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If Radulov were to return towards the end of the season...

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Old
11-08-2011, 10:38 AM
  #26
Seth Lake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
He isn't on loan. He is playing in a league outside North America. There aren't any provisions for a player suspended from his current NHL club due to bailing on his contract years ago. If somebody can find a provision in the CBA that would allow him to come back during the season without waiver exposure, let me know. I don't see it..
When this same argument was made earlier this season in a blog, Poile gathered the media at the arena for that night's game together and specifically addressed that saying it was not applicableto Radulov and that Radulov was eligible to return at any point this season without waivers. I'm trusting him...

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11-08-2011, 10:51 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by SLake View Post
When this same argument was made earlier this season in a blog, Poile gathered the media at the arena for that night's game together and specifically addressed that saying it was not applicableto Radulov and that Radulov was eligible to return at any point this season without waivers. I'm trusting him...
When statements to the media contradict the binding legal document for moving players from Europe/Asia to the NHL during the season, I tend to remain a bit wary. If the league is making special exceptions here ... great. If they haven't, and everyone is going on the hope and prayer system all it will take is one bottom dweller needing offensive help to raise hell and further exacerbate the drama.

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11-08-2011, 10:54 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gopreds19 View Post
When does the KHL season end? Is Radulov's contract up after this year?
26 February. This is his last year under contract provided he does not sign an extension.

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Originally Posted by I Will Son View Post
That could seem very possible Slake. And boy I sure wouldnt mind it. Obviously id rather have him play a full year on that ELC but he is worth it.

And to add on what BFC was saying, I agree it looks like that could be the case. But I dont generally think we need a Center. This is how I would set up the lines lets say if we added Okposo.

Wilson-Smith-Radulov
Erat-Legwand-Okposo
Kostitsyn-Fisher-Hornqvist
Tootoo-Smithson-Spaling.

Wilson, Smith, and Leggy are all Centers, no need to have them all on a line if Rads comes back. Smith and Wilson have both played C most of their lives. Gotta start sometime, Smith has even said he prefers C since its his natural position and he can create more offense. So the center position truly shouldnt be a problem.

But going after a guy like Weiss, Umberger, Bourque etc... would be the sprinkles on top if Rads came back.
A center would be nice, but if we bring in a winger I would rather keep Smith on a wing and move Wilson to the center position. Having a rookie centering the top line down the stretch and into the play offs seems a bit dangerous, especially considering the responsibilities a center, especially a Trotz team center, has on defense. Smith is no slacker, but personally I would feel much more comfortable allowing him to continue concentrating more on his game as a winger for this year. Of course, Wilson is also young. Maybe move Wilson down to center the third line, and move Legwand and Fisher up a line. Also, with Radulov's new-found playmaking abilities perhaps a line of Erat-Legwand-Radulov would look closer to the 9-10-11 line we had in 2006-2007, though Radulov's skating will have had to have improved greatly if he is going to be the Kariya of that line.

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Originally Posted by AtlantaWhaler View Post
There is no doubt that Radulov would add big offense and is very talented, but my issue is this: Assuming we are still good enough later in the season to be buyers, would bringing in a guy who previously bolted on the team to play overseas going to disrupt a good locker room with good chemistry? I would rather not risk this and make a deadline deal instead. Then get him for a full season next year.
Legwand, Erat, Weber, Suter, Tootoo, and Smithson are the only guys left from that team if I recall correctly. I don't think it would be a huge issue. Weber seems like he would be the most likely to continue carrying a bit of a grudge, and if he wants to win he may have to just let bygones be bygones.

As for the question of whether or not Rads would have to clear waivers, Poile would be absolutely stupid to not get an absolutely, set-in-stone, confirmed answered on this before bringing him back. There is no way Radulov clears waivers.

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11-08-2011, 10:54 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
When statements to the media contradict the binding legal document for moving players from Europe/Asia to the NHL during the season, I tend to remain a bit wary. If the league is making special exceptions here ... great. If they haven't, and everyone is going on the hope and prayer system all it will take is one bottom dweller needing offensive help to raise hell and further exacerbate the drama.
We will see, but once again, Bettman, Daly, and Poile have all stated the same thing. Until it happens, I'm trusting them to know what they are talking about...

