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Better NHL Career: Pysyk, McNabb, Schiestel, or TJB

View Poll Results: best NHL career
TJ Brennan 1 2.70%
Brayden McNabb 14 37.84%
Mark Pysyk 20 54.05%
Drew Schiestel 2 5.41%
Voters: 37. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-08-2011, 09:53 AM
  #1
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Better NHL Career: Pysyk, McNabb, Schiestel, or TJB

Just curious who you think will blossom into the best out of the bunch, and why you think that.

You can take whatever factors you choose to take in to play - who would fit the team best in 2,3,4 etc. years, or who you think has the most raw talent, or who you think has the game that translates best into the NHL.

Each guy has a strong suit, each has some areas of needed improvement. But who will have the best career in the league?

I have to say McNabb.

And I'd go:

McNabb
Pysyk
Schiestel

TJB

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Old
11-08-2011, 09:58 AM
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I'm concerned that Drew's injury could become recurring.

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11-08-2011, 10:02 AM
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Pysyk
Schiestel/McNabb

Brennan

Pysyk is the safest bet imo to stick in the NHL (would have said Schiestel before, but his injuries scare me). Based on his skillset I'd say he has the highest ceiling too, even though Schiestel/McNabb/Pysyk are all close in that regard. His defensive play is already very mature and he's got untapped offensive potential. The only thing holding him back from having the best career out of these players imo is that the Sabres will have Myers and Ehrhoff on the right side for a long long time.

Brennan is starting to worry me, this is his 5th season after the draft and he's still suffering from major inconsistencies in the minors.


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11-08-2011, 10:05 AM
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For me, it's hard to judge these guys because I've never seen them play against NHL talent. They may all suck or be average "dime a dozen" players in the NHL. Mancari and Gragnani were pretty good in the AHL. In the NHL they are average players. Just not sure how prospects are going to turn out or if their talent will translate well to the NHL.

That being said, I'd be interested in a poll of Ennis vs. Gerbe.... Who is going to have a better playing career?

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11-08-2011, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZZamboni View Post
For me, it's hard to judge these guys because I've never seen them play against NHL talent. They may all suck or be average "dime a dozen" players in the NHL. Mancari and Gragnani were pretty good in the AHL. In the NHL they are average players. Just not sure how prospects are going to turn out or if their talent will translate well to the NHL.

That being said, I'd be interested in a poll of Ennis vs. Gerbe.... Who is going to have a better playing career?
So put it up! Question re: Ennis/Gerbe would be, how do you define "better playing career"? I'd expect Ennis to produce better numbers, but Gerbe could very well end up being the better, more valuable NHLer at this rate.


Re: the four in the thread, it's purely speculation based on any opinion you may have, any biases you may own....whatever it is. I see those 4 as the group out of which, if ONE blossoms big-time and another blossoms into a top-6 guy, we're good to go.

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11-08-2011, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgn View Post
Pysyk
Schiestel/McNabb

Brennan

Pysyk is the safest bet imo to stick in the NHL (would have said Schiestel before, but his injuries scare me). Based on his skillset I'd say he has the highest ceiling too, even though Schiestel/McNabb/Pysyk are all close in that regard. His defensive play is already very mature and he's got untapped offensive potential. The only thing holding him back from having the best career out of these players imo is that the Sabres will have Myers and Ehrhoff on the right side for a long long time.

Brennan is starting to worry me, this is his 5th season after the draft and he's still suffering from major inconsistencies in the minors.
We knew Brennan was a project considering his late start to the game of hockey overall. For someone who started playing (in NJ, nonetheless, where youth hockey is ever so prominent and you can't drive 15 miles without a facility), TJB has progressed into a pro. A minor pro at the moment, but still, we knew he'd be a longer project. I certainly am not going to give up on him just yet.

Hell, I maintained faith in Persson up to this year, too!

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11-08-2011, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
We knew Brennan was a project considering his late start to the game of hockey overall. For someone who started playing (in NJ, nonetheless, where youth hockey is ever so prominent and you can't drive 15 miles without a facility), TJB has progressed into a pro. A minor pro at the moment, but still, we knew he'd be a longer project. I certainly am not going to give up on him just yet.

Hell, I maintained faith in Persson up to this year, too!
I'm far from giving up on him, but with all the younger d-man prospects coming up and the competition he already has, you have to wonder where he fits with this organization.

