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How can we improve the bottom six?

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Old
11-11-2011, 05:06 AM
  #1
markisonfire
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Our top six is pretty much set. Kopitar is single-handedly creating chances on the first line and Penner seems to be starting to play well. When Penner tries, our top six can compete with pretty much any team in the league.

Gagne - Kopitar - Williams
Penner - Richards - Brown

But I feel like our bottom six is really lacking. I'd like to take a moment to see what is different from last year.

2010-11 bottom six:

Ponikarovsky - Handzus - Simmonds
Clifford - Lewis - Richardson

2011-12 bottom six:

Clifford - Stoll - Richardson
Moreau - Lewis - Hunter

I think I see the problem. Last year's fourth line is essentially this year's third line, and they aren't living up to it. This is a bad thing. Clifford and Lewis aren't playing nearly as well as they were last season and we don't have Simmonds' "I don't give a ****" attitude. Our bottom six is clearly hurting.

So what can we do to fix this? I'm interested in hearing all call-ups and trade scenarios you guys can imagine to improve our bottom six. Ultimately, I think that we need two third-line wingers, although Fraser certainly seemed like a capable fourth-line center. Two scenarios here:

xxx - Stoll - Richardson
Clifford - Fraser - Lewis

or

xxx - Stoll - xxx
Clifford - Lewis - Richardson

Guys like Hunter and Moreau just aren't cutting it. They are great for spot-starts if injuries pile up, but I hope they aren't a part of our daily lineup.

I think the first guy the Kings should target is Cal Clutterbuck. The price would be pretty steep, but he is just the guy the Kings need on that third line. Perhaps something along the lines of Thomas Hickey and a first for Clutterbuck.

Next is Blake Comeau from the Islanders. This would give us an actual scoring possibility on that third line. I would consider sending Alec Martinez and a later pick for Comeau.

That leaves this lineup:

Gagne - Kopitar - Williams
Penner - Richards - Brown
Comeau - Stoll - Clutterbuck
Clifford - Lewis - Richardson

Mitchell - Doughty
Johnson - Scuderi
Voynov - Greene

What do you guys think?

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Old
11-11-2011, 11:47 AM
  #2
Rorschach
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This isn't the first time someone's mentioned this idea but I like this...especially since we have Voynov:

Penner - Kopitar - Williams
Johnson - Richards - Brown
Gagne - Stoll - Richardson/Hunter
Clifford - Lewis - Moreau

Mitchell - Doughty
Voynov - Scuderi
Hickey - Greene
Martinez

Basically put Penner back on the 1st line where he clicked sometimes with Kopitar and Williams last year before Kopitar got hurt.

Then try JJ on Left Wing where maybe he can do some 1 on 1 with other players while giving Voynov his real shot.

If we're going to lose, lets put some hungry guys in and have a chance of improving...looking at the list of first line wingers that have a tiny chance of being traded, none of them are available (Parise or Iginla) or they are bad fits (Nash and Semin).

Our real problem isn't bottom six scoring, it's bottom 9 scoring. Basically it's the same problem we had last year except we don't have any 3rd line scoring either.

- R

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11-11-2011, 12:06 PM
  #3
Fishhead
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I thought Frasier outplayed almost all of our bottom 6ers last night. Was pleasantly surprised that he played that well coming off of a layoff.

If he continues to play like that he can certainly contribute. Hopefully we will be on the good end of one of those "change of scenery" situations here.

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Old
11-11-2011, 12:22 PM
  #4
Capn Brown
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markisonfire View Post

I think the first guy the Kings should target is Cal Clutterbuck. The price would be pretty steep, but he is just the guy the Kings need on that third line. Perhaps something along the lines of Thomas Hickey and a first for Clutterbuck.

Yes. I'd do that. They'd probably want a roster guy, too. Probably either Hunter or Moreau or Lewis or Richardson. That said, I'd still do it.

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Old
11-11-2011, 12:29 PM
  #5
Seventyx7
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Clifford-Lokti-Stoll
Richardson/Moreau-Fraser-Lewis

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11-11-2011, 12:52 PM
  #6
bral
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Much of it has to do with personnel and loss of size but the coaching staff needs to stress the forecheck again. Last year all four lines strove to establish the forecheck, it was easy for our bottom six guys to emulate our top six. This year it seems guys like Cliff,Lewis,Rich are kinda lost. Not sure if it's because they are not getting the icetime or if it's because they are trying to do something different/more than they're capable of. TM needs to sit our bottoms sixers down and telll them they are out there to wear down the opponent first, and score here and there second.