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11-08-2011, 10:57 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLake View Post
We will see, but once again, Bettman, Daly, and Poile have all stated the same thing. Until it happens, I'm trusting them to know what they are talking about...
I wonder how much of a ****-storm the NHLPA will throw if, in fact, this is treated as a special circumstance. Or is it more likely that, since it will most likely be the management of the teams below us who complain and not the players themselves, the NHLPA will keep their nose out of it?

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11-08-2011, 11:01 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
He isn't on loan. He is playing in a league outside North America. There aren't any provisions for a player suspended from his current NHL club due to bailing on his contract years ago. If somebody can find a provision in the CBA that would allow him to come back during the season without waiver exposure, let me know. I don't see it..
it is exactly the fact that there isnt a clause that deals with a suspended player that makes this clause inapplicable.

that clause was written pertaining to a player playing "legally" in another league in order to prevent teams from hiding a player overseas and then bringing him back at a later period.

technically, Rads is in violation of his contract. technically we have been trying to bring him back ever since he left. for this reason I think a midseason return would be allowed, but I admit it would be a judgement call on the part of the NHL. But what I do know is Poile wouldnt be so stupid as to try it without knowing for sure that he could do so without risking waivers, so I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens...

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Old
11-08-2011, 11:07 AM
  #32
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Man, this Pens fan would love if it for you guys if that happened!

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11-08-2011, 11:12 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
When statements to the media contradict the binding legal document for moving players from Europe/Asia to the NHL during the season, I tend to remain a bit wary. If the league is making special exceptions here ... great. If they haven't, and everyone is going on the hope and prayer system all it will take is one bottom dweller needing offensive help to raise hell and further exacerbate the drama.
I'm of the opinion that because Radulov broke the contract and was playing in the KHL by those means rather than by the end of his contract or his rights being waived by the NHL team, he is required to honor the final year of his ECL and can return w/out clearing waivers. Plus wasn't he suspended by the team as well as his transfer to the KHL by the IIHF? Otherwise, doesn't this basically violate the underpinnings of contract law and void the CBA?

This seems like a good question to get Poile or Bettman or even Fehr on the hook for and cite where in the CBA this is covered and how it WILL be interpreted by all parties. If is has, please share!!

I'm not sure that the NHLPA will make that fight their own because it could serve as a way for players to break their contracts w/ teams they don't like and undermine the integrity of the CBA.

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11-08-2011, 11:19 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
it is exactly the fact that there isnt a clause that deals with a suspended player that makes this clause inapplicable.

that clause was written pertaining to a player playing "legally" in another league in order to prevent teams from hiding a player overseas and then bringing him back at a later period.

technically, Rads is in violation of his contract. technically we have been trying to bring him back ever since he left. for this reason I think a midseason return would be allowed, but I admit it "
would be a judgement call on the part of the NHL. But what I do know is Poile wouldnt be so stupid as to try it without knowing for sure that he could do so without risking waivers, so I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens...
Actually, the "other than on Loan from his Club" would apply to Radulov without a special exemption from the league. The Preds had to suspend him to prevent this final year of his ELC to expire while he plays in the KHL ... he isn't on loan so he must be the KHL under some "other" arrangement.

Maybe there is some back room decision that would allow the Preds to treat this as though they did "loan" him for this final season if he chooses to come back to the NHL. Maybe Bettman is hoping that a media statement is enough to get this through. The disconnect between the statements from Poile/Bettman/Daly and the wording of the CBA is dangerous territory and the risk remains for another round of drama until this is resolved.

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11-08-2011, 11:46 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Actually, the "other than on Loan from his Club" would apply to Radulov without a special exemption from the league. The Preds had to suspend him to prevent this final year of his ELC to expire while he plays in the KHL ... he isn't on loan so he must be the KHL under some "other" arrangement.

