made their ruling. Why petition them, what else are they going to do?

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11-07-2011, 11:26 PM
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So let me get this straight, you local guys can't watch the games unless you have Comcast?

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11-08-2011, 06:57 AM
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So does anyone have anything current on this or not? I'm pretty sure nothing is final yet.

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11-08-2011, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
So does anyone have anything current on this or not? I'm pretty sure nothing is final yet.
The last update was that they had to offer it up to em, but that doesn't mean Comcast isn't going to drag their feet. I can't see Comcast pushing too hard given their merger.

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11-08-2011, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
The last update was that they had to offer it up to em, but that doesn't mean Comcast isn't going to drag their feet. I can't see Comcast pushing too hard given their merger.
Did this come down from the FCC though? The DC Circuit in June sent it back to the FCC after reversing part of their original order and I haven't heard anything since then. As far as I can tell there is still a chance that the companies won't have to uplink the channels. I think it will be a while before anything official happens, hence no CSN on DTV yet.

Hopefully they do, but I wish DTV didn't drop all those other channels. Now even if Comcast has to uplink CSN I probably won't switch to DTV because I'd be missing out on other crap.

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11-08-2011, 09:34 AM
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My sentiments are pretty much in line with Protest. Comcast is anti-competitive and the class action lawsuit pretty much attests to this. Unfortunately, Comcast and Verizon the two tele-communication oligopolies in this state in particular are I think tops in PAC donations so it's pretty hard to break this nexus of collusion between the corp and the political establishment...but these days this is nothing new. Having said this even if Bernie is technically engaged in an act of law breaking..not all laws are just especially when one corp has cornered the market. It's a joke that local sportsfans are subject to this crap. I would be dumping Comcast in a second if satellite companies were allowed to um actually compete in a true market economy as opposed to a crony capitalist one...but as Holmgren would say..it is what it is..but I still don't have to like it and couldn't care less about Bernie's assymetrical warfare against Comcast. There are no rules in warfare...especially if they cater to or are made by the ones shooting at you first...


Last edited by FreshPerspective: 11-08-2011 at 09:53 AM. Reason: sp
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11-08-2011, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I'm going to give it a chance to see if it can survive in the wild.
Beef, thanks. The topic deserves discussion. It is a shame that, for whatever reason, the government has allowed such limited competition in the TV world. Sports is the last thing keeping people from living off free and reduced-priced web services for their viewing pleasure. Look at the recent DirecTV-Fox dispute. The only thing ALL of the companies -- networks and providers -- care about is money.

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11-08-2011, 09:49 AM
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Beef, thanks. The topic deserves discussion. It is a shame that, for whatever reason, the government has allowed such limited competition in the TV world. Sports is the last thing keeping people from living off free and reduced-priced web services for their viewing pleasure. Look at the recent DirecTV-Fox dispute. The only thing ALL of the companies -- networks and providers -- care about is money.
I actually canceled my cable last month after Comcast tried to raise my rate to 180 instead of the 140 they told me I'd get a week before. I use gamecenter for hockey and find any shows I want on Netflix or elsewhere. Paying that much for the 5 or so channels I watch is pointless.

My gripe is that when I signed up for that deal a year ago, they told me it would go up to 140ish...affirmed that right before the deal expired...and then I looked at my bill and saw they were trying to screw me.

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Old
11-08-2011, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I actually canceled my cable last month after Comcast tried to raise my rate to 180 instead of the 140 they told me I'd get a week before. I use gamecenter for hockey and find any shows I want on Netflix or elsewhere. Paying that much for the 5 or so channels I watch is pointless.

My gripe is that when I signed up for that deal a year ago, they told me it would go up to 140ish...affirmed that right before the deal expired...and then I looked at my Bill and saw they were trying to screw me.
I agree. It really is annoying because I don't watch much TV outside of sports, so I only need like 10 channels at the most.

If you want something just to have some live TV you could pick up an antenna. You usually get the local news channels and then a few random ones. I use it for my bedroom because I didn't want to pay for another room that I knew I wasn't going to spend much time watching TV in. All the channels are in HD.

I got an indoor one for $30 bucks, and I get about 10 channels. You might be able to get more with a more expensive one, or an outdoor one.