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11-08-2011, 10:28 AM
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1. Pysyk/Schiestel - I'd have Schiestel #1 if the injury wasn't a concern
2. McNabb - I think he'll be a solid NHLer
3. Brennan - I've never really been a fan of his game

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11-08-2011, 10:32 AM
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McNabb has the highest upside, Pysyk has the best ratio of upside/potential to reach said upside, Schistel is the safe pick, Brennan is a lot of raw talent that still has a ways to go to put it together.

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Old
11-08-2011, 10:50 AM
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I think Pysyk has the most potential. I think McNabb has the highest upside and best overall game that will translate to the NHL. Schiestel will be a solid defenseman if he can stay healthy. TJB is the biggest question mark IMO. I like his came but he is too inconsistent in his development that leads me to believe that he won't be the best out of these 4 guys.
  1. McNabb
  2. Pysyk
  3. Schiestal
  4. TJB

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Old
11-08-2011, 10:59 AM
  #11
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Good poll, it's a tough one.

I probably would've considered McNabb as #3 coming into this season despite his upside. I thought he'd really struggle to adjust at first but it looks like he's making a fairly quick adjustment and right now I'd list him #1 by a hair over both Pysyk and Schiestel.

1) McNabb - best potential and making a good transition
2) Pysyk - pretty safe bet to make it to the NHL, will it be as a top pairing guy or a 3rd pairing guy though?
3) Schiestel - the two injuries have me pretty worried but if he shows it won't have long term effects and it's not a recurring thing, he's right there with Pysyk.
4) Brennan - I still like him but I think it's becoming clear he may not quite have what it takes to stick as a full time NHLer.

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11-08-2011, 12:09 PM
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Only thing clear to me is Brennan is a distant 4th. Any of the other 3 could be the best, second or third. Despite my mancrush on McNabb, I think I'd go Pysyk McNabb Schiestel mostly because of Schiestel's injuries and I think Pysyk is more likely to reach his ceiling than McNabb.

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11-08-2011, 01:28 PM
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McNabb - For me, he has the highest upside; his size immediately gives him a big edge, but being that big and that skilled offensively is a scary thought. Skating ability and defensive play is pretty worrisome, however.

Pysyk - About as safe as it gets. I don't think he'll ever be a first pairing guy, but he will be a 10-year NHLer based off of his skating ability alone. He's good but not great at either end of the ice, and I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up a Jordan Leopold-type player.

Schiestel - Like many have said, injuries are a red flag but he should be an good two-way guy if he can overcome said injuries.

Brennan - Hard to not love his offensive ability for a d-man, especially his really good hands. Still, just doesn't look like he'll ever be much more than an offensive catalyst but defensive liability.


I'll go with the safe choice and say Pysyk has the best career, but think McNabb could easily be a very good player.

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11-08-2011, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgn View Post
I'm far from giving up on him, but with all the younger d-man prospects coming up and the competition he already has, you have to wonder where he fits with this organization.
I don't think there's any question about it anymore — he doesn't.
There's people ahead of him that have similar skill sets and he can't put it together on a consistent basis still.
Even prospects drafted later than him are passing him now.

He should have went to college instead of the Q, IMO.
If he was a freshman following his draft season and stayed all four years, he would have just graduated this past summer.
He didn't need to get stronger or anything obviously, but he would have had more time to work on everything else.
Even though he played far more games in the Q than he would have in college, I think that more practice time would have been key for him.
Game experience matters, but learning more of the ins and outs of the game and learning to be defensively responsible would have done wonders for his game.
Playing against older competition and taking things slow would have also.

His lack of experience (starting hockey fairly late in his life) will always hurt him too.
Playing against weak competition when he did start (NJ area) probably didn't help either, but you can say that about almost any US kid because of the quality of athletes that choose hockey in most areas (the best choose any of the other three major sports, usually).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZZamboni View Post
For me, it's hard to judge these guys because I've never seen them play against NHL talent. They may all suck or be average "dime a dozen" players in the NHL. Mancari and Gragnani were pretty good in the AHL. In the NHL they are average players. Just not sure how prospects are going to turn out or if their talent will translate well to the NHL.
There are plenty of players in the AHL that have no upside and plenty that do have upside.
You can project the impact of players fairly easily based on their tools.
If you just take some time to watch them and figure out what their strengths and weaknesses are, it becomes fairly evident what their potential is and how likely they are to succeed at the NHL level.