Maybe there is some back room decision that would allow the Preds to treat this as though they did "loan" him for this final season if he chooses to come back to the NHL. Maybe Bettman is hoping that a media statement is enough to get this through. The disconnect between the statements from Poile/Bettman/Daly and the wording of the CBA is dangerous territory and the risk remains for another round of drama until this is resolved.
If forced to interpret the situation in light of the CBA the Preds would contend that this is the equivalent of having a player on loan, since he was under contract with the preds when he went over. The rule is specifically designed to keep teams from poaching unaffiliated euros after their seasons end, but nobody would bat an eye if a contracted player loaned to europe returned after their euro season was over, and i think that is how the rads situation would be viewed, even though the "loan" was involuntary.

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11-08-2011, 12:24 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Actually, the "other than on Loan from his Club" would apply to Radulov without a special exemption from the league. The Preds had to suspend him to prevent this final year of his ELC to expire while he plays in the KHL ... he isn't on loan so he must be the KHL under some "other" arrangement.

Maybe there is some back room decision that would allow the Preds to treat this as though they did "loan" him for this final season if he chooses to come back to the NHL. Maybe Bettman is hoping that a media statement is enough to get this through. The disconnect between the statements from Poile/Bettman/Daly and the wording of the CBA is dangerous territory and the risk remains for another round of drama until this is resolved.
There was some disagreement between the league's position and CBA language as 101 points out and I think he's right about needing to pass through waivers. I believe a couple of reputable reporters actually looked into this and confirmed the same through somebody with NHLPA (but I can't remember for sure) that this is the stance they would take. The NHL clearly feels differently.

I'm sure everybody around the league recognizes Nashville's rights on this issue, and the league obviously has taken a stance, but that doesn't mean that the waiver situation as they wish it to mean is the same as what the CBA language actually dictates.

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11-08-2011, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Preds Partisan View Post
There was some disagreement between the league's position and CBA language as 101 points out and I think he's right about needing to pass through waivers. I believe a couple of reputable reporters actually looked into this and confirmed the same through somebody with NHLPA (but I can't remember for sure) that this is the stance they would take. The NHL clearly feels differently.

I'm sure everybody around the league recognizes Nashville's rights on this issue, and the league obviously has taken a stance, but that doesn't mean that the waiver situation as they wish it to mean is the same as what the CBA language actually dictates.
but the thing is, who enforces the CBA?? that would be the league. so if they say it is kosher, it will be, unless someone wants to challenge it, and I dont know who would have the right to challenge it, or in what venue

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11-08-2011, 02:13 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
but the thing is, who enforces the CBA?? that would be the league. so if they say it is kosher, it will be, unless someone wants to challenge it, and I dont know who would have the right to challenge it, or in what venue
The NHLPA can challenge as can any of the 29 other teams in the league who might want to put in a claim if we try to bring him back.

Now that we've had this situation, it needs to be addressed in the next CBA. The current wording requires finding a way around 13.23 to bring him back without exposing him to waivers. If the league lets the Preds "loan" him to Ufa just for this season (mid-season of course .. just in time to bring him back), after not being on "loan" for 2008-2011/12, takes one hell of a leap of logic that and suspension of reality.

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11-08-2011, 02:35 PM
  #39
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Might be difficult to get since the Islanders highly value him.
Yea I know they use to, but they have a bunch of players that seem to be passing him on the charts. He cant seem to get it together this year and a lot of Isle fans on HF have said he could use a change of scenery.

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11-08-2011, 03:48 PM
  #40
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klein was here I thought as well.


would be kinda neat to be able to loan players out soccer style. imagine signing Weber to a 7 year front loaded deal and loaning him for a year to Sweden and they agree to pay 15 million for that one year. would be neat interplay

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11-08-2011, 04:04 PM
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Why even start a thread like this so early in the season. This issue is so old and tired, nothing new can be added to the discussion.

It could have at least waited till late January. Good Lord, how many times and in how many ways will we speculate on the return of Rads.

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11-08-2011, 04:11 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by WartracePred View Post
Why even start a thread like this so early in the season. This issue is so old and tired, nothing new can be added to the discussion.

It could have at least waited till late January. Good Lord, how many times and in how many ways will we speculate on the return of Rads.

