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Old
11-10-2011, 07:41 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Beerz View Post
yet he still took actions that were within his power.
He could have gone to the police. That was also within his power, and what he should have done. Especially after he saw that the administration was dropping the ball and failing to take action. And *especially* since he knew that Sandusky had previously been investigated, in 1998, for inappropriately showering with a minor. And in fact that was the reason Sandusky retired from coaching following year. And the reason that Sundusky was told not to bring children on campus anymore.

It's not hard to connect the dots. Paterno took part in the coverup. He helped coverup for his friend, whom he knew, or had reason to believe, was a pedophile and sexual predator. He was content to let it go on, and even for Sandusky to keep his campus office and access, as long as he didn't victimize his kids on campus anymore.

Paterno is not a victim here.

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11-10-2011, 08:02 PM
  #102
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He could have gone to the police. That was also within his power, and what he should have done. Especially after he saw that the administration was dropping the ball and failing to take action. And *especially* since he knew that Sandusky had previously been investigated, in 1998, for inappropriately showering with a minor. And in fact that was the reason Sandusky retired from coaching following year. And the reason that Sundusky was told not to bring children on campus anymore.

It's not hard to connect the dots. Paterno took part in the coverup. He helped coverup for his friend, whom he knew, or had reason to believe, was a pedophile and sexual predator. He was content to let it go on, and even for Sandusky to keep his campus office and access, as long as he didn't victimize his kids on campus anymore.

Paterno is not a victim here.

Are you drawing your own conclusions?... Because I sure as hell didn't call Paterno a victim.

What part don't you understand...that he reported the accusations to Campus Police....who have full authority to investigate crimes and arrest people? ... He did what he thought was right...he did not cover it up... he reported it to his superiors and Campus Police.

The fact that Sandusky was a long time friend just compounded the situation.... Would you want to believe horrendous accusations against one of your close friends?

Just because they he Sandusky not to bring kids on Campus anymore does not mean they were trying to cover anything up... Again...these were accusations...not fact. I think it's safe to assume they were trying to protect the University....nothing shady about that.

People are getting too emotional about this.... Paterno did what he was suppose to do... Could he or should he of done more?.. Yes. But when the accusation was brought to his attention.... he relayed the information to the higher ups. Legally he did nothing wrong... in terms of his job...he did nothing wrong. Morally?.. People can have their own opinion on that... but he believes he made a mistake for not doing more in light of all the information that has come out.

He deserves some criticism ....but not the brunt of the storm.

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11-10-2011, 08:08 PM
  #103
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I'm not giving Paterno a free pass. He did make mistakes...and he fully admits that. But... the fact is... he did report the allegations. One guy he reported it to (Shultz) is head of Campus Police. I'm not sure why anyone would expect him to call the media and let them know and since he didn't it's a cover up?. What was brought to his attention were accusations ...not facts. Who knows if he believed in the accusations or not ..yet he still took actions that were within his power.

Yes ..he messed up.....but he is not the Evil Villain the world is making him out to be.
He did the bare minimum.

He ****ed up in every other facet of being a god damn human, outside of his legal responsibilities (and even that is apparently coming into question). He's not an evil villain. He's a cowardly selfish narcissist who placed his football program above that of the innocence of children. He failed in his moral, societal and authoritative responsibility.

----

What's getting lost in all this, because the impact on the victims is [i]so[i] huge, is all the other lives he has now done damage to.

Those hundreds or thousands of college kids rioting and protesting against his firing? Do you know they are doing that because they believe he did nothing wrong? Ab-so-****ing-lutely not. They are lashing out because, in a lot of cases, a big part of their moral foundation was exposed. It was pulled out from under them.

The man so many have looked up to for 50 years. A man that helped mold the spirit of a school and stood for integrity. A man who was a constant in so many lives for so long. Someone for them to admire, model themselves after.

Now all of that is in question. His integrity is in question. Everything he stood for and preached is in question.

After some reflection, I am not shocked at all anymore by the reactions of so many Penn State students. They are now going to begin to question if their beliefs and everything they've been told, taught and learned, is just lip-service.

I know that sounds extreme, but taking a person of such a high stature and bringing them down so far is going to scratch at their very being while their minds try to sort out what is really happening.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MayDay View Post

It's not hard to connect the dots. Paterno took part in the coverup. He helped coverup for his friend, whom he knew, or had reason to believe, was a pedophile and sexual predator. He was content to let it go on, and even for Sandusky to keep his campus office and access, as long as he didn't victimize his kids on campus anymore.

