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11-07-2011, 10:19 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by killabee88 View Post
I disagree.

First, I am a huge lightning fan. Ive had centre ice for years just for them and I am literally that one guy in 18k fans wearing a lightning jersey when they are in town. They are my eastcoast team . So really this trade proposal was not an attempt to rip off, but one that I see bettering both teams.
I don't care if the Lightning are your 2nd favourite team. The fact remains that you're a Canucks fan first, and any deal you propose will still be in your favour before ours. The Avalanche are my 2nd favourite team, but I wouldn't hesitate to fleece them in what I view as a fair trade if it made my Bolts better.

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Originally Posted by MAB4Norris View Post
I'm trying to separate myself from this and look at it objectively. Simply, Schneider is a great goalie prospect, and probably the most sought after goalie in the league. To get him, we're going to have to give up a top prospect of our own, or a halfway decent roster player. Connolly or Ashton + a mid level draft pick is probably good value. The question comes as to how much we want a goalie like that. We'd have to ask our selves, since this is more of a prospect swap (who both play now), how would we feel in five years if both reach their potential? An annual .920% goalie vs. a 35~ goal, 70~ point scorer?
Prospect is the key word here. We don't know if he'll ever be a consistent #1, as his numbers this year aren't exceptional so far (2.51 GAA, .917 SV% and a 2-3 record). Just like we don't know if Connolly will be stick as a top line player year after year. I think Y will want a more proven netminder since we're in a win now mode, but Schneider definitely has the promise of being a long-term #1 goaltender solution. I just see Connolly and a 2nd as overpayment for a guy who hasn't played full-time yet and is unproven as a #1.

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11-07-2011, 10:26 AM
  #102
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If we're going in the direction of trading for Schneider, I'd rather see us giving up a package along the lines of Roloson, Tokarski and a 2nd round pick in 2012. Roloson can back-up Luongo this year and is a steady presence in case Lou chokes again down the line, Tokarski represents a potential #1 or at least back-up in a year or two and 2012 is a deep draft, so the 2nd rounder will return what could be a good prospect.

Realistically, I see it taking more than that to acquire Schneider, but I don't think Y would offer Connolly at this point in time. I also feel that Schneider's value is overrated around these boards.


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11-07-2011, 10:58 AM
  #103
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Maybe this is just me, though, but what about a package centered around Downie? I know he is our hard-nosed guy, but we seem to have a healthy stock of forwards in the pipeline, so maybe he becomes an expendable? Maybe a Downie + 3rd-5th for Schneider? Let's face it, the Canucks really could use some grit, and we're going to be up against it next off-season with contracts.

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11-07-2011, 10:59 AM
  #104
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Im not convinced by Schneider nor by Bernier, shall we really throw away good players or prospects? Goaltenders are really tough to judge, I rather see us sign someone who is a bit older, around 30 in that case.

With that said..I still have faith in Tokarski.

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11-07-2011, 12:09 PM
  #105
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See, that I don't get. Last year Tokarski was shaky at the AHL level, and has started the season poorly this year, and Schneider and Bernier haven't been "the guy" yet, but when they have played, they have performed well. Obviously picking up one of these guys is a risk, but we have a definite hole to fill in goal, with a wealth of talent up front.

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11-07-2011, 01:30 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by MAB4Norris View Post
See, that I don't get. Last year Tokarski was shaky at the AHL level, and has started the season poorly this year, and Schneider and Bernier haven't been "the guy" yet, but when they have played, they have performed well. Obviously picking up one of these guys is a risk, but we have a definite hole to fill in goal, with a wealth of talent up front.
Tokarski has started out slow after not having a camp due to injury, BUT he does have 2 shutouts and has a .903 Save % after letting in 11goals on his first 52 shots....

I think all of this "he's playing horrible" stuff is relative to his being rusty his first couple of games.

