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11-09-2011, 05:45 PM
  #26
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edit: Kaleta on the Leino-Roy line

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11-09-2011, 05:56 PM
  #27
Evgeni Giroux
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this was a sabres fans arguement with me about 2 months ago:

I don't doubt that he is, but he is not way underrated at all by some.
He is not, in point of fact, a 1st line RW'er. You can try and change the spots on a leopard, but at the end of the day, he is still a leopard.

Jason Pominville was, is and always will be a line 2 RW'er, averaging 65 points a season with some decent PK and 2 way forward skills.
Should he fetch alot? Sure, if his concussion injury doesn't hold him back.
Should he be the center piece of a trade deal? Absolutely, but once again, his injury this past season will play a negative roll in his worth prior to this season.

Is he replacable? Enter one Zach Kassian. Yes, he is replacable.
Is there someone ready to step in, even Kassian, to replace him? Only training camp and the preseason will determine that.

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11-09-2011, 06:04 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by 1972sabres View Post
this was a sabres fans arguement with me about 2 months ago:

I don't doubt that he is, but he is not way underrated at all by some.
He is not, in point of fact, a 1st line RW'er. You can try and change the spots on a leopard, but at the end of the day, he is still a leopard.

Jason Pominville was, is and always will be a line 2 RW'er, averaging 65 points a season with some decent PK and 2 way forward skills.
Should he fetch alot? Sure, if his concussion injury doesn't hold him back.
Should he be the center piece of a trade deal? Absolutely, but once again, his injury this past season will play a negative roll in his worth prior to this season.

Is he replacable? Enter one Zach Kassian. Yes, he is replacable.
Is there someone ready to step in, even Kassian, to replace him? Only training camp and the preseason will determine that.
I remember lots of post about Pominville not being a #1 RW. Where they at?!?

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Old
11-09-2011, 06:53 PM
  #29
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I remember lots of post about Pominville not being a #1 RW. Where they at?!?
Again, if you think, based upon his play before this season, that Pominville has played like a #1 RW for the past 4+ seasons, you're wrong.

There was absolutely no reason for ANYBODY to think that Poms was a first line player before this year. He has, in my opinion, solidified himself as a top liner early on. But before that? No way.

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11-09-2011, 06:55 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Loods View Post
Again, if you think, based upon his play before this season, that Pominville has played like a #1 RW for the past 4+ seasons, you're wrong.

There was absolutely no reason for ANYBODY to think that Poms was a first line player before this year. He has, in my opinion, solidified himself as a top liner early on. But before that? No way.
Not true. Statistically he was and has been a solid 1st line RW for years.

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11-09-2011, 06:58 PM
  #31
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Not true. Statistically he was and has been a solid 1st line RW for years.
Okay, first liner in terms of production relative to the rest of the league. I'll buy that. He was probably top 30 in scoring among right wingers.

I'm more caught up in that there are people claiming that he's always been this player - which is clearly untrue.

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11-09-2011, 07:05 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Loods View Post
Okay, first liner in terms of production relative to the rest of the league. I'll buy that. He was probably top 30 in scoring among right wingers.

I'm more caught up in that there are people claiming that he's always been this player - which is clearly untrue.
There were enough people on these boards, including me, that thought he was a 1st liner even before this season.

His play in the 2nd half of last season wasn't that far off from this season. Of course he wasn't playing that well, but the fact that some people still thought of him as potential salary dump in the off-season is/was mind-boggling.

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11-09-2011, 07:57 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgn View Post
There were enough people on these boards, including me, that thought he was a 1st liner even before this season.

His play in the 2nd half of last season wasn't that far off from this season. Of course he wasn't playing that well, but the fact that some people still thought of him as potential salary dump in the off-season is/was mind-boggling.
He said himself he probably came back from the concussion too early. But once Roy went down, Pommer was very quietly having a stellar 2nd half of the season while Vanek/Stafford and even Gerbe were getting all the attention and accolades. At one point when I calculated it through ~30-35 games after Roy went down, Pommer was a PPG player. I didn't do it at the end of season, and I assume he probably came down a little bit from that pace...but Pommer being healthy and stepping up was a key part of the second half push by the Sabres.

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11-09-2011, 10:15 PM
  #34
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I was one of the biggest supporters of trading Pomms this past offseason. Mostly to LA in a deal fir Stoll.

Glad to eat my words but......