Paterno is not a victim here.
Very well sad man. I think that hits the point like I could not do.

The only action he took was to tell Sandusky to not do it on campus anymore. Obviously he didn't come out and say it like that, but his actions said it loud and clear.


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Are you drawing your own conclusions?... Because I sure as hell didn't call Paterno a victim.
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I think it's safe to assume they were trying to protect the University....nothing shady about that.
That's very shady. The children involved are of 1000x greater importance than the University. Their responsibility as employees of the university do not trump their responsibility as god damn human beings.

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People are getting too emotional about this....
People are getting too emotional about... child **** which was largely ignored?

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Originally Posted by Beerz View Post
Paterno did what he was suppose to do... Could he or should he of done more?.. Yes.
Cognitive dissonance. What he was "supposed" to? Legally, maybe (again, that may still be in question). Morally, ethically and any other facet you can think of? He did NOT do what he was supposed to.

The thing here is.. the other men that were told and did nothing are just as bad, but no one is trying to defend them at all, so the discussion about them goes no where. Why?

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But when the accusation was brought to his attention.... he relayed the information to the higher ups. Legally he did nothing wrong... in terms of his job...he did nothing wrong. Morally?.. People can have their own opinion on that... but he believes he made a mistake for not doing more in light of all the information that has come out.

He deserves some criticism ....but not the brunt of the storm.
So if you let a man who anally ***** pre-teen boys roam your campus for 15+ years without any real repercussions during that time, you only "deserve some criticism". **** everything about that.

He deserves all of this and more. As do the other men involved. Schultz, McQueary, Spanier, Curley. They are all scum. They all tried to pass the buck and only do what they thought necessary to protect the university.


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Old
11-10-2011, 08:26 PM
  #104
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He did the bare minimum.

He ****ed up in every other facet of being a god damn human, outside of his legal responsibilities (and even that is apparently coming into question). He's not an evil villain. He's a cowardly selfish narcissist who placed his football program above that of the innocence of children. He failed in his moral, societal and authoritative responsibility.

----

What's getting lost in all this, because the impact on the victims is [i]so[i] huge, is all the other lives he has now done damage to.

Those hundreds or thousands of college kids rioting and protesting against his firing? Do you know they are doing that because they believe he did nothing wrong? Ab-so-****ing-lutely not. They are lashing out because, in a lot of cases, a big part of their moral foundation was exposed. It was pulled out from under them.

The man so many have looked up to for 50 years. A man that helped mold the spirit of a school and stood for integrity. A man who was a constant in so many lives for so long. Someone for them to admire, model themselves after.

Now all of that is in question. His integrity is in question. Everything he stood for and preached is in question.

After some reflection, I am not shocked at all anymore by the reactions of so many Penn State students. They are now going to begin to question if their beliefs and everything they've been told, taught and learned, is just lip-service.

I know that sounds extreme, but taking a person of such a high stature and bringing them down so far is going to scratch at their very being while their minds try to sort out what is really happening.

Most of them are rioting because they feel the media is being unfair. Thats what is being said.... I don't really buy it.... I think they're rioting because they're 18-22 year old idiots....who don't need a whole lot of reason to cause ****.

I think you're going a bit overboard and being a little dramatic of it all. Paterno did not know the scope of it all... And in my opinion...it wasn't about protecting the Football Program... Yes.. it would be bad PR ..but it wouldn't do any real damage to the program. I think it was more about Sandusky...being stuck in the predictiment of that he was put in is not something any of us could understand. He didn't witness anything himself...and I'm sure didn't want to believe that his friend of over 40 years was a Pedo.

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Old
11-10-2011, 08:32 PM
  #105
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Paterno contacting a criminal defense lawyer. This could get ugly.

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11-10-2011, 08:35 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerz View Post
Most of them are rioting because they feel the media is being unfair. Thats what is being said.... I don't really buy it.... I think they're rioting because they're 18-22 year old idiots....who don't need a whole lot of reason to cause ****.
To cause ****? Agreed. But to sit there and chant the guys name and actively question it all? Something struck a chord the wrong way deep within them.

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I think you're going a bit overboard and being a little dramatic of it all.
You can keep saying that, but I think this is the perfect time for "going overboard" or "being a little dramatic".


