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Old
11-12-2011, 06:31 AM
  #101
hockeyfan2k11
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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
Where have you been the last 3 weeks? Plekanec, Desharnais and Eller is just fine when everybody is healthy, plus it's not like Gomez creates anymore offense than those 3 anyways.
Desharnais is not a NHL centerman. Gomez is BETTER than him.

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11-12-2011, 07:35 AM
  #102
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Desharnais is not a NHL centerman. Gomez is BETTER than him.
Desharnais is an NHL centerman, just not a #1 or 2 on a playoff team.

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11-12-2011, 07:41 AM
  #103
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Desharnais is an NHL centerman, just not a #1 or 2 on a playoff team.
Or 3...........

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11-12-2011, 07:45 AM
  #104
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Or 3...........

Really ? How many 3rd line centers in this league are on pace for 45pts ?

Just admit the real reason why you hate DD...

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11-12-2011, 08:08 AM
  #105
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Really ? How many 3rd line centers in this league are on pace for 45pts ?

Just admit the real reason why you hate DD...
Stats dont show anything. Play DD just on the third line and see if he still racks up 45 points, in which case I would agree with you. He is getting 1st-2nd line minutes and a ridiculous amount of PP time, he is actually a major disappointment in that category.

I am not a fan of Gomez but ffs at least hold them in the same category. DD is not any better than Gomez, at least gomez has heard of defensive positioning, even if it messes up alot he isnt following the puck like a chicken with no head.

DD is not a good player yet. Plain and simple.

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11-12-2011, 11:31 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
Really ? How many 3rd line centers in this league are on pace for 45pts ?

Just admit the real reason why you hate DD...
Which would be ? Go ahead, because careful what you say. You don't know me or anything about me. Feel free to PM and i will share.

J'imagine que tu pense que je suis anglophone ?

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11-12-2011, 11:56 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Desharnais is an NHL centerman, just not a #1 or 2 on a playoff team.
What does that even mean? Desharnais is a tweener...he has some nice skillsets but there's no place to put him. He is NOT an NHL centerman.

He can't play on the top 2 lines. He's also too small to play on the bottom 2. He's weak on faceoffs as well. So where does he go? On the wing? OK. But he gets pushed off the puck with ease and is weak along the boards. He's also not quick or skilled enough to be that small and be a top 6 winger. He's too small to be a grinder on the bottom 2 lines.

Desharnais is putting up points..but lets look at where and who he plays with. He gets TOP minutes on the powerplay and is usually insulated with 2 of the better wingers on the team.

I like the guy, but he's not better than Gomez....and that's saying a lot.

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11-12-2011, 12:14 PM
  #108
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Desharnais is our latest Oleg Petrov. A smallish forward that has skills, they are 3rd line material, but can at times fill a spot on the top 6. They are however stop-gap measures. Expect DD to have as long as a career in Montreal as Petrov did, or shorter. His size hurts him in a 3rd line role, not to mention his weakness in the faceoff circle.

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11-12-2011, 12:16 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
Desharnais is our latest Oleg Petrov. A smallish forward that has skills, they are 3rd line material, but can at times fill a spot on the top 6. They are however stop-gap measures. Expect DD to have as long as a career in Montreal as Petrov did, or shorter. His size hurts him in a 3rd line role, not to mention his weakness in the faceoff circle.
No he is not. If you say this, you didn't see Oleg play.

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11-12-2011, 12:36 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
He can't play on the top 2 lines. He's also too small to play on the bottom 2.
Bottom 6 players on top teams:

Chicago - Kruger
Detroit - Helm, Hudler
Washington - Eakin
Dallas - Peterson
Pittsburgh - Park
San Jose - Mitchell

This is post-lockout hockey, the bottom six isn't just about size anymore.

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11-12-2011, 12:43 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
Bottom 6 players on top teams:

Chicago - Kruger
Detroit - Helm, Hudler
Washington - Eakin
Dallas - Peterson
Pittsburgh - Park
San Jose - Mitchell

This is post-lockout hockey, the bottom six isn't just about size anymore.


Is this supposed to prove your point? All these guys are much bigger than Desharnais and play a different kind of game.

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11-12-2011, 12:51 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
Is this supposed to prove your point? All these guys are much bigger than Desharnais and play a different kind of game.
The point is, none of them are big enough to win battles through shear size, they have to rely on quick hands and intelligence, like DD.

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11-12-2011, 12:52 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Habiton View Post
Stats dont show anything. Play DD just on the third line and see if he still racks up 45 points, in which case I would agree with you. He is getting 1st-2nd line minutes and a ridiculous amount of PP time, he is actually a major disappointment in that category.

I am not a fan of Gomez but ffs at least hold them in the same category. DD is not any better than Gomez, at least gomez has heard of defensive positioning, even if it messes up alot he isnt following the puck like a chicken with no head.

