It will be months before Staal comes back. It's not a stretch to ask if he'll ever come back at this point. Not only is he not working out, but no one's "even seen him" around.
The Rangers knowingly put Staal's career and quality of life on the line when they ignored the initial concussion. "Baseline test" and "They would never do that" don't work here. The Rangers knew and choose to be irresponsible. I laugh when the media people say they didn't know either. Someone should have had the guts to report it.
For the 50th time (in just this thread). Staal felt fine after the hit. The symptoms didn't come until the summer.
Jim Ramsey would not have allowed Staal to play if he was suffering post concussion symptoms. Ramsey has dealt with Jeff Buekeboom,Pat LaFontaine,Eric Lindros and Mike Richter. They all suffered concussions as Rangers. Ramsey is one of the best trainers in the NHL. Bar none.
Have to love a message board where people can make libelous statements and get away with it. Ramsey was negligent with Staal?
If the Rangers don't leak a story,nobody knows. Why did the Rangers leak this story today? Staal meet with Dr. Cantu three weeks ago. The media members are only as good as their sources and if the Rangers have a media blackout,Brooks is not getting the story.
Someone gave Brooks the story.
McDonagh said last week the Ranger players do see Staal around the facility. Staal has kept his distance from the team while he tries to get better.
Well, could be good, could be bad...if he passes things fine, then they let him start ramping up the exercise. See if it stays fine, then he could be in game shape after Christmas
Jim Ramsey would not have allowed Staal to play if he was suffering post concussion symptoms. Ramsey has dealt with Jeff Buekeboom,Pat LaFontaine,Eric Lindros and Mike Richter. They all suffered concussions as Rangers. Ramsey is one of the best trainers in the NHL. Bar none.
Staal played. Which I guess means Ramsey allowed Staal to play. The real question is how does someone get post-concussion syndrome from a concussion that apparently never showed itself to anyone?
Jim Ramsey would not have allowed Staal to play if he was suffering post concussion symptoms. Ramsey has dealt with Jeff Buekeboom,Pat LaFontaine,Eric Lindros and Mike Richter. They all suffered concussions as Rangers. Ramsey is one of the best trainers in the NHL. Bar none.
thats the biggest reason that i think something must have happened during the offseason. i fully trust ramsey and he wouldn't have cleared staal to play if he was that bad...even if that hit was the initial issue, it just seems like there is some missing peice(s) to the puzzle that we don't know about.
Staal played. Which I guess means Ramsey allowed Staal to play. The real question is how does someone get post-concussion syndrome from a concussion that apparently never showed itself to anyone?
Concussions are one of the least understood diseases in medicine. It wasn't until the past 10-15 years that they really started to be studied.
Well, could be good, could be bad...if he passes things fine, then they let him start ramping up the exercise. See if it stays fine, then he could be in game shape after Christmas
If he fully passes, he wouldn't need 2 months to get in shape. If it takes him until after Christmas to return, it means he didn't pass, he's just getting better, things are hopeful, but he did not pass.
If he truly fully passes, he'll be back before Thanksgiving. Marc Staal isn't some morbidly obese chick trying to squeeze into a size-2 wedding dress. He doesn't need to work out for months on end just to be in half-decent shape.
If he is ok today, then he'll be on the ice in Hartford in a few days and after a week of minor league conditioning, he'll be in New York by the end of the next weekend. But again, this assumes that he fully passes.
People went from super-optimistic to super-negative on Staal. Somehow, even if he's healthy, he'll still need two months to get in shape!? You think he grew a beer gut that he'll need to get rid of? Forgot how to ice skate? Why does he need two months to get in shape?
I keep seeing posters state that Staal never had any PCS symptoms until the summer, which is inaccurate. Staal did experience some type of PCS symptoms during the season and then it cropped up again during the summer.
I posted this quote from Torts earlier in the thread:
Quote:
"He cleared the test, came back and played and I believe it was the Pittsburgh game where he didn't feel right. Kept him out of that, I think we kept him out of two or three games (two) from there. Again, he was cleared by the doctors and played. But then it starts up again, as he was working out this summer."
If he fully passes, he wouldn't need 2 months to get in shape. If it takes him until after Christmas to return, it means he didn't pass, he's just getting better, things are hopeful, but he did not pass.
If he truly fully passes, he'll be back before Thanksgiving. Marc Staal isn't some morbidly obese chick trying to squeeze into a size-2 wedding dress. He doesn't need to work out for months on end just to be in half-decent shape.