In his last 5 games he has posted a .952 Save %

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11-07-2011, 01:42 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by MAB4Norris View Post
Maybe this is just me, though, but what about a package centered around Downie? I know he is our hard-nosed guy, but we seem to have a healthy stock of forwards in the pipeline, so maybe he becomes an expendable? Maybe a Downie + 3rd-5th for Schneider? Let's face it, the Canucks really could use some grit, and we're going to be up against it next off-season with contracts.
This is one option I'd definitely consider. Downie isn't as valuable as Connolly in my eyes and he makes more sense for Vancouver. He would basically replace what they lost in Torres. Also, this would allow us to call up Ashton and see if he can continue to produce at the NHL level. It'd be sacrificing grit/toughness for more scoring/size. However, our team is already short on grit and toughness as it is, so I'm not sure if it'd be the best idea.

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11-07-2011, 03:10 PM
  #108
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I'd rather go for Anders Lindback now that Rinne's been re-signed for 7 years.

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11-07-2011, 03:27 PM
  #109
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I'd rather go for Anders Lindback now that Rinne's been re-signed for 7 years.
Lindback has adult-onset Still's disease.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adult-o...ll%27s_disease

The symptoms don't seem compatible with a #1 goaltender in the NHL.

http://www.ontheforecheck.com/2010/1...nders-lindback
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...Lindback was selected 207th overall in 2008, but would have gone much higher had he not been diagnosed with Adult Still's Disease months earlier. He needs one injection a day to deal with arthritis-related pains. Other teams were scared off by his condition...

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11-07-2011, 03:35 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Felonious Python View Post
Lindback has adult-onset Still's disease.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adult-o...ll%27s_disease

The symptoms don't seem compatible with a #1 goaltender in the NHL.

http://www.ontheforecheck.com/2010/1...nders-lindback
Though I feel you are being slightly sarcastic, it is a legitimate concern that I was unaware of. Similar situation in Gustavsson in terms of his heart problems being an issue, though I believe Lindback is a better goalie than him.

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11-07-2011, 04:49 PM
  #111
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Though I feel you are being slightly sarcastic, it is a legitimate concern that I was unaware of. Similar situation in Gustavsson in terms of his heart problems being an issue, though I believe Lindback is a better goalie than him.
I'm not really being sarcastic as much as cautious. Teams stay away from guys with health issues like that for a reason.

It's different if it's a skater, but a goalie is no joke. To be the #1, he must be consistent, and if an on-going health concern could in any way could jeopardize that, I'd rather avoid the particular player.

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11-07-2011, 05:15 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Mile High View Post

Prospect is the key word here. We don't know if he'll ever be a consistent #1, as his numbers this year aren't exceptional so far (2.51 GAA, .917 SV% and a 2-3 record). Just like we don't know if Connolly will be stick as a top line player year after year. I think Y will want a more proven netminder since we're in a win now mode, but Schneider definitely has the promise of being a long-term #1 goaltender solution. I just see Connolly and a 2nd as overpayment for a guy who hasn't played full-time yet and is unproven as a #1.
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Originally Posted by Mile High View Post
If we're going in the direction of trading for Schneider, I'd rather see us giving up a package along the lines of Roloson, Tokarski and a 2nd round pick in 2012. Roloson can back-up Luongo this year and is a steady presence in case Lou chokes again down the line, Tokarski represents a potential #1 or at least back-up in a year or two and 2012 is a deep draft, so the 2nd rounder will return what could be a good prospect.

Realistically, I see it taking more than that to acquire Schneider, but I don't think Y would offer Connolly at this point in time. I also feel that Schneider's value is overrated around these boards.
So, you're not completely sold on Schneider as a full time, consistent #1 yet, you think Yzerman will want a more proven goalie because you're in 'win-now' mode, but then you propose to go into the playoffs this season with Garon and Schneider?

Roli is the more proven goalie for this season and will have to fall very, very far in the eyes of Boucher and Yzerman for that trade proposal to happen, and I can't see the Canucks spending or having cap room to give up $900k for $3m pro-rated to bring Roli in behind Luongo, especially given he will be a pending UFA.