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11-08-2011, 08:02 PM
  #43
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Seth/BFC, you guys weren't throwing me a bone just so one of my preseason predictions would be right, were you?

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13. If Radulov’s team is knocked out of the KHL playoffs in time (or doesn’t make the playoffs), there will be a ton of speculation (merited or not) on whether he could and/or would join the Predators this year for the playoff run.
lol

Just joshing.

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11-08-2011, 08:11 PM
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11-08-2011, 08:26 PM
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Guys, it's considered playing the role of moderator to question the validity of a thread, and that is against the site rules. If you don't like it, don't post in it. If it's too tempting to post but you know you're going to ask why the thread even exists you can click on the "x" icon to the right of the thread title to ignore the entire thread that way you don't see it. Let's nip this in the bud, please.

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11-09-2011, 01:47 AM
  #46
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Guys, it's considered playing the role of moderator to question the validity of a thread, and that is against the site rules. If you don't like it, don't post in it. If it's too tempting to post but you know you're going to ask why the thread even exists you can click on the "x" icon to the right of the thread title to ignore the entire thread that way you don't see it. Let's nip this in the bud, please.
I hear ya. But a moderator started this one. It's a frustrating subject with a capital F. He's coming back, he ain't coming back. He's coming back, he ain't coming back. And I can't find the damn little x on my iPhone to block the thread, so it's too tempting not to be a smartass.

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11-09-2011, 06:14 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by WartracePred View Post
I hear ya. But a moderator started this one. It's a frustrating subject with a capital F. He's coming back, he ain't coming back. He's coming back, he ain't coming back. And I can't find the damn little x on my iPhone to block the thread, so it's too tempting not to be a smartass.
I think it's entertaining. I don't like only having 3 or 4 current threads going and I don't like how most things are thrown all together in the general preds section either. As long as there are questions, there will be speculation and discussion here and the main board.

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11-09-2011, 06:52 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WartracePred View Post
I hear ya. But a moderator started this one. It's a frustrating subject with a capital F. He's coming back, he ain't coming back. He's coming back, he ain't coming back. And I can't find the damn little x on my iPhone to block the thread, so it's too tempting not to be a smartass.
I did not start the thread. It was BFC's thread, however when I copied my post that he referenced into the thread, due to timestamps, it placed my post first. Irregardless, had I started the thread, my position as a moderator would not preclude me from participating in the community.

I too quite frequently post from my iPhone, as I'm doing right now, the "ignore" button is very prominently located to the right of every thread title at the end of the title on the main screen. It is the black box with an "X" in it. When you hit it, it will ask you to confirm that you'd like to ignore the thread and with one more click it will be placed on your ignore list and disappear from your screen.

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11-09-2011, 01:16 PM
  #49
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Alright!
As I see it he is suspended by his club and currently under article 9.1 d(iii) of CBA.
He is under ELS contract with Nashville Predators with one year remaining on it followed by RFA status.
I would think that from NHL and NHLPA legal point of view under current CBA his contract with any other club but Nashville Predators is not recognized. So technically for NHL he is not playing.
Thereafter he is not re-entry waiver eligible and can return to his Club at anytime if club lift the suspention.

Sorry if I am wrong but thats how I see it.

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11-09-2011, 02:40 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by tserberis View Post
Alright!
As I see it he is suspended by his club and currently under article 9.1 d(iii) of CBA.
He is under ELS contract with Nashville Predators with one year remaining on it followed by RFA status.
I would think that from NHL and NHLPA legal point of view under current CBA his contract with any other club but Nashville Predators is not recognized. So technically for NHL he is not playing.
Thereafter he is not re-entry waiver eligible and can return to his Club at anytime if club lift the suspention.

Sorry if I am wrong but thats how I see it.
If Radulov comes back following this NHL season, the end of his suspension and extension of his EL status is simple .... 12-13 as his final ELC season, RFA the year following. If we try to bring him back during the season, it gets tricky with 13.23 since he isn't Loaned to the KHL. 9.1d(iii) explains how we've kept him under the final year of his ELC contract since July 2008 ... how it would interact with 13.23 if he attempts a mid-season comeback is a matter of doubt.

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