If he is ok today, then he'll be on the ice in Hartford in a few days and after a week of minor league conditioning, he'll be in New York by the end of the next weekend. But again, this assumes that he fully passes.
People went from super-optimistic to super-negative on Staal. Somehow, even if he's healthy, he'll still need two months to get in shape!? You think he grew a beer gut that he'll need to get rid of? Forgot how to ice skate? Why does he need two months to get in shape?
I disagree. IMO he would need at least a month after being cleared to resume skating. Crosby has been skating for just over a month. There's a difference between being cleared to skate and workout and being cleared for contact.
And those (2) things will not happen at, or near the same time due to the type of injury he is dealing with.
He had to take an enitre month off. He took all of training camp off. As of November 11, 2011, he hasnt played in a hockey game since mid-April.
Crosby had his clock cleaned in mid-January. He wasnt cleared for contact until 13 OCT. We're already in mid-November and Crosby still hasnt played yet. Rumors were circulating that he is going to play very shortly.
January to (essentially December). Almost 12 full months of recovery and rehabilitation. Then you have to factor in the 10-game (or so) grace period where Crosby is going to need to get his hands, timing and overall on-ice awareness back to his elite level.
If an elite specimen like Crosby will (likely) need a full year to return, then it is certainly discernable that Staal is out for a while, and shouldnt be factored into the team's plans for the rest of the 2012 season.
What Sather does over the next two months might add force to that belief. If the rumors are true about McIlrath having concussion issues as well, he's going to have to start restocking, just in case.
It's a shame, really. I guess the good news is the depth on defense we have all talked about for a while is somewhat paying off.
I disagree. IMO he would need at least a month after being cleared to resume skating. Crosby has been skating for just over a month. There's a difference between being cleared to skate and workout and being cleared for contact.
And those (2) things will not happen at, or near the same time due to the type of injury he is dealing with.
Why would he have to wait another month to start skating after he's cleared?
And also Crosby needs more time to get back in shape since he stopped skating in Jan, where Staal stopped in Sept.
I disagree. IMO he would need at least a month after being cleared to resume skating. Crosby has been skating for just over a month. There's a difference between being cleared to skate and workout and being cleared for contact.
And those (2) things will not happen at, or near the same time due to the type of injury he is dealing with.
I was about to say that when you mentioned Crosby. But like I said in my post, there's a difference between fully passing and kind of getting better.
If he's getting better and things are hopeful, then he may resume skating, but not much else. But once he reaches a point when he's completely healthy, he should be in the Rangers lineup within a week.
He had to take an enitre month off. He took all of training camp off. As of November 11, 2011, he hasnt played in a hockey game since mid-April.
Crosby had his clock cleaned in mid-January. He wasnt cleared for contact until 13 OCT. We're already in mid-November and Crosby still hasnt played yet. Rumors were circulating that he is going to play very shortly.
January to (essentially December). Almost 12 full months of recovery and rehabilitation. Then you have to factor in the 10-game (or so) grace period where Crosby is going to need to get his hands, timing and overall on-ice awareness back to his elite level.
If an elite specimen like Crosby will (likely) need a full year to return, then it is certainly discernable that Staal is out for a while, and shouldnt be factored into the team's plans for the rest of the 2012 season.
What Sather does over the next two months might add force to that belief. If the rumors are true about McIlrath having concussion issues as well, he's going to have to start restocking, just in case.
It's a shame, really. I guess the good news is the depth on defense we have all talked about for a while is somewhat paying off.
Two different players with two different bodies with two separate injuries. Not every concussion is the same and effects everyone the same way.
Just as you can bring up Cindy, I can bring up dozens of other players who barely skipped a beat after suffering a concussion. Certainly a year long absence is not a guarantee written into medical school books.
Is there a known approximate timeline these days for how long somebody in Staal's situation practices with a team before being cleared for full contact? And how long does one have to do that without symptoms before they might return to the lineup. I know he's not close to any of that but I'm just curious.
Is there a known approximate timeline these days for how long somebody in Staal's situation practices with a team before being cleared for full contact? And how long does one have to do that without symptoms before they might return to the lineup. I know he's not close to any of that but I'm just curious.
Two different players with two different bodies with two separate injuries. Not every concussion is the same and effects everyone the same way.
