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Coburn signs multi-year contract extension (details in post #238, per the Daily News)

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Old
11-10-2011, 06:28 PM
  #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Well you can also look at it like this... From when he got his contract 3 years ago, is he currently worth/paying 1.3 million better than he was then?
The cap has gone up, as have contracts. I don't really know what people thought was going to happen with Coburn. $4.5 is right about where other D-Men of similar statute as has been pointed out are signing for.

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11-10-2011, 06:37 PM
  #227
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Cap Geek says Coburn has a modified NTC.

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A closer look at #NHL #Flyers contract for Braydon Coburn: $1.5m in signing bonuses plus a modified NTC
https://twitter.com/#!/capgeek/statu...71836885024769

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Old
11-10-2011, 07:09 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Well you can also look at it like this... From when he got his contract 3 years ago, is he currently worth/paying 1.3 million better than he was then?
That's not how it works. He was RFA then.

Also that contract was July 2010. This contract goes into effect July 2012.

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Old
11-10-2011, 08:57 PM
  #229
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Coburn has a modified NTC according to a tweet from capgeek, as well as bonuses.

Edit: Beaten by Libertine!


Last edited by MsWoof: 11-10-2011 at 09:19 PM.
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Old
11-10-2011, 09:37 PM
  #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
The cap has gone up, as have contracts. I don't really know what people thought was going to happen with Coburn. $4.5 is right about where other D-Men of similar statute as has been pointed out are signing for.
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Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
That's not how it works. He was RFA then.

Also that contract was July 2010. This contract goes into effect July 2012.
Here is how I look at it. If we consider the cap going up around 3 mil next season, we can pretty much assume Carle is all but gone. Homer will no doubt say the "we will try our best to sign him" but no matter what Homer thinks, we dont have the salary cap. Carle is going to ask for right around coburn money, maybe even closer to the 5 mil mark. Does he deserve it? Absolutely not. But like you both said, its the current market so it doesnt matter.

JVR will start his new contract, which he makes almost 3 mil more. Now Coburn is also getting a raise, around 1.5 mil more, thats 4.5 mil going into contract extensions. Add on the 3.0 and subtract the 4.5 we get 1.5. Take away Carle's around 3 mil and we are left with 1.5.

Now two there are two other players that need contracts, Jagr and Voracek. For what they do, their on pretty cheap contracts. Now, If we count the increase of 4.5 mil and just say for argument sake we keep Jagr and Voracek for exactly the same, we are going to be going into next season 1 d-man short (will need a Carle replacement for less than 1.5 mil). Remember Schenn, if he makes the team, wont get that cap reduction he got this season. It only effects his first season, meaning there is a extra few K that will be gone.

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11-11-2011, 12:36 AM
  #231
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Matt Carle is gone before or at the deadline no way we can afford to pay him.Traded for picks or prospects.....

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Old
11-11-2011, 12:46 AM
  #232
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One of our high payed forwards could also be traded at the deadline or off season..........

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Old
11-11-2011, 12:50 PM
  #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
You missed the worst signing:



Seriously, if you ask any knowledgeable fan of another team, they realize how important and how good Coburn is.

Two seasons ago, we made it to the Finals playing only 4D and with Leighton/Boucher in net! Frankly, the main reason we ended up losing was that Pronger and Kimmo were hurt and worn down. Only Carle and Coby had any legs left at all by game 6.

.
YUP. And that's why this team will go nowhere with an elderly Pronger and Timo in the ranks.

If Carle is let go and Timo retires, will that free enough to get both Suter and Weber?

I want Suter and Weber to replace Pronger and Timo. Prongs and Timo are the old generation, the otehr two are up n coming.

A top 2 of Suter and Weber, bolstered by Mesz and Coburn, would be ideal.

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Old
11-11-2011, 01:15 PM
  #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Here is how I look at it. If we consider the cap going up around 3 mil next season, we can pretty much assume Carle is all but gone. Homer will no doubt say the "we will try our best to sign him" but no matter what Homer thinks, we dont have the salary cap. Carle is going to ask for right around coburn money, maybe even closer to the 5 mil mark. Does he deserve it? Absolutely not. But like you both said, its the current market so it doesnt matter.