Not in the second half of last year, or ever before has Jason Pominville ever played like this. Neither in point production, leadership, confidence, physical play, two way, power play....any aspect of the game. Yes, he 'quietly' put up points but he never was a dominant force on the ice.

This year he has been.

Every word I've said about Pomms, you could say about Vanek too.

The biggest problem this team had the last 3-4 years, was players stepping up and being leaders, none of us thought our core was leadership material....none of us. We talked about brining back Griere for that....hahaha... What a joke that would have been. For the first time in years I see we do have leaders on the team, I'll even throw kudos to Gausted.

Pomms has really taken over the team. Good for him, good for us and I'm happy I'm eating my words!

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Old
11-10-2011, 12:07 AM
  #35
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Love that he is performing as well as he is at the dots.

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Old
11-10-2011, 05:16 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Crazy Tasty View Post
He's not big enough to be a #1 center.
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Originally Posted by slip View Post
I'm comfy with Jason taking faceoffs and playing right wing. Don't mess with what's working.
Just because he has more assists than goals at the moment and is succeeding on face-offs does not automatically mean he is a top line center....

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And people said the core of this team wasn't good enough...
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To be fair, the core of this team has yet to win a playoff series. This is their year to prove otherwise. Regier gave them skill and depth at forward, defense, and goaltending, now it's time to see what they do with it.
Exactly!

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11-10-2011, 07:05 PM
  #37
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Reminds me a lot of Steve Larmer -- good at everything and easy to overlook by many. The faceoffs thing has just been gravy and it's a bit of evidence to the extra work he's putting in.

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Old
11-10-2011, 07:18 PM
  #38
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Before this season I was luke warm on Pominville. Thought he was a pretty good support player (along with most players) but not a leader at all. This season (so far) he's showing thru example that he can not only be a leader, but a productive leader. Good for him, and the team.

I still have reservations, but the more the season progresses, the less I'll have. Unless he starts tanking for a long stretch.

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Old
11-10-2011, 09:33 PM
  #39
Sean McG
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This kind of popped in my head... what does everyone think of a Vanek-Poms-Ennis line once Enzo is back? I know part of what makes the Adam-Poms thing so good is that either one of them can take faceoffs, but I feel like Ennis could do an adequate enough job taking a few a game. It would be a good way to get one of our most talented players going.

Just a thought.

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11-11-2011, 07:30 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Sean McG View Post
This kind of popped in my head... what does everyone think of a Vanek-Poms-Ennis line once Enzo is back? I know part of what makes the Adam-Poms thing so good is that either one of them can take faceoffs, but I feel like Ennis could do an adequate enough job taking a few a game. It would be a good way to get one of our most talented players going.

Just a thought.
Ennis is the one forward on this roster I think could seriously damage Vanek+Poms mojo. I wouldn't want him anywhere near them.

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11-11-2011, 08:14 AM
  #41
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Ennis is the one forward on this roster I think could seriously damage Vanek+Poms mojo. I wouldn't want him anywhere near them.
Agreed. I want the third player on that line to be someone with strong play away from the puck. I've said it before, but one of the great things about Adam is that his play away from the puck is pretty good, at least offensively, and he has a knack for getting the puck to either Pommers or Vanek quickly.

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Old
11-11-2011, 08:23 AM
  #42
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Ennis is the one forward on this roster I think could seriously damage Vanek+Poms mojo. I wouldn't want him anywhere near them.
I'm with you... And I'm not with you... I think it's worth a try, but I can see what you're saying. Ennis seems to be trying to do too much, if he can go back to a simpler game, I think he would do ok on that line. I like Adam with Van and Pommer because he's a big body and plays a very simple game.

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11-11-2011, 09:14 AM
  #43
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If Pominville actually did make the move to center, I'm not sure what I'd do with the lines. I'd love to see Stafford play with Vanek and Pominville, but that just leaves a huge gap in the second line.

Vanek - Pominville - Stafford
Ennis - Roy - Leino <-- Ew.
Gerbe - Gaustad - Boyes

Maybe put Leino up with them? That's the line lots of people wanted to see anyway, just with Pominville and Leino reversed.

Vanek - Pominville - Leino
Ennis - Roy - Stafford
Gerbe - Gaustad - Boyes

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11-11-2011, 09:17 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Myllz View Post
Vanek - Pominville - Leino
Ennis - Roy - Stafford
Gerbe - Gaustad - Boyes
That would be interesting... not sure I'd want to drop Adam to the fourth line, though. I think he has more potential than being on a grinder line.