Just as you can bring up Cindy, I can bring up dozens of other players who barely skipped a beat after suffering a concussion. Certainly a year long absence is not a guarantee written into medical school books.
Uhhhh, I guess you dont consider a 7-month layoff as "barely skipping a beat"
We're talking about Marc Staal, right?
Staal's inury happened in February (I think). The "not skipping a beat" part is what's landed him on on the shelf. Staal played in almost 20 games after the injury. Look where it got him.
Besides, what I'm saying has nothing to do with the actual concussion, so to speak. It has to do with:
a) Staal didnt have a training camp
b) when Staal is cleared to resume physical activity (i.e. not sitting on his couch)
c) when Staal is cleared to resume skating
d) when Staal is cleared for contact
e) when Staal is deemed NHL-game ready
It's pretty obvious the Rangers are treating Staal's inujry as seriously as the Pens did Crosby's. Parallels can certainly be drawn, especially of you can recall how the Pens handled Sid's injury in January and February (in terms of rhetoric)
Uhhhh, I guess you dont consider a 7-month layoff as "barely skipping a beat"
We're talking about Marc Staal, right?
Staal's inury happened in February (I think). The "not skipping a beat" part is what's landed him on on the shelf. Staal played in almost 20 games after the injury. Look where it got him.
Besides, what I'm saying has nothing to do with the actual concussion, so to speak. It has to do with:
a) Staal didnt have a training camp
b) when Staal is cleared to resume physical activity (i.e. not sitting on his couch)
c) when Staal is cleared to resume skating
d) when Staal is cleared for contact
e) when Staal is deemed NHL-game ready
It's pretty obvious the Rangers are treating Staal's inujry as seriously as the Pens did Crosby's. Parallels can certainly be drawn, especially of you can recall how the Pens handled Sid's injury in January and February (in terms of rhetoric)
How many times must it be said that Staal didn't start suffering from any symptoms until the summer? He went back and played because he wasn't feeling hurt, the symptoms weren't there. So far, it is a ~3 month layoff, not 7.
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Jaime Lannister has better hands than Brian Boyle.
How many times must it be said that Staal didn't start suffering from any symptoms until the summer? He went back and played because he wasn't feeling hurt, the symptoms weren't there. So far, it is a ~3 month layoff, not 7.
That is false, see my post above. He suffered some symptoms last season.
How many times must it be said that Staal didn't start suffering from any symptoms until the summer? He went back and played because he wasn't feeling hurt, the symptoms weren't there. So far, it is a ~3 month layoff, not 7.
Did Staal have a secret Training Camp in June? Did he magically play on the Bruins, or Team Canada at the WC's? Staal hasnt played an NHL game since mid-April. And in his workouts since then, was he scrimmaging? With contact?
Doubtful.
Staal reported headaches to Ramsey during the summer. When in the summer is open for debate.
What I do know is that when Torts sat Staal late last season, his reason was "He just didnt feel right"
He never said it was a knee, or a lower/upper injury. He kept his mouth shut, which is no surprise from a coach.
Besides, anybody who has every received a concussion knows that there are symptoms from the get-go. No way in hell Staal took a headshot in February, and went a whole five months until feeling the symptoms.
Ok, still, he was cleared to play by doctors. That isn't NYR fault, that is the doctors fault.
What difference does it make? You can still have symptoms and play pro sports. It doesnt make the situation healthier. Lindros (both of them), Granato, Lafontaine, Steve Young, Troy Aikman...I'm sure they were all cleared by Doctors.
The bottom line is that it's obvious Staal is in no shape to play the sport for the time being.
And something nobody seems to be touching on is that we as fans (and I'm sure the Rangers as well) dont want some timid, out-of-shape, vegetable Staal to come back prematurely.
We want the hard-hitting, in-your-face defenseman in the lineup. For him to get back to that, I'm going to guess it's going to be a while.
Why would he have to wait another month to start skating after he's cleared?
And also Crosby needs more time to get back in shape since he stopped skating in Jan, where Staal stopped in Sept.
I said it would be at least a month after he started skating until he got cleared for full contact most likely. They will need to time to analyze what happens after some light workload and then give him some time off. And then heavy workload and time off. And then extended heavy workload. Analyzing the whole way.
They aren't just going to say, "yep, he's all set go back and play in the NHL tomorrow".
That's more what I meant, not sure if I typed it correctly the first time.