JVR will start his new contract, which he makes almost 3 mil more. Now Coburn is also getting a raise, around 1.5 mil more, thats 4.5 mil going into contract extensions. Add on the 3.0 and subtract the 4.5 we get 1.5. Take away Carle's around 3 mil and we are left with 1.5.

Now two there are two other players that need contracts, Jagr and Voracek. For what they do, their on pretty cheap contracts. Now, If we count the increase of 4.5 mil and just say for argument sake we keep Jagr and Voracek for exactly the same, we are going to be going into next season 1 d-man short (will need a Carle replacement for less than 1.5 mil). Remember Schenn, if he makes the team, wont get that cap reduction he got this season. It only effects his first season, meaning there is a extra few K that will be gone.
Jagr will likely be gone for the cap reasons you point out so there's some relief. They have plenty of scoring anyway and defense is next for rebuilding, however that ultimately turns out. Carle is due for a raise and Timonen is nearing the end of his contract/career so they have to decide a lot.

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Old
11-11-2011, 01:17 PM
  #235
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Overpaid.

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Old
11-11-2011, 04:47 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by rban View Post
YUP. And that's why this team will go nowhere with an elderly Pronger and Timo in the ranks.

If Carle is let go and Timo retires, will that free enough to get both Suter and Weber?

I want Suter and Weber to replace Pronger and Timo. Prongs and Timo are the old generation, the otehr two are up n coming.

A top 2 of Suter and Weber, bolstered by Mesz and Coburn, would be ideal.
And I want to win the lottery, be 8 feet tall and own Australia...

First, there is NO WAY that Nashville will let both Suter and Weber go. In fact, I heard David Poile on FAN590 say that the reason they signed Rinne for 7 x $7M was to demonstrate to Weber and Suter that the owners were committed to winning and will spend the money necessary to keep BOTH of them. They can offer both D $7M/year and still fit under the cap.

Second. Pronger is going nowhere, nor should he. Kimmo is going to be here for another year at least. You lack respect for what veteran D can offer. They both offer lots.

With Coburn secured, the next determination is whether to resign Carle and trade Meszaros, or let Carle walk (trade his rights before Draft?) and go with Mesz and Coby as 3/4, Gustafsson to replace Carle and Lilja and ? 6/7 next year.

I haven't done the cap math to figure out whether we could offer Carle the same contract as Coburn and still fit under the cap next year. It doesn't seem likely that we can keep the whole top 5 intact with Mesz as cheapest at $4M.

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Old
11-11-2011, 05:06 PM
  #237
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At this point it's good to have Coburn locked in and not have to worry about it based on where other contracts are "inflated" in the upcoming offseason. He has his up's and downs but combined with Meszaros we have two 26 year old defensemen who have that upside you want. Carle may be the one who leaves then?

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Old
11-11-2011, 08:11 PM
  #238
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This is how the Daily News is reporting Coburn's contract:

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/f...#ixzz1dRuSXOko

Quote:
A league source has passed along the structure Braydon Coburn’s freshly minted, four-year contract extension to the Daily News.

Coburn, 26, will be the league's 35th highest paid defenseman when his new $18 million contract kicks in next season. He was scheduled to become an unrestricted free agent on July 1 prior to completing a new deal on Wednesday.

Coburn will soon enjoy a modified no-trade clause, since will be at the minimum age of 27 by the time the deal starts. A modified no-trade clause usually works by submitting a list of 10 or 12 eligible teams where a player would accept a trade.

It is structured as follows:

2012-13: $4,000,000
2013-14: $4,500,000, with additional $1.0M signing bonus
2014-15: $4,000,000, with additional $500K signing bonus
2015-16: $4,000,000

His total compensation is $18 million. Since the NHL’s formula for computing salary cap hits is simply dividing total compensation by term of contract, his salary cap hit will be $4.5 million per season.