Players like Gragnani and Mancari have some of the tools required to be successful players, but not all of them, and it's been known for quite some time that their NHL impact would be fairly low.
Gragnani was terrible defensively for a long time and relies on his vision to make plays, but the effectiveness of it decreases at the NHL level where competition is higher.
His shot isn't anything special, so he has to rely on his passing, but his decision making and hockey sense is average by NHL standards.
His physical dimension is also non-existent.

As for Mancari, he's always been slow.
His hockey sense is also severely lacking and his work ethic is poor.
He got by on his size and his big slapshot, both of which he used to abuse minor league and prospect defensemen and goalies.
Having size in a perimeter league like the AHL will do wonders for just about any player.
He wasn't willing to use his size physically though in the NHL, so there was never any role for him.

On the other hand, players like Pysyk and Schiestel have almost all of them.
Both have hockey sense and skating abilities (definite edge to Pysyk, though).
The combination of those two makes it very easy call them NHL players, barring anything disastrous, because those are two of the most important tools a skater can have.
Schiestel's injuries are a concern, but the impact they have on him going forward is to be determined.
Both are capable of playing in any situation and contributing in big ways.

With McNabb, the only thing really lacking is skating, but the organization's commitment to fixing problems like that along with the fact that he's in no rush and is a large man should make it less of an issue.
All he needs to do is learn what the correct play is at this level, which is a normal transition that has to take place.
It's not like he is a one-dimensional defenseman like Gragnani; he's a complete defenseman and has been one for some time.

Brennan has a lot of the tools required too, but he just can't take that next step it seems.
Consistency issues and lack of hockey sense because of low competition (as I already mentioned) are starting to look like they will lower Brennan's potential ceiling.
He's a physical specimen, but you can't get by on just that in the NHL.


Anyways, to answer the original question, obviously Pysyk is the safest bet to have the best NHL career.
If McNabb reaches his potential though, he will be held in a higher regard because the game he plays is more tangible.
I hope that Schiestel finds somewhere that he can contribute eventually, because I really like him.

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11-08-2011, 01:37 PM
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Id say either pysyk or mcnabb. Why wasn't Leduc mentioned in this thread? He is looking insane.

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11-08-2011, 02:20 PM
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Pysyk has the natural smarts to make it in the NHL. He just needs to gain a few more pounds. McNabb is a close second.

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11-08-2011, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
I don't think there's any question about it anymore he doesn't.
There's people ahead of him that have similar skill sets and he can't put it together on a consistent basis still.
Even prospects drafted later than him are passing him now.

He should have went to college instead of the Q, IMO.
If he was a freshman following his draft season and stayed all four years, he would have just graduated this past summer.
He didn't need to get stronger or anything obviously, but he would have had more time to work on everything else.
Even though he played far more games in the Q than he would have in college, I think that more practice time would have been key for him.
Game experience matters, but learning more of the ins and outs of the game and learning to be defensively responsible would have done wonders for his game.
Playing against older competition and taking things slow would have also.

His lack of experience (starting hockey fairly late in his life) will always hurt him too.
Playing against weak competition when he did start (NJ area) probably didn't help either, but you can say that about almost any US kid because of the quality of athletes that choose hockey in most areas (the best choose any of the other three major sports, usually).

There are plenty of players in the AHL that have no upside and plenty that do have upside.
You can project the impact of players fairly easily based on their tools.
If you just take some time to watch them and figure out what their strengths and weaknesses are, it becomes fairly evident what their potential is and how likely they are to succeed at the NHL level.

Players like Gragnani and Mancari have some of the tools required to be successful players, but not all of them, and it's been known for quite some time that their NHL impact would be fairly low.
Gragnani was terrible defensively for a long time and relies on his vision to make plays, but the effectiveness of it decreases at the NHL level where competition is higher.
His shot isn't anything special, so he has to rely on his passing, but his decision making and hockey sense is average by NHL standards.
His physical dimension is also non-existent.

As for Mancari, he's always been slow.
His hockey sense is also severely lacking and his work ethic is poor.
He got by on his size and his big slapshot, both of which he used to abuse minor league and prospect defensemen and goalies.
Having size in a perimeter league like the AHL will do wonders for just about any player.
He wasn't willing to use his size physically though in the NHL, so there was never any role for him.