DD is not a good player yet. Plain and simple.
Last year, DD played on the third line (about 6 minutes per game less than Gomez) and put up points. He had less PP time per game last year than this year, but that is probably more a function of Gomez being unavailable putting a bigger share of the load on Desharnais.

Reality check: Gomez has been terrible defensively for some time now.

Would I like an upgrade on Desharnais? Of course, who wouldn't. I would like an upgrade at every position. Is Gomez that upgrade? Maybe a slight upgrade and maybe not. The difference in their contributions is small enough that no matter which side of the argument you choose, you could be right or wrong on any given night.

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Old
11-12-2011, 12:57 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan2k11 View Post
What does that even mean? Desharnais is a tweener...he has some nice skillsets but there's no place to put him. He is NOT an NHL centerman.

He can't play on the top 2 lines. He's also too small to play on the bottom 2. He's weak on faceoffs as well. So where does he go? On the wing? OK. But he gets pushed off the puck with ease and is weak along the boards. He's also not quick or skilled enough to be that small and be a top 6 winger. He's too small to be a grinder on the bottom 2 lines.

Desharnais is putting up points..but lets look at where and who he plays with. He gets TOP minutes on the powerplay and is usually insulated with 2 of the better wingers on the team.

I like the guy, but he's not better than Gomez....and that's saying a lot.
Bottom 6 guys in the NHL are not all 6'2" guys. Not sure where you get that impression.

Plus if our last 2 lines end up being AK-Eller-DD White/Blunden/Darche-Nokelainen-Moen we won't be lacking in size on the bottom 6 as all those guys are pretty much 6'+ and 200lbs+ other than DD.

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11-12-2011, 01:35 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
No he is not. If you say this, you didn't see Oleg play.
+1

I'd love to have Oleg Petrov back (I mean when he was here, not Oleg now)...

Little waterbug...

The guy forgets that Oleg had wheels, was defensively, quite good, and taught himself how to shoot.

If I am correct, the habs had an agreement with him a few years ago, to teach some young guns about acceleration.

DD doesnt play like Oleg...

I think DD is like Corey Locke (but a BETTER version) undersized, not full of skill, but so tenacious that it works for him (DD I mean). He doesnt have a natural passing ability, like Ribeiro had... And does not have a developed shot, like Oleg did.

His success is purely based on willpower and hard work. In short, Tenacity.

I'm willing to go further with DD... He hasnt played a full year in the NHL, and I for one, believe that he CAN be better than most are projecting him to be.

People talk about how we gave away Grabovski (hated that punk)... DD can be better than Grabo... Grabo is faster, but DD is more of a team player, and better vision. Grabo NEEDED those years developing in Toronto...

As far as the Gomez DD conversation though... People are saying that Gomez is better, because he plays better d... If we get in a 1-0 hole... Lately it's a death sentence when Gomez is playing, cause there goes 20 minuts of a game, which is held completely pointless.

DD at least has the ability to retaliate and even the score.

DD has a contract > $1 million...

Well, we all know Gomez'...

Gauthier, IMO I HOPE is looking to deal away Scott... I'll take the slight dip for now, and potential to improve on later (like the trade deadline) and give DD his chances...

Because Scott's 7.5 costs this team more than DD's game in comparison to Scotts.

Gomez simply is not worth it. Im not saying send him down to the AHL... But fin him a new home, FAST!

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Old
11-12-2011, 01:43 PM
  #116
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Nobody said DD played like Petrov...the comparison was that they are both small, skilled players that probably are not good enough to play on the top 9 for a good team.

In that sense i totally agree. Petrov certainly had more flash and wheels, but he had hands of stone and nowhere near the vision DD has.

The Habs need to find another solution to play down the middle. Looks like Derrick Brassard is a healthy scratch tonight...if he can be had for a reasonable price he would be a real interesting investment at this point and could eventually give us 3 nice center man with Pleks and Eller.

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11-12-2011, 01:51 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
No he is not. If you say this, you didn't see Oleg play.
I did see Petrov play, he was on some bad Montreal teams and finishing second in scoring with 45 points per year. He was built like a little tank and did his best, but those teams weren't best for him back then.

Gionta is a little man who plays a two way game and with edge, you have to have more than an offensive talent to stick unless you are elite, and DD is not.

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11-12-2011, 01:56 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by AHMB Prez View Post
No he is not. If you say this, you didn't see Oleg play.
Yeah, Petrov was a lot better than Desharnais will ever be. Then again, besides size, those two guys have nothing in common.

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11-12-2011, 01:56 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Patty Roy View Post
Nobody said DD played like Petrov...the comparison was that they are both small, skilled players that probably are not good enough to play on the top 9 for a good team.

In that sense i totally agree. Petrov certainly had more flash and wheels, but he had hands of stone and nowhere near the vision DD has.