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11-11-2011, 09:20 AM
  #45
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That would be interesting... not sure I'd want to drop Adam to the fourth line, though. I think he has more potential than being on a grinder line.
It's tough, because if you want to keep Adam in the top 9, he'd have to go to the wing. Pominville wouldn't be taken off the top line if he moved to center, Adam isn't a better center than Roy and Goose is pretty much locked into that third line. You could put him on Roy's wing to let Ennis get his game going on the fourth line.

Vanek - Pominville - Leino
Adam - Roy - Stafford
Gerbe - Gaustad - Boyes

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11-11-2011, 09:24 AM
  #46
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It's tough, because if you want to keep Adam in the top 9, he'd have to go to the wing. Pominville wouldn't be taken off the top line if he moved to center, Adam isn't a better center than Roy and Goose is pretty much locked into that third line. You could put him on Roy's wing to let Ennis get his game going on the fourth line.

Vanek - Pominville - Leino
Adam - Roy - Stafford
Gerbe - Gaustad - Boyes
Yeah, I guess either way a good player is going to be on the 4th line. Which is what we want, of course. Depth in skill is great. Just not necessarily easy to manage. :p

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11-11-2011, 09:34 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by SabresFanNorthPortFL View Post
I was one of the biggest supporters of trading Pomms this past offseason. Mostly to LA in a deal fir Stoll.

Glad to eat my words but......

Not in the second half of last year, or ever before has Jason Pominville ever played like this. Neither in point production, leadership, confidence, physical play, two way, power play....any aspect of the game. Yes, he 'quietly' put up points but he never was a dominant force on the ice.

This year he has been.

Every word I've said about Pomms, you could say about Vanek too.

The biggest problem this team had the last 3-4 years, was players stepping up and being leaders, none of us thought our core was leadership material....none of us. We talked about brining back Griere for that....hahaha... What a joke that would have been. For the first time in years I see we do have leaders on the team, I'll even throw kudos to Gausted.

Pomms has really taken over the team. Good for him, good for us and I'm happy I'm eating my words!
Here, here.

I'm sure the squads of the eraly 80's to the early 90's had their team "leaders" but they didn't make it past round 1 (Housley, Turgeon and Andreychuk come to mind).

Let's not anoint true leaders when we have yet to see it when it counts.

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Old
11-11-2011, 09:57 AM
  #48
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Just because he has more assists than goals at the moment and is succeeding on face-offs does not automatically mean he is a top line center....





Exactly!
And if they don't do it? Then what will everyone be talking about next year? What will come about if the same story happens in the playoffs this year? Like a 1st round exit?

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Old
11-11-2011, 12:42 PM
  #49
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I think Pominville is our top center. I was of the opinion of trading him for a top center, but also being wary of what his loss would do to our depth on right wing, especially if Kassian wasn't ready and Kotalik was, well... Kotalik. I believe he has the defensive capability, smarts, passing ability, and is learning faceoffs to the point which by the end of this season he will be our top center, maybe with Vanek and Boyes. With Roy as our second center, presumably with Leino and Stafford on his sides. And a 3rd line of Adam with Ennis and Hecht. And keeping the GGK line as our energy/banging/lil bit of scoring 4th line. Absolutely nasty

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Old
11-11-2011, 01:11 PM
  #50
joshjull
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Again, if you think, based upon his play before this season, that Pominville has played like a #1 RW for the past 4+ seasons, you're wrong.

There was absolutely no reason for ANYBODY to think that Poms was a first line player before this year. He has, in my opinion, solidified himself as a top liner early on. But before that? No way.
Considering he already was one in 06-07, yes you could and I did.

How soon we forget that he was the top line RW on the highest scoring team in the NHL. Putting up 34g 34a 68pts in 82gms. His 30 ES goals tied him with Ovechkin and Heatley for 2nd in the NHL in ES goals. He followed that season up with a 27g 53a 80pt season in 07-08.

Pommer has been on the top line twice and been very good both times. All of 06-07 and from Jan 1st until now.

Seeing how awesome Vanek and Pommer are together makes me wonder why they were never tried together before. Particularly the year after the captains left. What better way to help Vanek/Roy to transition into their new top line roles than by putting the previous year's top line RW with them.


Last edited by joshjull: 11-11-2011 at 01:19 PM.
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