I think Roli will finish out the year with the Bolts, and he is proven in the playoffs. He had a bad 3 of 4 games to start this season. Since then he has posted a 1.85gaa & .927sv% so he's turning things around. I also think Schneider will finish out the season with the Canucks since they're in win-now mode as well and he's proven he's a steady presence to insure against Lou's chokes. I'm not sure what the Canucks will gain by trading him this season. He's RFA so they don't have to worry about him walking like they would have to worry about a UFA. Maybe they trade him in the off-season, but I don't think they'll do anything during the season.

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11-07-2011, 08:12 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by LateNightOilerFan View Post
So, you're not completely sold on Schneider as a full time, consistent #1 yet, you think Yzerman will want a more proven goalie because you're in 'win-now' mode, but then you propose to go into the playoffs this season with Garon and Schneider?

Roli is the more proven goalie for this season and will have to fall very, very far in the eyes of Boucher and Yzerman for that trade proposal to happen, and I can't see the Canucks spending or having cap room to give up $900k for $3m pro-rated to bring Roli in behind Luongo, especially given he will be a pending UFA.

I think Roli will finish out the year with the Bolts, and he is proven in the playoffs. He had a bad 3 of 4 games to start this season. Since then he has posted a 1.85gaa & .927sv% so he's turning things around. I also think Schneider will finish out the season with the Canucks since they're in win-now mode as well and he's proven he's a steady presence to insure against Lou's chokes. I'm not sure what the Canucks will gain by trading him this season. He's RFA so they don't have to worry about him walking like they would have to worry about a UFA. Maybe they trade him in the off-season, but I don't think they'll do anything during the season.
When did I propose going into the post-season with Schneider and Garon?? I said Y would ideally want someone more proven than Schneider...

However, I did say that IF a Schneider deal were to happen, I would rather give up a package of Roloson/Tokarski/pick opposed to giving up Connolly. Why would a team trade for a 42 year old goalie going onto 43 in the off-season? Roloson generally goes on patterns of playing well one night and poorly the next. Playoffs aside, last season he followed a similar pattern once he was traded to us (besides the 8 game winning streak in April/May). His gaa and sv% will not hold at 1.85 and .927 respectively, shown by his season ending stats in previous years. Our offence will have to continue to bail him out every other game, and over the course of the regular season, this isn't a sustainable strategy and we'll be hard pressed to get into the playoffs with that kind of goaltending.

I don't doubt Roloson's ability to come up big in the playoffs, but I see a bigger issue with making the playoffs if we continue to roll Roloson/Garon. It's still early in the year, but Roloson's glove hand side really concerns me since it seems to be stuck to his side every time a puck goes high.

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11-07-2011, 09:53 PM
  #114
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When did I propose going into the post-season with Schneider and Garon?? I said Y would ideally want someone more proven than Schneider...

However, I did say that IF a Schneider deal were to happen, I would rather give up a package of Roloson/Tokarski/pick opposed to giving up Connolly. Why would a team trade for a 42 year old goalie going onto 43 in the off-season?
You proposed trading Roli & Tokarski + pick for Schneider. You would only be able to do that before the trade deadline this season, since Roli will be a UFA at the end of the season. Therefore, you would be going into this season's playoffs with Schnieder and Garon, no?

Quote:
Roloson generally goes on patterns of playing well one night and poorly the next. Playoffs aside, last season he followed a similar pattern once he was traded to us (besides the 8 game winning streak in April/May). His gaa and sv% will not hold at 1.85 and .927 respectively, shown by his season ending stats in previous years. Our offence will have to continue to bail him out every other game, and over the course of the regular season, this isn't a sustainable strategy and we'll be hard pressed to get into the playoffs with that kind of goaltending.

I don't doubt Roloson's ability to come up big in the playoffs, but I see a bigger issue with making the playoffs if we continue to roll Roloson/Garon. It's still early in the year, but Roloson's glove hand side really concerns me since it seems to be stuck to his side every time a puck goes high.
I understand your concern about Roli's glove side, but if something is going on physically I don't think he'd be playing. Therefore, I think he'll work it out by focussing on that part of his game, just like he has made adjustments to his positioning and rebound control in the past. I've watched him since '06, his patterns are better than one game on, one game off. He's had a bad start, but he has shown with the Isles and with the Oilers starting with the 08/09 season that he can have very consistent stretches of play. I also think Boucher has handled/will handle him better than any coach has in a very long time and will get the best out of him and Garon.