On the other hand, players like Pysyk and Schiestel have almost all of them.
Both have hockey sense and skating abilities (definite edge to Pysyk, though).
The combination of those two makes it very easy call them NHL players, barring anything disastrous, because those are two of the most important tools a skater can have.
Schiestel's injuries are a concern, but the impact they have on him going forward is to be determined.
Both are capable of playing in any situation and contributing in big ways.

With McNabb, the only thing really lacking is skating, but the organization's commitment to fixing problems like that along with the fact that he's in no rush and is a large man should make it less of an issue.
All he needs to do is learn what the correct play is at this level, which is a normal transition that has to take place.
It's not like he is a one-dimensional defenseman like Gragnani; he's a complete defenseman and has been one for some time.

Brennan has a lot of the tools required too, but he just can't take that next step it seems.
Consistency issues and lack of hockey sense because of low competition (as I already mentioned) are starting to look like they will lower Brennan's potential ceiling.
He's a physical specimen, but you can't get by on just that in the NHL.


Anyways, to answer the original question, obviously Pysyk is the safest bet to have the best NHL career.
If McNabb reaches his potential though, he will be held in a higher regard because the game he plays is more tangible.
I hope that Schiestel finds somewhere that he can contribute eventually, because I really like him.
This area has spit out, amongst other older guys, Bobby Ryan, James van Riemsdyk, and Kyle Palmieri. The youth hockey these guys would have played growing up, at their skillset, would've included playing against NY, PA, NJ, CT, DE, and MD. Aside from Minnesota, are there that many more vastly superior youth hockey areas than that of the Atlantic extended?

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11-08-2011, 03:22 PM
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I think McNabb will have the best career of all those guys. He has size and physicality that none of the other guys have along with some offensive upside and ability. If he can put it all together at the pro level, which I think he will, he will be a top four defenseman in this league for a long time. Pysyk looks like a future Leopold-type (I know someone else made that comparison, but I've thought that for awhile too), but I love McNabb's upside and I have this feeling that he'll put it all together within a couple years and be a big part of this defensive corps.

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11-08-2011, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
This area has spit out, amongst other older guys, Bobby Ryan, James van Riemsdyk, and Kyle Palmieri. The youth hockey these guys would have played growing up, at their skillset, would've included playing against NY, PA, NJ, CT, DE, and MD. Aside from Minnesota, are there that many more vastly superior youth hockey areas than that of the Atlantic extended?
Not sure if you're aware of this, but Bobby Ryan didn't really develop in NJ.
His father was wanted for attempted murder when he was 10 and his family fled the country, so he spent a lot of time in Canada and in LA, which has become a very strong area for development.
His name isn't even his real one; he was born as Bobby Stevenson and used Bobby Ryan as an alias.
It's a pretty bizarre story.

Anyways, the strong areas for development in the US are the midwest and Massachusetts.
WNY has it's fair share of talented players and the California area is emerging, with programs like the LA Selects spitting out kids left and right.
The talent level in the New York metropolitan area is not close to those of places like IL, MA, MI, MN, WI, or WNY.
There have been more lately coming from places like CT, NJ, and PA lately, but they have a ways to go.

If kids play against inferior competition for most of their lives, it ends up hurting them at the highest level.
They can be supremely skilled but still fail because the inferior competition hurts their hockey sense.
They can just get by on skill at every level, but when they make the transition to the pros, they aren't as effective because of weaker hockey sense.
It's why USA Hockey is trying to push things like the ADM and the Hockey Intelligym.
They are trying to shape kids that are interested in hockey into all-around athletes so that they are competing against the highest caliber of competition, even if it's not necessarily in hockey, and trying to develop hockey sense artificially in an attempt to offset the lack of talent playing hockey.

Starting hockey late is a big factor, but if he grew up in a place like MA or MN instead of NJ, I think he'd be a lot better off.

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11-08-2011, 03:31 PM
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I voted Pysyk as i think he has the highest chance, however Mcnabb has the size and the tools to do it. 50/50 on Brennan and Schiestel (only because of injury).

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11-08-2011, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by jfb392 View Post
Not sure if you're aware of this, but Bobby Ryan didn't really develop in NJ.
His father was wanted for attempted murder when he was 10 and his family fled the country, so he spent a lot of time in Canada and in LA, which has become a very strong area for development.
His name isn't even his real one; he was born as Bobby Stevenson and used Bobby Ryan as an alias.
It's a pretty bizarre story.