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Old
11-12-2011, 12:16 AM
  #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Now two there are two other players that need contracts, Jagr and Voracek. For what they do, their on pretty cheap contracts. Now, If we count the increase of 4.5 mil and just say for argument sake we keep Jagr and Voracek for exactly the same, we are going to be going into next season 1 d-man short (will need a Carle replacement for less than 1.5 mil). Remember Schenn, if he makes the team, wont get that cap reduction he got this season. It only effects his first season, meaning there is a extra few K that will be gone.

No one knows what will happen with the bonus cushion on the next CBA.

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Old
11-14-2011, 12:20 AM
  #240
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
Second. Pronger is going nowhere, nor should he. Kimmo is going to be here for another year at least. You lack respect for what veteran D can offer. They both offer lots.
Yes they do, when healthy. They offer zero if injured tho. That's my worry. Age and decrepitude.

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Old
11-14-2011, 04:26 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by rban View Post
Yes they do, when healthy. They offer zero if injured tho. That's my worry. Age and decrepitude.
It is always a worry, but you have to look at the individuals. They are both known for taking care of themselves, keeping in shape, getting proper rest, etc.

Until his run of extreme bad luck (broken foot, broken wrist/hand - from blocking shots) and recent eye injury, Pronger has been very durable over his career. And he's not that old, only 37, IIRC. He's got a few years left as as top Dman, then he'll be the best #3 in the league after that.

Kimmo's the same, and he didn't come to the NHL until he was 24 so he doesn't have as much NHL mileage on him as Pronger. He's also been pretty durable.

In any case, unless Kimmo retires early, and he shows no signs of it, we have them both wrapped up through next year, so no Suter or Weber for us.

The rest of this year will be spent deciding whether to keep Carle or Meszaros next year.

A huge part of that will be figuring out Carle's market value, what his agent thinks it is, what the gravevine says, etc. then deciding whether signing him will be too expensive (a la Leino) or whether they want to keep him and deal Meszaros.

Meszaros offers a lot more hitting, but he doesn't skate as well and isn't as good a partner for Pronger. Carle is a great partner for Pronger, but doesn't hit. I guess they'll have to decide which guy's skillset would be more easily replaced (i.e. can Gus fill Carle's shoes or would it be easier to find a hitter to replace Mesz in the 3rd pairing?

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Old
11-14-2011, 05:37 PM
  #242
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It's very possible both Meszaros and Carle could be gone at the end of this season. I'm thinking Holmgren gives the defense one more chance and if it blows up again in the off season, it's very likely Carle and Meszaros are gone. That's about 7.5 million in space cleared up right there.

I know the popular train of thought is Weber or Suter, but from some of the articles I've been reading about Nashville, you have to wonder whether the system they play in makes them look better than what they really are.

Dan Hamhuis was supposed to be a great defenseman as well and when he left Nashville for Vancouver, he didn't seem as great as what people were making him out to be. That's my concern about giving Suter or Weber 7.5 million a year - are they really that great or is it the system that makes them look better than what they really are?

If I'm Paul Holmgren, I see what it takes to pry a guy like Slava Voyonov out of of Los Angeles or what it takes to acquire someone like Brandon Gormley from Phoenix or Ian Cole from St. Louis. Those are guys on the cusp who are ready to break though, but because of the situation they're in, their respective teams are leaving them in the minors.

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Old
11-14-2011, 06:38 PM
  #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
It's very possible both Meszaros and Carle could be gone at the end of this season. I'm thinking Holmgren gives the defense one more chance and if it blows up again in the off season, it's very likely Carle and Meszaros are gone. That's about 7.5 million in space cleared up right there.

I know the popular train of thought is Weber or Suter, but from some of the articles I've been reading about Nashville, you have to wonder whether the system they play in makes them look better than what they really are.

Dan Hamhuis was supposed to be a great defenseman as well and when he left Nashville for Vancouver, he didn't seem as great as what people were making him out to be. That's my concern about giving Suter or Weber 7.5 million a year - are they really that great or is it the system that makes them look better than what they really are?