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11-07-2011, 11:16 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by LateNightOilerFan View Post
You proposed trading Roli & Tokarski + pick for Schneider. You would only be able to do that before the trade deadline this season, since Roli will be a UFA at the end of the season. Therefore, you would be going into this season's playoffs with Schnieder and Garon, no?
If you look at the 1st post you quoted, I also mention that Schneider wouldn't be my first choice if Y were to trade for a tender. The subsequent post about trading Roloson + for Schneider was only IF Y felt that this was the last resort to save our season and Schneider's numbers were looking good. I don't see Schneider as anything better than what we have now, not until he shows the same numbers with a #1's workload.

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I understand your concern about Roli's glove side, but if something is going on physically I don't think he'd be playing. Therefore, I think he'll work it out by focussing on that part of his game, just like he has made adjustments to his positioning and rebound control in the past. I've watched him since '06, his patterns are better than one game on, one game off. He's had a bad start, but he has shown with the Isles and with the Oilers starting with the 08/09 season that he can have very consistent stretches of play. I also think Boucher has handled/will handle him better than any coach has in a very long time and will get the best out of him and Garon.
I wish it were an injury to his glove hand side because then it's an issue of our goaltending coach. There's no reason why they wouldn't be able to spot that since everyone else on this board seems to be seeing the same thing. I'm sure Roloson will start playing better than his numbers show and he is slightly better than one game on-one game off, but still not what I'd want from a #1. It's only early November so he has a lot of time to turn things around; I'm more or less thinking down the road near the Christmas trade freeze-January if he hasn't.

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11-07-2011, 11:45 PM
  #116
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If you look at the 1st post you quoted, I also mention that Schneider wouldn't be my first choice if Y were to trade for a tender. The subsequent post about trading Roloson + for Schneider was only IF Y felt that this was the last resort to save our season and Schneider's numbers were looking good. I don't see Schneider as anything better than what we have now, not until he shows the same numbers with a #1's workload.
I did look at your first post and that is why I was confused, because your second post seemed to contradict your first. Your proposal didn't speak about it as a last resort. At any rate, I don't think your Roli proposal happens from the Canucks side of things, for the reasons I listed so I'll drop the discussion.

I do think Roli will be fine and as I said before, he's going to have to drop very far before he gets traded this season. There has been a vast improvement in his play the past 5 games compared to those 3 bad games in Oct. I have seen this guy bounce back a lot over the years and I think Boucher knows how to get the best out of him as a #1 guy. I'd rather see the defence upgraded so that maybe there aren't as many odd-man rushes and quality scoring chances against this season, and then focus on finding a younger starter in the off-season.

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11-08-2011, 08:03 AM
  #117
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I did look at your first post and that is why I was confused, because your second post seemed to contradict your first. Your proposal didn't speak about it as a last resort. At any rate, I don't think your Roli proposal happens from the Canucks side of things, for the reasons I listed so I'll drop the discussion.

I do think Roli will be fine and as I said before, he's going to have to drop very far before he gets traded this season. There has been a vast improvement in his play the past 5 games compared to those 3 bad games in Oct. I have seen this guy bounce back a lot over the years and I think Boucher knows how to get the best out of him as a #1 guy. I'd rather see the defence upgraded so that maybe there aren't as many odd-man rushes and quality scoring chances against this season, and then focus on finding a younger starter in the off-season.
I should have made it more clear that the proposal was a last resort option if things weren't working out with Roloson/Garon.

I don't know if you could say there's been a vast improvement in his last 5 games, but he's had a shutout, played well in relief and found ways to win a game that he's played poorly in (Chicago 5-4, 3.74 GAA, .875 SV%); the Carolina game was still not great (4-2 loss, 4.07 GAA, .871 SV%) but the defense seemed to break down more and Skinner had two really nice goals. The Chicago game was much worse as it seemed he couldn't stop anything during the 2nd period. However, I do value and trust your opinion of Roloson since you have seen him play a lot more than I have; my assessment is purely from what I've seen from the second half of last year and the beginning of this year.


