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RE: doug maclean's comments on Kadri

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Old
11-10-2011, 06:03 PM
  #301
philer Bozel
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Originally Posted by Alazais View Post
This is an argument I have not been able to wrap my head around lately. They play two extremely different games. Frattin, is an abled body forechecker who will get in deep and hit, battle in the corners and generally just play a game that is more suited to someone to someone who doesn't always have to put the puck in the net. He deserves to be up more than Kadri if only for the role they need filled and the style of play that Frattin has played.

I don't get all the Kadri lovers and the absurdity of their arguments.
In fact, I lump the Kadri lovers in the same group as the Wilson haters. Which is absurd, uneducated and generally just incompetent posters who are stat trackers and not game watchers.
Frattin has one point. I hate when people use this argument. We might as well have a third line filled with colton orr's. Pathetic that our best prospect and 2nd/3rd most skilled forward is in the minor while lucky guys lile crabb and guys who do nothing like frattin are above him. Dont get me wrong crabb has been great and i love frattin but when crabb goes on a 20 game pointless streak and frattin has 2 points in 30 games wilson will look like a bigher idiot then he already is.

I really wish kadri could play here. But now i hope he gets traded to montreal. And then in the conference finals between the leafs he destroys us with 25 points in the series while scoring the game winner in game seven overtime after dangling komiserek and sticking the middle finger at wilson as he skates by. Then kadri single handingly wins the cup for montreal.

**** you wilson. I hope you're fired.

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11-10-2011, 06:08 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by philer Bozel View Post
Frattin has one point. I hate when people use this argument. We might as well have a third line filled with colton orr's. Pathetic that our best prospect and 2nd/3rd most skilled forward is in the minor while lucky guys lile crabb and guys who do nothing like frattin are above him. Dont get me wrong crabb has been great and i love frattin but when crabb goes on a 20 game pointless streak and frattin has 2 points in 30 games wilson will look like a bigher idiot then he already is.

I really wish kadri could play here. But now i hope he gets traded to montreal. And then in the conference finals between the leafs he destroys us with 25 points in the series while scoring the game winner in game seven overtime after dangling komiserek and sticking the middle finger at wilson as he skates by. Then kadri single handingly wins the cup for montreal.

**** you wilson. I hope you're fired.
hahaha

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11-10-2011, 06:09 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by dynrehab View Post
He'll be there soon enough. Sucks for him the injury happened when it did. Now he's just got to man up and prove he belongs.
Hopefully it's sooner. He has lots to bring to the table, Great hands and vision, Dangles, can beat players 1on 1..even 1on2 or three for that matter. I'm sure he could help the pathetic PP, he can't do any worse than what they have now.

So he loses the puck now and then, Someone please show me any player that doesn't lose the puck and I will give you my new Leaf sweater!!!!

Everyone loses the puck...People make to much of a big deal over it only because it's Kadri. In the last 2 games I can't remember any Leaf who didn't lose the puck constantly. Right now the whole team defense sucks so why just put the emphasis on Kadri's defense. Kadri would fit right in and maybe notch a few points.

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11-10-2011, 06:13 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by agreement View Post
i am paraphrasing, but he thinks there's something up with this organization and Kadri. mentioned his poor AHL effort: 6 GP, 4pts, 4 assists, -4. can't understand why he's continually not been given a chance with the big club.

My question for you is:

Does Kadri want to be here?

what's the buzz?

what do you think?


Please/Thanks
He's not being given a shot because he's simply not good enough, his game hasn't improved much since being drafted. Still very prone to overhandling the puck, bad turnovers, poor defense and below average play without the puck in general. He's still skinny/weak, I like that he's putting in the effort to hit a bit more but they're ineffective hits because he hasn't got stronger. His shot remains pretty mediocre too, and in terms of his personality he still seems pretty immature. He's got magical hands, but it takes more than that to be an NHLer.

When we drafted him he was a high risk, high reward type, a guy with magical hands who had a lot of flaws in his game that we hoped he could correct. If he ever rounds out his game and matures as both a player and a person, he'll be a good NHLer, but until that point he's not ready for the league.

He's often compared to Ribeiro in terms of both game and personality, and I personally think it's a very good comparison. It wasn't until Ribeiro's 4th post-draft season that he really established himself as a legit NHLer, and it wasn't until his 6th post-draft season that he started to put up major points. Hopefully Kadri is just slow to develop like Ribeiro was, because Ribeiro eventually became a really good NHLer, and I hope Kadri does too, he's in his 3rd post-draft season right now. We just need to hold on to him and hope that he puts it together with time, not everyone makes it right away. Many of the top Calder candidates last season were 2007 draft picks (guys like Logan Couture, PK Subban, Ryan McDonagh, Kevin Shattenkirk, Jonathon Blum, etc.), all were in their 4th post-draft season last year, which is equivalent to NEXT year for Kadri. These guys all appear to be on their way to becoming very good NHLers, if Kadri doesn't break into the league full time until 2012/13 he'd be on the same timeline as them.


