HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Reactions to the Trap

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-10-2011, 08:32 AM
  #26
phillyfanatic
Registered User
 
phillyfanatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Ottawa, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,631
vCash: 500
If you want the 1-3-1 that Tampa plays out of hockey the solution is simple. If the other team does not pursue the puck and simply sits in the neutral zone as Tampa did last night, whistle, faceoff in the defending teams zone. The point of that system is to prevent you from getting into the offensive zone with numbers, so - reverse it and if you do it, automatic entry into the zone.

What the Flyers did is perfect. Any team that sees this can simply sit on the puck, Ref sees that the team is not pursuing the puck and setting a trap, whistle. Done.

phillyfanatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2011, 08:52 AM
  #27
BringBackStevens
Registered User
 
BringBackStevens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 12,153
vCash: 500
As long as they don't blow the play dead and call defensive zone draws like they did in the beginning of the game, I'm ok with the league just letting it be. You don't have to outlaw that style of play but it shouldn't be encouraged either, and that's what those face offs were doing.

I think the flyers approach was smart in some ways, but it also didnt play to our strengths, either

BringBackStevens is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2011, 09:04 AM
  #28
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 111,103
vCash: 500
The Devils at least always sent the first guy in.


The Flyers are the road team. They're not there to entertain Tampa's fans. Regardless, they come here in December. If Tampa wants to play a 0-5, I hope we do the same thing. Laviolette has been known for a long time to play an aggressive, up-tempo style. He's not playing scared. And he's the one with the ring, not Guy Boucher.

Regardless, we got a point, and if we win our 2 home games and out-point them, then we still win the season series. I have no problem shortening the game if the other team has no intentions of forechecking and retrieving the puck.


Don't worry about it guys. For once, it seems that the court of public opinion is on our side.

GKJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2011, 09:08 AM
  #29
FlyersCup08
Registered User
 
FlyersCup08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 944
vCash: 500
This was brought up in the TSN comments section, but can this "system" even be considered a 1-3-1?

Looking at the fact they have a COMPLETE lack of a forechecker, I think they're actually playing an 0-4-1.

Remember, even the 1-2-2 trap played by the Devils had a forechecker.

FlyersCup08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2011, 09:13 AM
  #30
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 111,103
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersCup08 View Post
This was brought up in the TSN comments section, but can this "system" even be considered a 1-3-1?

Looking at the fact they have a COMPLETE lack of a forechecker, I think they're actually playing an 0-4-1.

Remember, even the 1-2-2 trap played by the Devils had a forechecker.
The forechecker was supposed to force the to play to one side or the other, and you had three guys on the puck. Hence why it was called the trap.

GKJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2011, 09:13 AM
  #31
facts
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 885
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I want to point out that this is not a traditional trap, it's an even more dramatic version that pretty much over-emphasizes what the trap is in theory.

I will also point out that during the intermission Jonesy and co. were talking about taking the trapezoid out completely. That would be disastrous if some team played this 1-3-1. That said, not allowing the goalie to go behind the net at all seems like a much better plan.

Then again, without a rule change about players in the neutral zone, we're doomed to either trap hockey or dump and chase hockey forever.
Agree totally, the part that is causing all the stir is that the way the 1-3-1 looks and how obvious it is. I am not sure as to how the flyers are to blame here, tampa is trying to force a turn over and the flyers are not wanting to turn it over. bottom line no standing still in the neutral zone. I did chuckle however when they were showing the full length of the rink and Giroux was skating around in their zone. Guy Boucher has been referred to the new breed of nhl coach and he has done nothing but implement a trap system.

facts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2011, 09:25 AM
  #32
MrHockey1982
Registered User
 
MrHockey1982's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 1,186
vCash: 500
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=380075

Article on the incredibly boring and annoying trap.

MrHockey1982 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2011, 09:29 AM
  #33
FreshPerspective
We don't need one!
 
FreshPerspective's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Italy
Posts: 10,812
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHockey1982 View Post
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=380075

Article on the incredibly boring and annoying trap.
This quote sums it up...the Tampa system is all about doing nothing..just standing there. The Flyers obliged and made them look like Rick Perry in a national debate....good on them!

Quote:
TSN's Wednesday Night Hockey panel was asked if there should be a penalty for "illegal defence" like there is in the NBA.

"Yes, this is typically something that could really hurt hockey," said former NHL head coach Marc Crawford. "Fans don't want to watch that type of a system where nothing is happening. I think unfortunately this is absolutely something that the league will have to address."

FreshPerspective is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2011, 09:38 AM
  #34
Chris Pronger
Valar morghulis
 
Chris Pronger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,270
vCash: 50
i would run them over. Heads down, helmet first with a brand new 5-0-0 tactic

Chris Pronger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2011, 09:44 AM
  #35
Unstable
Registered User
 
Unstable's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Exiled in NoVA
Country: United States
Posts: 4,110
vCash: 500
So apparently Devils fans are pro-trap.