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Originally Posted by Beerz View Post
Paterno did not know the scope of it all...
First, you don't know that.

Second, he knew more than enough scope to do more. If he knew enough to call it "disgusting" and "inappropriate" after being told Sandusky was ****** a boy in the shower, then there was more than enough scope. Where do you draw the line on him "knowing enough" to do more? If he knew there were 4 victims? 6? 10?

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And in my opinion...it wasn't about protecting the Football Program... Yes.. it would be bad PR ..but it wouldn't do any real damage to the program.
I completely disagree about it not being about protecting the program... yet I also completely agree that it wouldn't have done any real damage to the program. That is, if they had done the right thing the first time. If they turned a blind eye the first time, then did something the second.. that would definitely do damage.

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I think it was more about Sandusky...being stuck in the predictiment of that he was put in is not something any of us could understand. He didn't witness anything himself...and I'm sure didn't want to believe that his friend of over 40 years was a Pedo.
Sure. It was just as much about protecting his friend.

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11-10-2011, 08:36 PM
  #107
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hearing rumors that Jerry Sandusky has hung himself

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11-10-2011, 08:36 PM
  #108
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Cognitive dissonance. What he was "supposed" to? Legally, maybe (again, that may still be in question). Morally, ethically and any other



"facet you can think of? He did NOT do what he was supposed to.

The thing here is.. the other men that were told and did nothing are just as bad, but no one is trying to defend them at all, so the discussion about them goes no where. Why?"


Their is a reason they are in the Administration ... that's their responsibility as per their job titles. Most kept their job as well... and Paterno gets canned? ....

Overall... I'm fine with Paterno losing his job. I'm not fine with everything being thrown at him. I'd defend McQueery too if he was being attacked...but..haven't heard any of that. As far as the Higher Ups in the Administration... they failed at their jobs.... Not the Football coach.

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11-10-2011, 08:41 PM
  #109
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hearing rumors that Jerry Sandusky has hung himself

Wouldn't be surprised.

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11-10-2011, 08:52 PM
  #110
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Rich old guys with a lot of power give me the creeps. They're all into weird **** like this.

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11-10-2011, 08:53 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerz View Post
Cognitive dissonance. What he was "supposed" to? Legally, maybe (again, that may still be in question). Morally, ethically and any other



"facet you can think of? He did NOT do what he was supposed to.

The thing here is.. the other men that were told and did nothing are just as bad, but no one is trying to defend them at all, so the discussion about them goes no where. Why?"


Their is a reason they are in the Administration ... that's their responsibility as per their job titles. Most kept their job as well... and Paterno gets canned? ....

Overall... I'm fine with Paterno losing his job. I'm not fine with everything being thrown at him. I'd defend McQueery too if he was being attacked...but..haven't heard any of that. As far as the Higher Ups in the Administration... they failed at their jobs.... Not the Football coach.
Who kept their jobs?

Schultz and Curley both stepped down and are being charged (they would have been fired)
Spanier and Paterno were fired.
McQueary still has his job, which is a joke.

They all failed. They are all equally disgusting.

No one is defending the other guys because they aren't held up on a pedestal.

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11-10-2011, 08:56 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fing0rz View Post
hearing rumors that Jerry Sandusky has hung himself
Link for this?

The way this has unfolded, nothing would surprise me, but I'm not going to believe anything unless there's a link.

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11-10-2011, 09:00 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by volatile View Post
Who kept their jobs?

Schultz and Curley both stepped down and are being charged (they would have been fired)
Spanier and Paterno were fired.
McQueary still has his job, which is a joke.

They all failed. They are all equally disgusting.

No one is defending the other guys because they aren't held up on a pedestal.

Out of curiosity....

Why do you think McQueary should be fired.... I may not have heard something.

What I know about his story is.......


Mike McQueary was 28 and a graduate assistant when he came upon Sandusky in 2002 ****** a boy in the showers who appeared to be about 10 years old, according to a grand jury report.

McQueary was startled and left without saying anything, although the boy and Sandusky both saw him, the report said. He called his father and on his father's advice, McQueary reported what he saw to the team's head coach, Joe Paterno, the next day.

He was questioned about a week and a half later by top school officials -- athletic director Tim Curley and senior vice president Gary Schultz -- and told them he saw Sandusky having anal sex with a boy, according to the grand jury report. A couple weeks later, McQueary was informed that Sandusky's keys to the locker room were taken from him and The Second Mile was informed of the accusation.