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11-08-2011, 10:07 AM
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Bernie Parent 1974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
So does anyone have anything current on this or not? I'm pretty sure nothing is final yet.
the FCC denied Comcast's appeal in June. I believe DISH Network have contacted the FCC complaining that Comcast is trying to charge an outrageously high fee for CSN Philly [one that is not in line with what they charge for the other CSNs nationwide, those CSNs can't be withheld from the Dishes, as they are not part of the loophole]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CTFLYERSFAN View Post
So let me get this straight, you local guys can't watch the games unless you have Comcast?
correct. ridiculous, isn't it ? Comcast is dragging their feet in this as long as they can ... been doing so since 1992 - yes, nearly 20 years !!

if you have the DISH and are in Philly = no Flyers games on the Dish.

unless you use the 'Anti-Loophole Loophole', as described earlier

Quote:
Originally Posted by six sigma View Post
Then I guess I still won't get the home feeds? Because I live all the way across the country and still get to hear JJ about 6 times per season.
correct

Quote:
Originally Posted by CTFLYERSFAN View Post
I thought this was a way to get the Philly feed
no

Quote:
Originally Posted by CTFLYERSFAN View Post
but actually a way for the Philly market to get the CI games. Makes sense ...
correct. and yes, it does

Quote:
Originally Posted by might2mash View Post
Why petition them, what else are they going to do?
who said petition ? they opened up a new website, which includes direct contact information.

and there are many Flyers fans who want the Flyers games on CSN on the Dish

[even though there is a way to get the games alone on the Dish, as described earlier]

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11-08-2011, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
the FCC denied Comcast's appeal in June. I believe DISH Network have contacted the FCC complaining that Comcast is trying to charge an outrageously high fee for CSN Philly [one that is not in line with what they charge for the other CSNs nationwide, those CSNs can't be withheld from the Dishes, as they are not part of the loophole]
But the case is still open to the best of my knowledge. The Court of Appeals upheld only part of the order, saying that they can regulate what is going on, but also remanded it back to the FCC to determine whether or not the cable company (Cablevision, I think?) has to follow the regulation. As far as I can tell the FCC hasn't ruled on that yet. That's what I mean when I am asking for something more current.

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11-08-2011, 10:22 AM
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Bernie Parent 1974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Protest, your point would have a lot more weight if DirecTV and the NFL weren't doing the exact same thing to consumers.
that is 100% false.

the NFL owns the programming. DTV outbid Comcast on 3 occasions to broadcast the NFL. DTV does NOT own the programming, and is not using any loopholes to withhold ANYTHING from anybody.

these are NFL ST Distributors, the NFL decides who carries NFL ST, not DirecTV:

Canada
TELUS Optik TV
TELUS Satellite TV
Bell TV
Shaw Direct
Access Communications
Cogeco Cable
EastLink Cable
Rogers Cable
Shaw Cable
Vidéotron
Westman Communications
MTS
SaskTel

Mexico and Central America
Sky TV

South America and Caribbean
DirecTV Latin America

Bermuda
CableVision

Bahamas
Cable Bahamas



unlike CSN Philly, where Comcast owns the programming AND the distribution. Comcast has NEVER put up for bid the broadcast rights to CSN Philly.



Comcast needs to win the bid from the NFL, as the NFL owns the programming

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
But the case is still open to the best of my knowledge. The Court of Appeals upheld only part of the order, saying that they can regulate what is going on, but also remanded it back to the FCC to determine whether or not the cable company (Cablevision, I think?) has to follow the regulation. As far as I can tell the FCC hasn't ruled on that yet. That's what I mean when I am asking for something more current.
it is still ongoing, yes.

Comcast is the cable company dragging their feet.


Last edited by Beef Invictus: 11-08-2011 at 10:27 AM. Reason: Merged posts; Just tidying up
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11-08-2011, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
it is still ongoing, yes.

Comcast is the cable company dragging their feet.
I'm pretty sure it isn't Comcast that is dragging their feet. I think it is still in court and the FCC might even wind up saying that Comcast and other companies don't have to uplink their stations. I think it is going to be a long time before anything happens with this situation (unless they settle out of court).

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11-08-2011, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
the FCC denied Comcast's appeal in June. I believe DISH Network have contacted the FCC complaining that Comcast is trying to charge an outrageously high fee for CSN Philly [one that is not in line with what they charge for the other CSNs nationwide, those CSNs can't be withheld from the Dishes, as they are not part of the loophole]
we've been over this, Bernie. Not all CSNs are the same. CSN Philly is easily their mst valuable channel.

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11-08-2011, 11:25 AM
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Bernie Parent 1974
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
we've been over this, Bernie. Not all CSNs are the same. CSN Philly is easily their mst valuable channel.
which does not change any of the facts. nobody claims they are all the same in every way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Bernie, DirecTV specifically negotiates for EXCLUSIVE rights to NFL ST here. They did the same thing with MLB and Congress stepped in ......
and the NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE decided to make the NFL ST an exclusive contract since the NFL owns the product

again, for those who are being misled here:

Comcast needs to win the bid from the NFL, as the NFL owns the programming, and the NFL decided to make the contract exclusive, not DirecTV.

had Comcast won the Contract by actually offering more money than DTV [there's a thought, huh ?] then COMCAST would have exclusive DISTRIBUTION rights to the NFL's PRODUCT.