This is a new and fascinating development.

Unstable is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2011, 09:55 AM
  #36
MrHockey1982
Registered User
 
MrHockey1982's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 1,186
vCash: 500
I'm thinking, what if we kept all of our players in the defensive zone, then had the 4 players without the puck charge full speed at the guy at the blue line and pass the puck to him right before he gets destroyed. Would that tactic be legal?

MrHockey1982 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2011, 10:10 AM
  #37
Adriatic
Registered User
 
Adriatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,665
vCash: 500
I'm from Montreal and happened to be watching the game last night against Tampa. I'm no Flyers fan by any stretch but I just had to come here and express my new found respect and appreciation for the Flyers organisation. I don't know who's responsible for what happened last night, whether it's the coach, gm or whoever..but I absolutely f**kin' loved it. On behalf of hockey fans everywhere thank you for doing it. Just wish they had pulled it off it OT and won the game to stuff it in their faces.

Adriatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2011, 10:13 AM
  #38
Bernie Parent 1974
Registered User
 
Bernie Parent 1974's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Country: United States
Posts: 3,210
vCash: 500
Quote:
Tampa is 8-5-2. So five other guys out there have figured out a way to deal with it, Pete.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2011/...tor_mind_trap/


ugh

Bernie Parent 1974 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2011, 10:30 AM
  #39
phillyfanatic
Registered User
 
phillyfanatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Ottawa, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,631
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
I wish I could punch Spector in his smug face.

phillyfanatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2011, 10:36 AM
  #40
FlyersCup08
Registered User
 
FlyersCup08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 944
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHockey1982 View Post
I'm thinking, what if we kept all of our players in the defensive zone, then had the 4 players without the puck charge full speed at the guy at the blue line and pass the puck to him right before he gets destroyed. Would that tactic be legal?
I thought the exact same thing. Would probably be charging, but worth it.

FlyersCup08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2011, 10:36 AM
  #41
FreshPerspective
We don't need one!
 
FreshPerspective's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Italy
Posts: 10,812
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernie Parent 1974 View Post
Well the author has a point to an extent (since we lost) and I have criticized Lavy for not exactly being the most adaptable and cerebral coaches as we saw last year in the playoffs (Boston) and some this year with the personnel decisions. The thing is that he decided to address the situation in the manner he did even though Boudreau was the progenitor and I'll give him some props but yeah next two games in Dec I'd like to see him try and continue to think out of the box and devise a scheme that actually exposes Tampa and where we wind up winning and having more shots and quality chances.

The "I won't play if you won't play" was more of a statement than a tactic IMO although I do agree that Lavy will need to be a bit more creative..we shall see if he has it in him but at least he's thinking...

FreshPerspective is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2011, 10:38 AM
  #42
td_ice
Peter shows the way
 
td_ice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 20,004
vCash: 500
Good job Flyers. I personally liked PL's decision.

td_ice is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2011, 11:02 AM
  #43
thelos
Bunk
 
thelos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,614
vCash: 500
We should try a Flying V next time.

thelos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2011, 11:03 AM
  #44
Larry44
Flyers Tank Nation
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,193
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coutsiephan View Post
Well the author has a point to an extent (since we lost) and I have criticized Lavy for not exactly being the most adaptable and cerebral coaches as we saw last year in the playoffs (Boston) and some this year with the personnel decisions. The thing is that he decided to address the situation in the manner he did even though Boudreau was the progenitor and I'll give him some props but yeah next two games in Dec I'd like to see him try and continue to think out of the box and devise a scheme that actually exposes Tampa and where we wind up winning and having more shots and quality chances.

The "I won't play if you won't play" was more of a statement than a tactic IMO although I do agree that Lavy will need to be a bit more creative..we shall see if he has it in him but at least he's thinking...
I didn't get to see the game, just some highlights. I get the point, and I like making it, but in the end it didn't work.

Perhaps the way to really do it is to just bring the puck up ice and flip it into the air to their D (so as to avoid icing) and then have the Flyers back up in their zone the same way and wait for them to come up ice. Beat the trap with a trap.

On the other hand, Terry Murray's Flyers spent a lot time working on beating the trap by a lot of short passes D to D. to go around the lead forechecker, whose role was to direct play to one side or the other.

What it all means is simple: there's never a dull, drama-free day in Flyer land....

Larry44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2011, 11:28 AM
  #45
FreshPerspective
We don't need one!
 
FreshPerspective's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: Italy
Posts: 10,812
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
I didn't get to see the game, just some highlights. I get the point, and I like making it, but in the end it didn't work.