Anyways, the strong areas for development in the US are the midwest and Massachusetts.
WNY has it's fair share of talented players and the California area is emerging, with programs like the LA Selects spitting out kids left and right.
The talent level in the New York metropolitan area is not close to those of places like IL, MA, MI, MN, WI, or WNY.
There have been more lately coming from places like CT, NJ, and PA lately, but they have a ways to go.

If kids play against inferior competition for most of their lives, it ends up hurting them at the highest level.
They can be supremely skilled but still fail because the inferior competition hurts their hockey sense.
They can just get by on skill at every level, but when they make the transition to the pros, they aren't as effective because of weaker hockey sense.
It's why USA Hockey is trying to push things like the ADM and the Hockey Intelligym.
They are trying to shape kids that are interested in hockey into all-around athletes so that they are competing against the highest caliber of competition, even if it's not necessarily in hockey, and trying to develop hockey sense artificially in an attempt to offset the lack of talent playing hockey.

Starting hockey late is a big factor, but if he grew up in a place like MA or MN instead of NJ, I think he'd be a lot better off.
Yeah, I know the Ryan story - ESPN had an amazing piece on it a while back. But the point is, the area isn't devoid of talent by any means. A lot of kids currently in the CHL come from NJ, NY, CT, PA

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11-08-2011, 04:57 PM
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Yeah, I know the Ryan story - ESPN had an amazing piece on it a while back. But the point is, the area isn't devoid of talent by any means. A lot of kids currently in the CHL come from NJ, NY, CT, PA
It's not the ideal situation for a kid who chose hockey late either, though.
I mean, he played Tier III until he was 17 in a league that doesn't produce much of anything (AtJHL).
The only program there that really produces anything are the New Jersey Rockets and most of the guys that play in that league go no higher than DIII.
Jerry D'Amigo, Nick Bonino, Pat Cannone, John Carlson, Keith Kinkaid, and Jarred Tinordi played in the league at one point or another, but all moved on to higher levels of competition earlier than Brennan.

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11-08-2011, 05:03 PM
  #23
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It's not the ideal situation for a kid who chose hockey late either, though.
I mean, he played Tier III until he was 17 in a league that doesn't produce much of anything (AtJHL).
The only program there that really produces anything are the New Jersey Rockets and most of the guys that play in that league go no higher than DIII.
Jerry D'Amigo, Nick Bonino, Pat Cannone, John Carlson, Keith Kinkaid, and Jarred Tinordi played in the league at one point or another, but all moved on to higher levels of competition earlier than Brennan.
The Rockets have tailed off as of recent years, as have the Titans. Obviously, there's Applecore still, and the Avalanche have already had a number of DI athletes go through their program: Radoslovich (Bergen Catholic ---> national champ at BU I believe, plays for Trenton Devs now?

Nick Ebert went thru the Avalanche...Privitera to Boston U....but yes, as you said, they all go on to bigger competition. But that's where the talent goes.

MY point is that there are talented players in the states that I named that find their way to the higher junior ranks.

Sorry to derail completely

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11-08-2011, 05:37 PM
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For me it's a toss up between McNabb and Pysyk. Both are great players

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11-08-2011, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by jBuds View Post
The Rockets have tailed off as of recent years, as have the Titans. Obviously, there's Applecore still, and the Avalanche have already had a number of DI athletes go through their program: Radoslovich (Bergen Catholic ---> national champ at BU I believe, plays for Trenton Devs now?

Nick Ebert went thru the Avalanche...Privitera to Boston U....but yes, as you said, they all go on to bigger competition. But that's where the talent goes.

MY point is that there are talented players in the states that I named that find their way to the higher junior ranks.

Sorry to derail completely
Well, I was just talking about AtJHL programs because he played there.
Obviously there are some good programs, but nothing near MWEHL or HS or prep programs of the traditional places.

I'm just saying that for a multi-sport athlete, it's probably not the best situation.
Guys who commit at a young age are just fine, but the guys who don't will end up struggling because they don't have that competition level a kid from a more traditional place would have.

Look at a kid like Anders Lee, who was a serious multi-sport athlete (baseball, football, hockey).
I believe he was the top QB in the state of Minnesota and was highly recruited by DI schools, but he ended up choosing hockey after finishing high school.
He still has great hockey sense and I think that's because he grew up in a place like MN, where competition is very high.
If he grew up in a place like NJ like Brennan, he probably wouldn't be as lucky.

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