McQueary did not call police, but authorities said that he did what was required of him.

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11-10-2011, 09:06 PM
  #114
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Curley has been charged with perjury and failure to report sexual abuse. He has been placed on administrative leave and the school is paying for his legal defense. <--- Not fired.

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11-10-2011, 09:07 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerz View Post
Out of curiosity....

Why do you think McQueary should be fired.... I may not have heard something.

What I know about his story is.......


Mike McQueary was 28 and a graduate assistant when he came upon Sandusky in 2002 ****** a boy in the showers who appeared to be about 10 years old, according to a grand jury report.

McQueary was startled and left without saying anything, although the boy and Sandusky both saw him, the report said. He called his father and on his father's advice, McQueary reported what he saw to the team's head coach, Joe Paterno, the next day.

He was questioned about a week and a half later by top school officials -- athletic director Tim Curley and senior vice president Gary Schultz -- and told them he saw Sandusky having anal sex with a boy, according to the grand jury report. A couple weeks later, McQueary was informed that Sandusky's keys to the locker room were taken from him and The Second Mile was informed of the accusation.

McQueary did not call police, but authorities said that he did what was required of him.
They have no "obligation" to fire him, but they should because he did the same thing the rest of them did. Well, the only difference, according to reports, is he told the straight truth without being evasive or vague, whereas the others may not have.

I think he should be fired because, as a coach, he is a mentor and I don't think he's fit to do that based on his actions or lack there of.

----

Here's another.. interesting.. read. http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/ind...abuse_sca.html

----

Sorry, Curley only stepped down. I never did say he was fired though.

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11-10-2011, 09:19 PM
  #116
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They have no "obligation" to fire him, but they should because he did the same thing the rest of them did. Well, the only difference, according to reports, is he told the straight truth without being evasive or vague, whereas the others may not have.

I think he should be fired because, as a coach, he is a mentor and I don't think he's fit to do that based on his actions or lack there of.

----

Here's another.. interesting.. read. http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/ind...abuse_sca.html

----

Sorry, Curley only stepped down. I never did say he was fired though.

I will give you one thing...with McQueary...... He witnessed it with his own two eyes..he had no doubts or reservations.. He should of went to the Police.

As for Paterno .... If it comes out... that he actively played a part in the Administrations failure to investigate or report it.... then he deserves what he gets.

But..... so far... that hasn't been established.

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11-10-2011, 09:39 PM
  #117
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It's my understanding that not only did he make a call to his Boss and report it.... He also reported it to Campus Police ... And forced Sandusky to resign. He took steps .... was he perfect?.. No... but to say he "covered up" isn't exactly true.
Your facts are a little out of order.

Sandusky was accused of inappropriate sexual conduct in 1998. He was forced to resign in 1999.

The **** in the shower occurred in 2002.

Joe Paterno and the Penn State management KNEW about the guy 4 years before this boy was ***** in the shower.

That's a ****ing cover up.

EDIT: Read the grand jury report. It lays out the time frame. The shower incident was not a one off problem with this guy.

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11-10-2011, 09:48 PM
  #118
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Your facts are a little out of order.

Sandusky was accused of inappropriate sexual conduct in 1998. He was forced to resign in 1999.

The **** in the shower occurred in 2002.

Joe Paterno and the Penn State management KNEW about the guy 4 years before this boy was ***** in the shower.

That's a ****ing cover up.

EDIT: Read the grand jury report. It lays out the time frame. The shower incident was not a one off problem with this guy.
This. If I walked into a situation like that, the police are being called, and probably an ambulance as well for the evil POS who would do such a thing. Anyone halfway decent would do the same.

It seems to me that Paterno cared more about his career, his legacy, his alma mater and his friend and colleague than the multiple victims of this criminal. Paterno's legacy deserves to burn, in my opinion.

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11-10-2011, 09:56 PM
  #119
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You're right.... At the Wall Street Protests ... ***** actually occur and are handled "internally".


Your a riot, Beerz. And I enjoy reading your numerous posts defending the despicable actions of these morally defective men, from Paterno all the way down. The fact that you don't believe there even was a **** says a lot.

(p.s., my best friend has been active in OWS for weeks; the idea of ***** and cover ups is just ludicrous).