Last edited by bral: 11-11-2011 at 01:18 PM.
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Old
11-11-2011, 12:57 PM
  #7
Bandit
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Get Handzus, Simmonds & Frolov back.

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Old
11-11-2011, 01:27 PM
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Hatter
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How bout shipping off any of Penner, Moreau, Stoll, Lewis, Richardson, Clifford, etc + picks for a legitimate top 6 lw to put on Kopitars line while putting Gagne where he belongs with Richards and then bringing up lotki and playing him with Parse and whoever is left after the blockbuster Penner n change + trade.

I really like what I saw from Frazier last night too so I think he stays.

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Old
11-11-2011, 01:34 PM
  #9
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Originally Posted by Bandit View Post
Get Handzus, Simmonds & Frolov back.
While I love having Richards, I agree that losing Simmonds hurts and he would be exactly what we need. Right wing, energy, can fight, chip in the odd goal.

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11-11-2011, 01:41 PM
  #10
Ziggy Stardust
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The only natural RW the Kings have on their bottom six is Trent Hunter. Brad Richardson is primarily a LW/C, Moreau is a LW, Clifford is a LW, Stoll, Lewis and Fraser are all centers. That is a problem.

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11-11-2011, 01:53 PM
  #11
markisonfire
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
The only natural RW the Kings have on their bottom six is Trent Hunter. Brad Richardson is primarily a LW/C, Moreau is a LW, Clifford is a LW, Stoll, Lewis and Fraser are all centers. That is a problem.
I agree, but Lewis has played quite a bit of RW. Perhaps calling up Loktionov would help this team a bit. I still think Clutterbuck should be someone we go after hard.

Clifford - Stoll - Clutterbuck
Richardson - Loktionov - Lewis

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Old
11-11-2011, 02:02 PM
  #12
Ziggy Stardust
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If they're going to get Clutterbuck, someone from that group you listed has to go (likely Lewis, he seems like a player who'd fit in Minnesota).

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11-11-2011, 02:29 PM
  #13
Bandit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bateman View Post
While I love having Richards, I agree that losing Simmonds hurts and he would be exactly what we need. Right wing, energy, can fight, chip in the odd goal.
I didn't say undo the Richards trade (who would?), I said get Handzus, Simmonds & Frolov back.

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11-11-2011, 02:40 PM
  #14
The Black1963
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Richie-Lokti-Stoll
Moreau-Fraser or Lewis-Lewis or Hunter

Send Clifford down to manchester and let him get some shifts in so he can develop.

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11-11-2011, 02:45 PM
  #15
verbalkint47
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to everyone who wants clutterbuck, you guys do realize that the wild are ahead of the kings in the standings right? unless they fall a lot in the standings over the next couple months, their buyers not sellers.

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11-11-2011, 02:57 PM
  #16
FrozenKing18
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I don't think MIN is willing to trade Clutterbuck unless he's part of a package to get a top player.

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11-11-2011, 03:31 PM
  #17
Cook24
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I say we go after Tuomo Ruutu from Carolina. As of now the canes are struggling a bit, so its not like they couldn't use a shakeup as well. His cap hit is 3.8M, but it'll be up after this season. We'd have to throw in someone like Richardson in order to fit him under the cap ceiling. He is physical and isn't afraid to drop the gloves either. He'd be a big boost to our 3rd line...

Gagne-Kopitar-Williams
Penner-Richards-Brown
Ruutu-Stoll-Richardson
Moreau-Fraser-Lewis
Hunter/Westgarth

Or we give up a lot more for someone like Okposo whos been struggling so far( 0G, 3A in 13 games) on a struggling Islanders team. His cap hit is fairly low 2.8Mil, so he wouldn't be too hard to fit in cap wise. He would definitely cost more than Ruutu, however. Then we roll with these lines...

Gagne-Kopitar-Williams
Penner-Richards-Brown
Richardson-Stoll-Okposo
Moreau-Fraser-Lewis
Hunter/Westgarth

We can use a combo of Hickey, our 2nd rounder, Martinez, and maybe someone like Richardson or Lewis to try to pull one of these trades off...

Thoughts?