Last edited by ponder: 11-10-2011 at 06:24 PM.
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11-10-2011, 06:19 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by ponder View Post
He's not being given a shot because he's simply not good enough, his game hasn't improved much since being drafted. Still very prone to overhandling the puck, bad turnovers, poor defense and below average play without the puck in general. He's still skinny/weak, I like that he's putting in the effort to hit a bit more but they're ineffective hits because he hasn't got stronger. His shot remains pretty mediocre too, and in terms of his personality he still seems pretty immature. He's got magical hands, but it takes more than that to be an NHLer.

When we drafted him he was a high risk, high reward type, a guy with magical hands who had a lot of flaws in his game that we hoped he could correct. If he ever rounds out his game and matures as both a player and a person, he'll be a good NHLer, but until that point he's not ready for the league.
I really don't know what you see, but he's clearly better than the whole 3rd and 4th line!!!!
And maybe given a chance could be better than some on the 1st and 2nd.

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11-10-2011, 06:21 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by philer Bozel View Post
I really wish kadri could play here. But now i hope he gets traded to montreal. And then in the conference finals between the leafs he destroys us with 25 points in the series while scoring the game winner in game seven overtime after dangling komiserek and sticking the middle finger at wilson as he skates by. Then kadri single handingly wins the cup for montreal.

**** you wilson. I hope you're fired.
If he gets traded I could care less if he ever played another game.

Being a Leafs' fan I'm not into cheering for other teams to beat them especially in the playoffs.

Kadri isn't the Leafs.

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11-10-2011, 06:35 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
If he gets traded I could care less if he ever played another game.

Being a Leafs' fan I'm not into cheering for other teams to beat them especially in the playoffs.

Kadri isn't the Leafs.
If you've seen my post you would know im a die hard leafs fan. But im tired of seeing one of our best players in the minors while some scub takes his spot it has happened for 3 straight years (season 2 could be an exception i guess) in his rookie season he should of made the team best forward on the team. He got demoted which was understandable. Season 2 they asked kadri to fatten up which slowed him down. This season hes been perfectly fine and is better then everyone currently on our third line. But instead of letting our star prospects develop and learn the game up here. Hes in the minors so he can what learn how to be a pk specalist? Pathetic

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11-10-2011, 06:45 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by philer Bozel View Post
If you've seen my post you would know im a die hard leafs fan. But im tired of seeing one of our best players in the minors while some scub takes his spot it has happened for 3 straight years (season 2 could be an exception i guess) in his rookie season he should of made the team best forward on the team. He got demoted which was understandable. Season 2 they asked kadri to fatten up which slowed him down. This season hes been perfectly fine and is better then everyone currently on our third line. But instead of letting our star prospects develop and learn the game up here. Hes in the minors so he can what learn how to be a pk specalist? Pathetic
I feel your pain bro, only on the Leafs do they want to turn a highly skilled forward into a defensive specialist. It boggles my mind.

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11-10-2011, 06:54 PM
  #309
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Originally Posted by OlderTimer View Post
I feel your pain bro, only on the Leafs do they want to turn a highly skilled forward into a defensive specialist. It boggles my mind.
Most people around here piss and moan about how good Detroit and San Jose's (by far the best in the league) player development and can't stand the fact that a barely 21 year old player is in the AHL with a similarly developed 22 year old.

If there is ANY injustice here whatsoever it is that Colborne, who is outpacing Kadri immensely, is the in the AHL.

Many players have had this type of development and turned out just fine.


Last edited by anderson3133: 11-10-2011 at 07:05 PM.
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11-10-2011, 07:08 PM
  #310
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I really don't know what you see, but he's clearly better than the whole 3rd and 4th line!!!!
And maybe given a chance could be better than some on the 1st and 2nd.
The 4th line get limited minutes and are there to provide a high energy, physical, grinding game, while helping out on the PP and sometimes. This is the case on virtually every team in the league. Kadri has no place on a 4th line.

In terms of Kadri vs. our various other 3rd liners, I think Lombardi, Bozak (when on the 3rd line), Army (when healthy) and Crabb are all ahead of him in terms of their all around games. Obviously Kadri has better hands than these guys, but they're better at everything else. Kadri is arguably a better player than Frattin, but between those two I think it comes down to attitude, Frattin seems like a good team guy while Kadri still seems like a bit of a brat. I feel like the Leafs promoting Frattin over Kadri is their way of saying "we're serious Naz, you ACTUALLY DO have to mature as a player and a person if you want to make the show, we're not giving you a spot just because it's been a while since you've been drafted, you have to earn that spot with legitimate improvements to your game/weaknesses."

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11-10-2011, 07:10 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by anderson3133 View Post
Most people around here piss and moan about how good Detroit and San Jose's (by far the best in the league) player development and can't stand the fact that a barely 21 year old player is in the AHL with a similarly developed 22 year old.

If there is ANY injustice here whatsoever it is that Colborne, who is outpacing Kadri immensely, is the in the AHL.

Many players have had this type of development and turned out just fine.
Kadri looked great in camp, Colborne did not. Where is the injustice???