If I'm Paul Holmgren, I see what it takes to pry a guy like Slava Voyonov out of of Los Angeles or what it takes to acquire someone like Brandon Gormley from Phoenix or Ian Cole from St. Louis. Those are guys on the cusp who are ready to break though, but because of the situation they're in, their respective teams are leaving them in the minors.
Hamhuis was supposed to be good, not great. He certainly wasn't regarded on the level of those two. As far as I can tell he has been as advertised for Vancouver.

The thing with Suter and Weber is that I think they both help each other. Neither is going to look quite as good anywhere else as they do along side the other IMO. You're going to end up paying a $6.25 million dollar defensemen 7.5 million if you bring one of them in as UFAs (and that $6.25 UFA price). Now obviously a 6.25 million dollar d-man is still a hell of a player. Every year, only one or two guys have a season worthy of that kind of money (7.5).

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Old
11-16-2011, 10:07 AM
  #244
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It is always a worry, but you have to look at the individuals. They are both known for taking care of themselves, keeping in shape, getting proper rest, etc.

Until his run of extreme bad luck (broken foot, broken wrist/hand - from blocking shots) and recent eye injury, Pronger has been very durable over his career. And he's not that old, only 37, IIRC. He's got a few years left as as top Dman, then he'll be the best #3 in the league after that.
Fans love their team and their fav players and lose their objectivity sometimes.

Pronger has been durable, but of course it is easier to be durable when u are younger than when u are older.

Much of his broken bones has nothing to do with bad luck. The style of game he plays, he is guaranteed to be injured and not last long. Lidstrom is 41 but he plays a different style than Prongs. Dont think just cuz Niklas is performign well at 41 that Prongs will do the same.

No matter how fit he is, he will not last long. Most DMen who play at his level and his style of game are gone by 37 .. he has already cheated the odds and will not do so for much longer.

Write this down and bet me cash if u like. In 2 years time, Prongs will have endured mucho injuries and will either be gone or a shadow of his former self.

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Old
11-16-2011, 10:10 AM
  #245
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Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
Hamhuis was supposed to be good, not great. He certainly wasn't regarded on the level of those two. As far as I can tell he has been as advertised for Vancouver.

).
Xactly. For 4.5 mil, Hamhuis has performed magnificently. Ask Canuck fans what they think of his performance in POs last year.

Among Dmen, Hamhuis, Bieksa and Salo overperformed on that team in last yr POs.
While Ballard did awful and Edler disappointed as well.

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Old
11-16-2011, 10:51 AM
  #246
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Originally Posted by rban View Post
Fans love their team and their fav players and lose their objectivity sometimes.

Pronger has been durable, but of course it is easier to be durable when u are younger than when u are older.

Much of his broken bones has nothing to do with bad luck. The style of game he plays, he is guaranteed to be injured and not last long. Lidstrom is 41 but he plays a different style than Prongs. Dont think just cuz Niklas is performign well at 41 that Prongs will do the same.

No matter how fit he is, he will not last long. Most DMen who play at his level and his style of game are gone by 37 .. he has already cheated the odds and will not do so for much longer.

Write this down and bet me cash if u like. In 2 years time, Prongs will have endured mucho injuries and will either be gone or a shadow of his former self.
Pronger blocking a shot with his hand is because he was old?

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Old
11-16-2011, 11:30 AM
  #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rban View Post
Fans love their team and their fav players and lose their objectivity sometimes.

Pronger has been durable, but of course it is easier to be durable when u are younger than when u are older.

Much of his broken bones has nothing to do with bad luck. The style of game he plays, he is guaranteed to be injured and not last long. Lidstrom is 41 but he plays a different style than Prongs. Dont think just cuz Niklas is performign well at 41 that Prongs will do the same.

No matter how fit he is, he will not last long. Most DMen who play at his level and his style of game are gone by 37 .. he has already cheated the odds and will not do so for much longer.

Write this down and bet me cash if u like. In 2 years time, Prongs will have endured mucho injuries and will either be gone or a shadow of his former self.
I sir would love to take his bet with you...

2 years and if he is still out there kicking ass you owe up.

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Old
11-16-2011, 11:49 AM
  #248
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Pronger blocking a shot with his hand is because he was old?
His eye easily could have crushed that stick five years ago. Age is clearly the reason for his recent string of injuries.

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