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11-10-2011, 10:19 PM
  #120
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Your a riot, Beerz. And I enjoy reading your numerous posts defending the despicable actions of these morally defective men, from Paterno all the way down. The fact that you don't believe there even was a **** says a lot.

(p.s., my best friend has been active in OWS for weeks; the idea of ***** and cover ups is just ludicrous).

I think you're a riot..lol.... Some of you either assume too much or like to put words in peoples mouth to suit your argument. Please show me where i stated I didn't believe their was a ****? ... I didn't. And you might want to re-read my posts... I'm not defending anyone .. I am merely stating the vast majority of the hate is directed at the wrong person....while fully acknowledging Paterno should have done more. But i forgot... HF Posters lead a perfect life with no mistakes or regrets..

PS: And I'm glad you don't believe there have been ***** at OWS because your best friend told you...


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11-10-2011, 10:22 PM
  #121
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There is not a limited amount of hate or blame to be handed out. I don't believe in such a thing as "directed at the wrong person" if that person deserves it any of it.

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11-10-2011, 10:49 PM
  #122
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But i forgot... HF Posters lead a perfect life with no mistakes or regrets..
One does not need to be perfect to experience moral indignation over such a thing. The day the world views the actions, or rather, non-action, of Paterno as acceptable will be a sad day indeed.

Imagine one of the victims was someone in your family. Son, brother, nephew. And the great Joe Paterno knew about it -- and did nothing beyond telling his boss, and then continued to do nothing when everyone else did nothing.

There is no moral defense for him. He had station, wealth and adulation, and didn't use any of it to help a child in need.

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11-10-2011, 10:59 PM
  #123
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One does not need to be perfect to experience moral indignation over such a thing. The day the world views the actions, or rather, non-action, of Paterno as acceptable will be a sad day indeed.

Imagine one of the victims was someone in your family. Son, brother, nephew. And the great Joe Paterno knew about it -- and did nothing beyond telling his boss, and then continued to do nothing when everyone else did nothing.

There is no moral defense for him. He had station, wealth and adulation, and didn't use any of it to help a child in need.
And the thing is it's not like he needed to travel halfway across the world to do it. He didn't need to make some grand effort.

All he had to do was tell the police. One phone call. That's it.

Such a simple thing that would have made a huge (and I mean huge) difference in the lives of who knows how many kids. Yet he chose not to something that was completely within his power and ability to do.

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11-10-2011, 11:03 PM
  #124
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I think you're a riot..lol.... Some of you either assume too much or like to put words in peoples mouth to suit your argument. Please show me where i stated I didn't believe their was a ****? ... I didn't. And you might want to re-read my posts... I'm not defending anyone .. I am merely stating the vast majority of the hate is directed at the wrong person....while fully acknowledging Paterno should have done more. But i forgot... HF Posters lead a perfect life with no mistakes or regrets..

PS: And I'm glad you don't believe there have been ***** at OWS because your best friend told you...
The OWS protests are at the foot of my building. I see it and hear it every day. It annoys me for many reasons. And it's filthy and gross - the park was gorgeous prior.

The mindless drumming is what kills me about the OWS crap. That they directed one of their daily rants at my company is a different story.

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11-10-2011, 11:13 PM
  #125
Beerz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamers View Post
One does not need to be perfect to experience moral indignation over such a thing. The day the world views the actions, or rather, non-action, of Paterno as acceptable will be a sad day indeed.

Imagine one of the victims was someone in your family. Son, brother, nephew. And the great Joe Paterno knew about it -- and did nothing beyond telling his boss, and then continued to do nothing when everyone else did nothing.

There is no moral defense for him. He had station, wealth and adulation, and didn't use any of it to help a child in need.

Obviously you haven't read my posts. I never stated what he did was morally acceptable. Not once. And if one of the victims was someone I knew or in my family..I fully admit I would be outraged..However ..since I have no personal feelings in this situation it allows me to think rationally about it with no emotions pushing me over the edge before ALL the facts are out. There may be more information that comes out that will fully support all this hate...and on the flipside there may be info that comes out that shows Paterno just made a bad choice.

It's easy for anonymous internet posters, bloggers, twitter freaks, journalist and pundits to sit there and judge a person when their lives are safely hidden behind a computer screen or TV Camera...but the fact is...99.9% of people have never been placed in that type of situation. I doubt it would be easy for anyone to turn in a family member or a friend they've known for decades....he did that.... He f'd up for not taking it further..and admits that..

Everything else is speculation.

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