The Habs need to find another solution to play down the middle. Looks like Derrick Brassard is a healthy scratch tonight...if he can be had for a reasonable price he would be a real interesting investment at this point and could eventually give us 3 nice center man with Pleks and Eller.
But that's the whole point... By accounts, Petrov DOES have a spot in a top 6 capacity on a poor team, and top 9 on a good one... He was very underrated apparently, because he had a complete game, and was doing it in the OLD NHL... In the new NHL, it was built for Oleg... IMO he would be a shoe in top 6, and arguably for a contender even...

The guy in his prime here, had 42 goals in 2 years... IMO If he returned in the season after 03-04... He would have played top 2 on most teams, simply because his elusiveness and wheels would have driven the defence nuts... How many interference plays would have been called on players defending Oleg? lol

The hands of stone... was in a different league. where he DID prove he COULD do it... just not consistently...

DD would NEVER have made the old NHL IMO... Oleg did, and for 3 years, was quite solid.

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11-12-2011, 02:01 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Patty Roy View Post
Nobody said DD played like Petrov...the comparison was that they are both small, skilled players that probably are not good enough to play on the top 9 for a good team.

In that sense i totally agree. Petrov certainly had more flash and wheels, but he had hands of stone and nowhere near the vision DD has.

The Habs need to find another solution to play down the middle. Looks like Derrick Brassard is a healthy scratch tonight...if he can be had for a reasonable price he would be a real interesting investment at this point and could eventually give us 3 nice center man with Pleks and Eller.
That would be funny, because a lot of people wanted him to get drafted by the Habs to play with Latendresse, he was his line-mate in junior!

Just for fun, what would you offer Columbus to get him?

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11-12-2011, 02:01 PM
  #121
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While I do feel that DD is slightly overrated as of late, I still take him and his salary 100 times out of 100 compared to Gomez and what Gomez brings. It isn't even close.

But that being said, no DD is not a full time top 6 NHL centerman. He's too small, he can't skate very well, can't win faceoffs, and he gets manhandled consistently. He has his strengths (mostly hard work, drive, and decent hockey IQ) but aside from being a PP specialist I don't think he has much else he can bring to the table (barring some big improvements to his game, which could happen).

As it is they have the 2 biggest and most physical wingers playing with him, which kinda sucks because it's not like Montreal is over flowing with big physical wingers...Would be nice to spread the 2 we have around instead of having both play on the same line to make up for a lack of physicality at C.

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11-12-2011, 02:03 PM
  #122
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How bout this thread stays on rumors and not a debate about DD, Gomez or Oleg Petrov.

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11-12-2011, 02:07 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by TheWhiteIdea View Post
How bout this thread stays on rumors and not a debate about DD, Gomez or Oleg Petrov.
Crap, I am guilty this time. Forgot to check which thread I was on.

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Old
11-12-2011, 02:09 PM
  #124
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While I do feel that DD is slightly overrated as of late, I still take him and his salary 100 times out of 100 compared to Gomez and what Gomez brings. It isn't even close.

But that being said, no DD is not a full time top 6 NHL centerman. He's too small, he can't skate very well, can't win faceoffs, and he gets manhandled consistently. He has his strengths (mostly hard work, drive, and decent hockey IQ) but aside from being a PP specialist I don't think he has much else he can bring to the table (barring some big improvements to his game, which could happen).

As it is they have the 2 biggest and most physical wingers playing with him, which kinda sucks because it's not like Montreal is over flowing with big physical wingers...Would be nice to spread the 2 we have around instead of having both play on the same line to make up for a lack of physicality at C.
But I guess the debate then goes to, what are the expectations of a second liner...

IMO if he had none of those flaws you are speaking of, he'd be a top line center...
A second line center I have usually envisioned as being one with MORE flaws than the first, but with an offensive edge.

His defensive coverage, while shoddy, should be given to the 1st and 3rd liners... DD is being used as a second line center if he is playing inferior competition and counted on for PP time. Why? Because that will equate to 15-20 minutes a game. i.e. approx. second line minutes...

IMO the numbering system on the lines is being read in to a bit much...

Top 2 lines means they are offensively minded... It doesnt necessarily mean they play the most minutes... Anybody still around from the cursed Juneau years would remember that one lol... The guy used to LEAD the team in TOI...


Top 2 lines, highly offensive minded lines...
Bottom 2, grinder/energy lines...

It also doesnt mean it MUST be this way... IMO the habs are built to be more fluid... More 2 way responsible...

But it cant be up for debate that Scott Gomez is more competent at playing 2nd line c than DD is... Because up to now, it's been proven quite the opposite. DD is doing a decent job, esp. having Eller, Pleks, and Nokes being the other to offshoot him with.

EKLUND's conversation, while being unlikely is valid. I can see the habs survive without Gomez, AND perhaps even prosper.


Last edited by Marchy79: 11-12-2011 at 02:17 PM.
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Old
11-12-2011, 02:14 PM
  #125
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How bout this thread stays on rumors and not a debate about DD, Gomez or Oleg Petrov.
Good idea.. This thread goes off track very easy it seems.. From Andrei Kostitsyn's future to DD now..

About time for another Habs rumor EK to get this thread back on track again..

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