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Old
11-09-2011, 03:24 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Duc620 View Post
I still believe Loktionov is better served getting physically stronger with more important minutes as a leader in the minors at this point in his development. It always seemed to me that players are best brought up in late Feb or March... after the team has a real identity and record. That allows the new kid specific roles and expectations rather than just "changing things up". Gives them a better position from which to succeed and leaves the pressure on the vets.
I think it depends on the team and the player you are recalling. A rebuilding team tends to call up a lot of guys after the tarde deadline to fill holes and assess guys for next year. For a team like us, we'd likely only recall a guy if he can fill a specific spot and is far enough along the development line to fit in without missing a beat. See Voynov. Kid is NHL ready but he's not good enough to crack our line up. He is good enough to come in and immediately play 20 minutes a game in a set position, not bouncing all over the pairings from game to game and shift to shift. It's what Detroit does well, usually with forwards.

I doubt Loki or anyone gets a recall as a "change things up" type of move. A trade would happen before that I think. And I agree, while I did want Loki to make the team from camp, now that he's in Manchester, leave him there (barring injury). Let him play a full season and put up big numbers as the team elader, Kopitar style.

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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Something to be said for this as well. I would like to see Loktionov at least get a cup of coffee this season. There's still a long way to go. We shall see.
I'd be shocked if he didn't get into the line up at some point. If one of Kopitar, Richards or Stoll get hurt, he's a virtual lock to get a recall then.

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Old
11-09-2011, 03:39 PM
  #102
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Don't agree, sorry. You don't put up 24-28 goals a season with 3rd line skills. You just don't.
I would argue that with Richards or Kopitar as your center almost any NHL winger should be able to produce those numbers on a regular basis.

I still think Brown's skill set, independent of point production, is best suited for the 3rd line, mainly because I agree with Bandit's comment that there are skills Brown needs to possess as a top 6 winger (or top 9 arguably) that he simply isn't good at. I'd rather he bungle the stuff he's supposed to be good at on the 3rd line.

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11-09-2011, 03:41 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by TonySCV View Post
I would argue that with Richards or Kopitar as your center almost any NHL winger should be able to produce those numbers on a regular basis.

I still think Brown's skill set, independent of point production, is best suited for the 3rd line, mainly because I agree with Bandit's comment that there are skills Brown needs to possess as a top 6 winger (or top 9 arguably) that he simply isn't good at. I'd rather he bungle the stuff he's supposed to be good at on the 3rd line.
But the guys that TM supposedly ruined (Moulson and Purcell) couldn't do it.

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11-09-2011, 03:42 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Asheru View Post
If by stopper line you mean taking on the top offensive lines of the opposition (Malkin, Kovalchuk, etc), Richards's line has already been doing that. It could work.
Yeah, I know. I would like to see that line not have to do that on a full time basis.

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11-09-2011, 03:48 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
But the guys that TM supposedly ruined (Moulson and Purcell) couldn't do it.
Then I'm underrating Brown's overall skill set.

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11-09-2011, 04:05 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by TonySCV View Post
I would argue that with Richards or Kopitar as your center almost any NHL winger should be able to produce those numbers on a regular basis.

I still think Brown's skill set, independent of point production, is best suited for the 3rd line, mainly because I agree with Bandit's comment that there are skills Brown needs to possess as a top 6 winger (or top 9 arguably) that he simply isn't good at. I'd rather he bungle the stuff he's supposed to be good at on the 3rd line.
Has every player Kopitar played with posted 25+ goals? Richards? No. It hasn't happened. Nodl played a lot with Richards last year, he had 11, and even that was exceeding expectations. In the last five seasons (since Kopitar's rookie season), there have been four players to score 24 goals in a season, Cammy did it once, Frolov twice, Brown four times and Kopitar four times. Kopitar's played with a lot more wingers than that, especially considering Cammy's been gone for three years. In those five years Kopitar has 12 more goals than Dustin Brown, or 2.4 more goals per season.
The "anyone playing with XXX" line is so old. Gretzky was the best there ever was, and he couldn't get some players to 25 goals. Remember Vitali Yachmenev? 19 goals with Gretzky and about 80 missed chances. You actually have to have skill to score 25 goals, not just happen to get line up next to a good centre.

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11-09-2011, 04:08 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by TonySCV View Post
Then I'm underrating Brown's overall skill set.
IMO, there are certain things Brown can do from time to time that kind of shock us all. I don't think that is luck, he just isn't skilled enough to do them all the time.

Can he skate fast in a straight line and put a forehand or backhand pass close enough to another player's wheelhouse for him to one-time the puck if the receiver has a little skill? Sure.

To me he has the skill of an average 2nd line player, it's his physical game that provides the extra dimension that makes him slightly better than the average 2nd line player. Purcell plays on the 2nd line in Tampa Bay (I think). No way I would take Teddy over Dustin.

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11-09-2011, 06:03 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
IMO, there are certain things Brown can do from time to time that kind of shock us all. I don't think that is luck, he just isn't skilled enough to do them all the time.
Exactly. That's really the definition of a power forward.

They are rewarded when the play the power game. They lose ground when they get cute. On the other hand, a successful top 6 guy will give teams and goalies different looks. They have to change up the attack. Otherwise they get too predictable and easy to defend. (Insert, "but, that's what wrong with Brown and the toe drag!!" complaints)

True, but his success with it (every once and awhile) and showing it is what puts the doubt in the D and goalies mind....

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Old
11-09-2011, 06:20 PM
  #109
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What could a package of Penner-Stoll-Martinez plus a pick maybe fetch us?

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Old
11-09-2011, 06:44 PM
  #110
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1. Call up Voynov / try to get something for Drewiske / besides DD8 and JJ3 the other d-men can make room for VV26
2. Parse isn't worth holding on to anymore / trade when off IR
3. Pretty much declare Quick THEE Permanent Number One Goalie / Bernier can back-up then be used for trade, I've loved the guy since he was drafted but JQ32 is one of the best goalies in the NHL, he deserves number one status, contract extension when allowed, acquire veteran back-up later
4. Call up Loktionov / Stoll, Richardson, Lewis, Fraser can all play center or wing / Moreau and/or Hunter can go
5. Play Clifford AND Westgarth MORE / their presence is worth it, they play a simple hitting, checking, energy game that is more valuable then numbers indicate

Gagne/Kopitar/Williams
Penner/Richards/Brown
Richardson/Loktionov/Stoll or possible trade acquisition ???
Clifford/Lewis/Westgarth

2 of: Fraser/Moreau/Hunter

Mitchell/Doughty
Johnson/Greene
Scuderi/Voynov

Martinez

Quick/Bernier

Out: Parse, Drewiske
Trade bait now or later: Bernier, Stoll, Parse, Drewiske, Hunter, Moreau, Fraser,

STANLEY CUP

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Old
11-09-2011, 07:10 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Richie to Brownie View Post
What could a package of Penner-Stoll-Martinez plus a pick maybe fetch us?
Some other player(s) that other poster(s) would not be happy with.

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