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11-08-2011, 10:00 AM
  #118
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I don't see what the big deal is with our goalie situation. I think both Garon and Roli have performed well up to this point. Our D hasn't exactly played a game that we could definitively say that our Goalie was the reason we lost or didn't perform well.

So far I like Garon, he's steady, he's going to let in some goals, but I don't expect him to be a brick wall. I just want him to keep us in games.

I think Roli, as of late, has been spectacular. He has made some amazing saves, and yeah he's let some in. But when you have odd man rushes and cross crease passes you can't stop those.

The play Roli made on Weiss and the previous 2on1 in Sundays game is about as much as you can expect out of a goalie.

If anything we need to be asking around for D...Frankly our D is slow, and they can't keep up with other teams top lines. Lundin may not have been everyones favorite shutdown defender, but he was always out there against the Ovechkins the Crosbys and he didn't give them space or room to move.

Now we have Grampa Kubi pinching EVERY freaking play, and getting caught out of position for an oddman rush. Not only is he old and slow, but it seems like he is just as forgetful because he KEEPS pinching...

End Rant.

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11-08-2011, 12:40 PM
  #119
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If anything we need to be asking around for D...Frankly our D is slow, and they can't keep up with other teams top lines. Lundin may not have been everyones favorite shutdown defender, but he was always out there against the Ovechkins the Crosbys and he didn't give them space or room to move.

Now we have Grampa Kubi pinching EVERY freaking play, and getting caught out of position for an oddman rush. Not only is he old and slow, but it seems like he is just as forgetful because he KEEPS pinching...
A starting point for good trading partners would be taking a look at the struggling teams right now with expiring contracts. St.Louis, Columbus, Calgary, Anaheim, NY Islanders and Carolina immediately come to mind, but Carolina's in our division and Calgary, Columbus, NY Isles and Anaheim don't have a surplus of d so we most likely wouldn't make a deal with any of them. Then there are the teams doing well with a surplus of defensemen like Toronto, Dallas and Buffalo.

If I had to speculate, this would be the market for potentially available defensemen:

St.Louis: Colaiacovo, Jackman, Huskins
Buffalo: Sekera, Weber, Gragnani
Toronto: Franson
Dallas: Robidas, Grossman

Of that group, the most intriguing ones are Grossman, Colaiacovo, Jackman, Franson and Robidas imo. I would want them in that order as well, and any would be an upgrade to our current defense (Colaiacovo's injury history aside).

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11-09-2011, 08:38 AM
  #120
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Haha, Carlos injury history? His career is one giant injury. Stay WAY WAY WAY the **** away from him.

I'd love Gragnani, though. Great kid that needs some polish.

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11-09-2011, 05:46 PM
  #121
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Jakub Stepanek is impressing in the KHL. He's only 25 so he may be a low risk option(no NHL then back to Russia) if a goalie isn't acquired around the draft and the UFA crop isn't too bright. There's always Fasth as well. Julius Hudacek(Södertälje) is a guy I'm really interested in though.

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11-09-2011, 06:19 PM
  #122
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Jakub Stepanek is impressing in the KHL. He's only 25 so he may be a low risk option(no NHL then back to Russia) if a goalie isn't acquired around the draft and the UFA crop isn't too bright. There's always Fasth as well. Julius Hudacek(Södertälje) is a guy I'm really interested in though.
Low risk, but potentially high stress if it's only the NHL or KHL for him.

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11-11-2011, 09:41 AM
  #123
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just to throw some fuel onto the fire.

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Know this: Nabokov dying to leave, making no secret about it. Family still in CA. #Isles dying to get down to 2 goalies.
http://twitter.com/#!/ChrisBottaNHL/...59337557491712

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11-11-2011, 10:13 AM
  #124
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just to throw some fuel onto the fire.
Curtis McElhinney: The Legend Continues

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11-15-2011, 10:51 PM
  #125
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So where do the majority here lean? We need to look outside the organization for a goalie or Tik is still our future?

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