Congress did NOTHING to DirecTV regarding MLB .. they went to MLB about their product

you seem to be intentionally misrepresenting the facts


Last edited by Bernie Parent 1974: 11-08-2011 at 11:43 AM.
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11-08-2011, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
we've been over this, Bernie. Not all CSNs are the same. CSN Philly is easily their mst valuable channel.
Not only that, but like I've been saying, nothing official has happened as far as I can tell. The appeal upheld only part of the FCC's ruling (the part that doesn't really control the outcome of the case) and it was remanded back to the FCC to figure out basically whether or not the cable companies have to adhere to the rule. It will likely be a long time before anything happens. If the FCC determines the cable companies do have to adhere to the rule, I would imagine they will likely appeal and it will go on for a very long time unless there is some sort of out of court settlement.

It's all worthless anyway because DTV got rid of a bunch of sick channels so even if Comcast does have to uplink CSNPhilly and you go with DTV, then you're missing out on channels like FX, which would suck. I'd rather pay Comcast and get them both, unfortunately. I don't know exactly what happened with fox and DTV, but I think that will hurt DTV as well.

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11-08-2011, 11:38 AM
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Bernie Parent 1974
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
DTV got rid of a bunch of sick channels so even if Comcast does have to uplink CSNPhilly and you go with DTV, then you're missing out on channels like FX, which would suck. .
wrong. i'm watching FX on DTV right now [ch 247]


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post

His claim is that ......
I'll speak for myself, Jest.

Fact: CSNs from cities all across the country are on Satellite
Fact: CSN Philly is not

Comcast is screwing Flyers fans nationwide out of CSN Philly by using the now closing loophole.

In Philadelphia, that means you can't get the Flyers games at all without being a Comcast customer.
UNLESS you use the 'Anti-Loophole Loophole' !!!

this is a different policy than in every other CSN city nationwide, where you are not forced to be a comcast customer to watch the Caps, Black Hawks, Sharks, etc etc etc

those are indisputable facts.

and, Protest, that is how I can clearly point out that Comcast is screwing Flyers fans - but they are not screwing fans of those other teams.


don't let Jest, or anyone else for that matter, speak for me



and in my case, i am paying 100% for NHL Center Ice


Last edited by Beef Invictus: 11-08-2011 at 12:44 PM.
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11-08-2011, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
wrong. i'm watching FX on DTV right now [ch 247]
Yeah but isn't that coming to an end soon? I don't know for sure because I don't have DTV, but I keep seeing commercials that on a certain date DTV will not be offering FX and other Fox channels. If that's not the case then ok, but that's what I have been hearing. If they keep those channels and in the end Comcast does have to let CSN Philly be shown on DTV, then I'd switch in a heartbeat. I hate Comcast so much but I'm not switching until the court case is settled, and at that point only if the fox channels are there.

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11-08-2011, 11:45 AM
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Bernie Parent 1974
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Yeah but isn't that coming to an end soon?
no, unlike Comcast, Fox negotiated in good faith, and the contracts were renewed Oct 31st.

of course Fox wanted as much as they could get, but unlike Comcast, not to the point of withholding programming.

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11-08-2011, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
no, unlike Comcast, Fox negotiated in good faith, and the contracts were renewed Oct 31st.

of course Fox wanted as much as they could get, but unlike Comcast, not to the point of withholding programming.
Well that's good news then. I would think losing those Fox channels would have more of an impact nationwide than not having CSN Philly would in the area. Now let's just hope the courts get the ball rolling so I can get rid of Comcast when I move...

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11-08-2011, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
which does not change any of the facts. nobody claims they are all the same in every way.



and the NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE decided to make the NFL ST an exclusive contract since the NFL owns the product

again, for those who are being misled here:

Comcast needs to win the bid from the NFL, as the NFL owns the programming, and the NFL decided to make the contract exclusive, not DirecTV.

had Comcast won the Contract by actually offering more money than DTV [there's a thought, huh ?] then COMCAST would have exclusive DISTRIBUTION rights to the NFL's PRODUCT.

Congress did NOTHING to DirecTV regarding MLB .. they went to MLB about their product

you seem to be intentionally misrepresenting the facts
Bernie, you are talking exclusively about end user content. You realize that, right?

And Congress absolutely did something to DirecTV, they nullified a signed deal involving them.

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