Perhaps the way to really do it is to just bring the puck up ice and flip it into the air to their D (so as to avoid icing) and then have the Flyers back up in their zone the same way and wait for them to come up ice. Beat the trap with a trap.

On the other hand, Terry Murray's Flyers spent a lot time working on beating the trap by a lot of short passes D to D. to go around the lead forechecker, whose role was to direct play to one side or the other.

What it all means is simple: there's never a dull, drama-free day in Flyer land....
Yeah..it almost worked since we scored first but like Jagr said they just couldn't finish it off. Meltzer though is right in saying it was the penalties etc that didn't help..then of course we got our typical breakdowns by Carle and Mesz. Bryz also needed to be better with that rebound. Just another example of how when you play teams like Tampa it's a game of inches and we were the ones who wound up giving an inch.

Anyway..I don't think I would like to see what you are proposing. Sounds like a badminton match.

I hear ya on Murray...at least he was more tactical and that is what I want to see the next two games against Tampa in Dec and beyond. I mean if the league isn't going to address it then Tampa is just going to play their game and nothing you can do but try and counter it. If we continue to play chicken with them nobody is going to look good and particularly Lavy since he's the one with the highest scoring team. He made his point now he has to make a larger point.

Anyway here is a piece about the NHL needing a shot clock equivalent

Quote:
After Flyers delay breaks Tampa trap, does NHL need shot clock?

No matter what style of trap a hockey team plays — the Guy Boucher 1-3-1, the Detroit Red Wings' left-wing lock, Jacques Lemaire placing a pillow over the mouth and nose of entertainment — the systems' success depends on the failure of others.

Essentially, in their tragicomedy of a hockey game against the Tampa Bay Lightning on Wednesday, the Philadelphia Flyers trapped the trap.

They skated around in their own zone, ragging the puck and refusing to advance. The Lightning remained in their system, refusing to attack on the forecheck. It was the single most compelling and embarrassing thing the NHL has put on television that didn't involve the Guardian Project.

Referee Rob Martell blew the whistle twice for defensive zone draws. It's all he could do. There's nothing in the rulebook that prevents the Flyers from doing what they did last night. Flyers Coach Peter Laviolette was even hazy about why the Flyers were whistled: "The first one, they said the puck needed to be moving. We were moving on the second one, and it was blown again. Not sure why the first one needs to be moving."

(Somewhere up there, Roger Nielson was smiling down on Tampa Bay, before going back to breaking down tape for his saintly beer league team ...)

The Flyers lost the game, 2-1 in overtime, but they won the chess match. "They eventually had to change their system, and that is something that we wanted them to do," said Scott Hartnell(notes) to the Philadelphia Daily News.

Check and mate.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puc...rn=nhl-wp17084

FreshPerspective is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2011, 11:47 AM
  #46
LePalle
Registered User
 
LePalle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 1,838
vCash: 500
Anyone else excited to see this covered in 24/7?

LePalle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2011, 11:48 AM
  #47
drownedsailors
Registered User
 
drownedsailors's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Earth
Country: United States
Posts: 1,948
vCash: 500
But Tampa won.

I don't get what all the fuss is about, I mean the trap has been around for decades (the Devils won 3 cups with it) I really hate it; but exactly what did Lavy hope to accomplish?

Coming into this game Tampa was without Ohlund and Hedman...in the meantime Philly came in with the best offense in the league averaging like 5 goals a game. Shouldn't you stick to a system that gives you the best chance at winning the game?

This whole overreaction over something that's been around for SO long just seems really weird...at the end of the day we still haven't found a way to beat Tampa's 1-3-1 in regulation yet; if I was a coach I'd be much more concerned about that than trying to "show" my displeasure for an ancient system.

drownedsailors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2011, 11:48 AM
  #48
kicksave27
Registered User
 
kicksave27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,251
vCash: 500
Don't forget bettman came from the NBA, and they had a rule against zone defense. I'd be totally shocked if something didn't come out of the meetings, like if you get in to a trap 5 on 5 without forechecking you either get a penalty or defensive zone draw. That would be awesome and I wish they thought of it 10 years ago instead of killing hockey for 1 year.

If the flyers could have cashed in on a few more PP's it wouldn't have been such a frustrating game to watch, that was the most pissed off I've been after a loss in a long time, it was like 90's devils all over again.

kicksave27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2011, 11:49 AM
  #49
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Beefitor
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 39,124
vCash: 500
the 7 power plays we handed them did nothing to help.

__________________
Down in the basement, I've got a Craftsman lathe. Show it to the children when they misbehave.
Beef Invictus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-10-2011, 11:50 AM
  #50
thelos
Bunk
 
thelos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,614
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
the 7 power plays we handed them did nothing to help.
yeah bad penalties. Still think the Shannon one was ******** though.

thelos is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:58 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.