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Old
11-11-2011, 04:01 PM
  #18
gtwyc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
Richie-Lokti-Stoll
Moreau-Fraser or Lewis-Lewis or Hunter

Send Clifford down to manchester and let him get some shifts in so he can develop.
this. stoll gets kicked out 80% of the time so hes basically useless at center. give lokti a chance, the kid deserves it!

Clifford would benefit going down to the AHL

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Old
11-11-2011, 04:36 PM
  #19
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I really liked our 3rd a few years ago with

Frolov-Handzus-Simmonds

Maybe we can make a few trades so our line-up looks comething like this?

Gagne-Kopitar-Williams
Penner-Richards-Brown
Gerbe-Stoll-Stempniak
Clifford-Fraser-Downie

Richardson/Moreau/Westgarth/Lewis

Hahaha idk

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11-11-2011, 04:54 PM
  #20
DapperDan
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By firing the guy who tells them what to do. There is nothing wrong with the bottom six other than the system in which they play.

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Old
11-11-2011, 04:58 PM
  #21
Sydor25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DapperDan View Post
By firing the guy who tells them what to do. There is nothing wrong with the bottom six other than the system in which they play.
Good ol' Occam's Razor.

Simpler explanations are, other things being equal, generally better than more complex ones. 3+ years of Terry Murray and people are still trying to change the 18 skaters around.

The players on the roster are already good enough, they just need to play between the dots.

Could the Kings still fail with a new coach? Sure, but I know they will fail with the current one.

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11-11-2011, 05:02 PM
  #22
Kingsfan1
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Richardson-Loktionov-Stoll

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11-11-2011, 05:13 PM
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Ziggy Stardust
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I don't see any players on the bottom six who are capable of making plays with the puck or who have any shred of creativity to their game. That's the problem.

Clifford, Lewis, Stoll, Hunter, Moreau, Fraser, Westgarth, they are all north-south skating players. The only bottom six forward with a shred of agility is Brad Richardson but he's not someone I'd expect to be the go-to-guy to create offense on the bottom six.

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11-11-2011, 05:21 PM
  #24
Sydor25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
I don't see any players on the bottom six who are capable of making plays with the puck or who have any shred of creativity to their game. That's the problem.

Clifford, Lewis, Stoll, Hunter, Moreau, Fraser, Westgarth, they are all north-south skating players. The only bottom six forward with a shred of agility is Brad Richardson but he's not someone I'd expect to be the go-to-guy to create offense on the bottom six.
We've only seen them play in the NHL with Terry Murray. It's not really fair to say they have no shred of creativity to their game. The same could have been said about Moulson and Purcell under Murray.

Murray helped destroy Frolov's game and confidence and he's now in Russia. Poni came in as a consistent 20 goal scorer and did nothing with Murray. Hunter has scored in the NHL at a solid 15 goal rate and Murray is happy with his "board-to-dot" play, but still wants goals from him.

Getting shots from between the dots will increase scoring with all 4 lines.

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Old
11-12-2011, 02:26 AM
  #25
damacles1156
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We've only seen them play in the NHL with Terry Murray. It's not really fair to say they have no shred of creativity to their game. The same could have been said about Moulson and Purcell under Murray.

Murray helped destroy Frolov's game and confidence and he's now in Russia. Poni came in as a consistent 20 goal scorer and did nothing with Murray. Hunter has scored in the NHL at a solid 15 goal rate and Murray is happy with his "board-to-dot" play, but still wants goals from him.

Getting shots from between the dots will increase scoring with all 4 lines.
These are North, South guys Dean has picked, Dean Lombardi Hockey baby. Poni has already been Struggling in Carolina a few games. So it's not Murray at all.

Frolov was always a Lazy player. Murray didn't turn him into one. He just demanded Frolov give effort ALL GAME LONG.

We all know about Moulson and Purcell. But Murray didn't trade them Dean Lombardi did.

Murray Coaches Dean Lombardi Hockey. And Dean has given Murray, Dean Lombardi Hockey Players.

They will not Magically Turn into Skill guys, with some AHL or Cast off NHL Coach.
They will still be Board Battle, Grind it out Hockey guys.

Cause that is Dean Lombardi Hockey. The Next Coach Will Coach Dean Lombardi Hockey, With Dean Lombardi Players.

You guys all have this Fantasy; That Some Coach is Magically going to turn all these Bottom Six guys, into 15/20 guys. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.


Last edited by damacles1156: 11-12-2011 at 02:42 AM.
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