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11-10-2011, 07:21 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by ponder View Post
The 4th line get limited minutes and are there to provide a high energy, physical, grinding game, while helping out on the PP and sometimes. This is the case on virtually every team in the league. Kadri has no place on a 4th line.

In terms of Kadri vs. our various other 3rd liners, I think Lombardi, Bozak (when on the 3rd line), Army (when healthy) and Crabb are all ahead of him in terms of their all around games. Obviously Kadri has better hands than these guys, but they're better at everything else. Kadri is arguably a better player than Frattin, but between those two I think it comes down to attitude, Frattin seems like a good team guy while Kadri still seems like a bit of a brat. I feel like the Leafs promoting Frattin over Kadri is their way of saying "we're serious Naz, you ACTUALLY DO have to mature as a player and a person if you want to make the show, we're not giving you a spot just because it's been a while since you've been drafted, you have to earn that spot with legitimate improvements to your game/weaknesses."
What happened to it's business? Now it's personal.

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11-10-2011, 07:37 PM
  #313
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Kessel just scratched his ear on TV with his middle finger. This stuff is like the plague! So much immaturity.

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11-10-2011, 07:40 PM
  #314
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Kessel just scratched his ear on TV with his middle finger. This stuff is like the plague! So much immaturity.
As long as they dont pick their noses I am fine with it.

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11-10-2011, 07:53 PM
  #315
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As long as they dont pick their noses I am fine with it.

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11-10-2011, 08:26 PM
  #316
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having patience doesn't mean a kid will develop into the nhler we want him to be.

should jiri tlusty still be in the leafs' organization, and should we still be "having patience" with him? he's only 23, drafted 13th overall just 5 years ago. should we still be "having patience" for him to become a legit top 6 forward for the leafs?

i guess the question is....at what point is the determination made that a kid isn't going to be the player we had hoped?
When people stop making poor comparisons like Tlusty vs. Kadri

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11-10-2011, 10:50 PM
  #317
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There's no conspiracy and as a guy who's just beginning his second year pro I think it's too early to say he's not in the Leafs plans or that he's fallen out of favour.

The simple fact of the matter is he's playing where he belongs right now.

He had a good, not great, season in the AHL last year. In his NHL stints he's done nothing to force the team to keep him there. And his AHL performance in six games this year has been pretty much awful.

He's in the AHL because that's where his play dictates he should be right now. He still has a ton of upside but he does not deserve to be an NHL regular.

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11-10-2011, 11:31 PM
  #318
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i wouldnt be surprised if kadri was traded, but it will be a package deal where he goes with a few other young players for a top line guy. burke is just waiting for the right opportunity.

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11-10-2011, 11:38 PM
  #319
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This is similar to how Burke handled Bobby Ryan. He was up and down. I remember at the time people were wondering if he'd ever make it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not comparing Ryan to Kadri, just the situations and how they were handled.

I don't see why Burke would want to sabotage his #1 prospect. There are obviously things Burke and Wilson legitimately think he needs to work on in the AHL.

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11-10-2011, 11:46 PM
  #320
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you wanna know the best way to make sure that Frattin never develops his offensive game, and just becomes the plug he looks like now?

keep him up in the NHL, where he's too scared to even try and make an offensive move with the puck.

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11-10-2011, 11:49 PM
  #321
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This is similar to how Burke handled Bobby Ryan. He was up and down. I remember at the time people were wondering if he'd ever make it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not comparing Ryan to Kadri, just the situations and how they were handled.

I don't see why Burke would want to sabotage his #1 prospect. There are obviously things Burke and Wilson legitimately think he needs to work on in the AHL.
He also did this with Kesler as well.

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11-11-2011, 12:22 AM
  #322
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you wanna know the best way to make sure that Frattin never develops his offensive game, and just becomes the plug he looks like now?

keep him up in the NHL, where he's too scared to even try and make an offensive move with the puck.
I agree that Frattin could benefit from a stint in the A, he'll probably go down when Armstrong comes back.

Kadri needs to break into the top 6 cause I don't think they're willing to let him play in the bottom 6, though it couldn't hurt to try it.

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11-11-2011, 01:15 AM
  #323
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Kadri looked great in camp, Colborne did not. Where is the injustice???
Right but Colborne has been producing steadily over the course of 11 or so games and even claimed AHL player of the month. Kadri was injured in camp, thus his spot was given to Frattin and he has yet to prove otherwise since being sent down. Frattin outpaced him while playing alongside Kadri in the AHL.

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11-11-2011, 05:47 AM
  #324
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could kadri finish bozos chances?

doug maclean is a tool. a monkey could have done a better job in columbus.

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11-11-2011, 06:51 AM
  #325
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Originally Posted by LeafsDiary View Post
When people stop making poor comparisons like Tlusty vs. Kadri
i didn't compare them, just used tlusty as an example.

but its actually a very good comparison, they have many similarities in their career paths.

do you have any answers, or anything constructive to add?

reading many of the responses in this thread, you'd think developing a legit top 6 nhl forward was as simple as "having patience"...which i suppose means not speaking about them until they are what we want them to be.

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