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Old
11-13-2011, 11:30 AM
  #151
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I liked Palushaj a lot, it's too bad he'll be the one to go when Kostitsyn returns. But, I like our depth when Kostitsyn returns too. I'm thinking we might see;

Gomez - Plekanec - Gionta
Pacioretty - Desharnais - Cole
Cammalleri - Eller - Kostitsyn
Moen - Nokelainen - Darche

And I think that's pretty solid. Use the first line as the ultimate shutdown down-line (sorry Pleks!) and they'll still get some chances offensively too. Use the Eller line against similar opposition and let the Patches/DD/Cole line feast on the weak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuggy View Post
Ain't that the truth. If the PP was even half better than it is right now this team would probably at least a couple more wins.
(Just quoting you because you mentioned the PP sucking).

I thought Darche was the reason the PP sucked? If Martin took him off, everything would be good? Case in point. Darche is not a great PP option with as much offensive depth as we have, I agree. But he wasn't really doing anything that was making our PP suck as bad as it did. Our PP can't keep the puck in, the defense (or point men, I guess) give the puck away constantly, and we just can't set-up in general. Darche played 0 minutes on the PP last night and it still sucked. We just have 1) No one who can rush the puck in consistently (Gomez maybe, but he usually gets in and turns it over) and 2) No real PP QB with vision from the point (Markov will be a godsend).

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Old
11-13-2011, 11:40 AM
  #152
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I know it wont probably last for long but I wish Gomez could stay on the wing. I know he's good on face-off but I wouldn't replace him to the detriment of any centers we have now.

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Old
11-13-2011, 11:44 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by gopreds9 View Post
On another note, I want to apologize to anyone who was there for the 1 or 2 hooligans that booed during Oh Canada. Believe me, that is NOT what Nashville is about. I hope you don't let one or two idiots change your opinion of Nashville too much.
I can't speak for everyone, but I could really care less about what people do or don't do during an anthem. Anthem's mean nothing to me, and it would never change my opinion(or lack thereof) of people who inhabit a particular place.

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Old
11-13-2011, 11:45 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Stradale View Post
I know it wont probably last for long but I wish Gomez could stay on the wing. I know he's good on face-off but I wouldn't replace him to the detriment of any centers we have now.
Natey's idea of having him on LW with Plekanec and Gionta is definitely not a terrible one, I'd definitely like to see it tried.

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11-13-2011, 11:48 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by JGRB View Post
Natey's idea of having him on LW with Plekanec and Gionta is definitely not a terrible one, I'd definitely like to see it tried.
Yeah I saw. That what's make me think we could be much better with Gomez on the wing. Eller and DD are much better as centers, while Gomez with his experience, it shouldn't be a problem for him to be on the wing.

Love Natey's lines btw. Looks well balanced and effective.

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Old
11-13-2011, 11:52 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
I liked Palushaj a lot, it's too bad he'll be the one to go when Kostitsyn returns. But, I like our depth when Kostitsyn returns too. I'm thinking we might see;

Gomez - Plekanec - Gionta
Pacioretty - Desharnais - Cole
Cammalleri - Eller - Kostitsyn
Moen - Nokelainen - Darche

And I think that's pretty solid. Use the first line as the ultimate shutdown down-line (sorry Pleks!) and they'll still get some chances offensively too. Use the Eller line against similar opposition and let the Patches/DD/Cole line feast on the weak.


(Just quoting you because you mentioned the PP sucking).

I thought Darche was the reason the PP sucked? If Martin took him off, everything would be good? Case in point. Darche is not a great PP option with as much offensive depth as we have, I agree. But he wasn't really doing anything that was making our PP suck as bad as it did. Our PP can't keep the puck in, the defense (or point men, I guess) give the puck away constantly, and we just can't set-up in general. Darche played 0 minutes on the PP last night and it still sucked. We just have 1) No one who can rush the puck in consistently (Gomez maybe, but he usually gets in and turns it over) and 2) No real PP QB with vision from the point (Markov will be a godsend).
Gomez doesn't deserve to play with our best center.

Cammy-Pleks-Cole
MaxPac-DD-Gionta
Gomez-Eller-A.K.
Darche-Noke-Moen

i think this would work better. Gomez could take faceoffs instead of Eller sometimes.

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Old
11-13-2011, 11:58 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
Gomez doesn't deserve to play with our best center.

Cammy-Pleks-Cole
MaxPac-DD-Gionta
Gomez-Eller-A.K.
Darche-Noke-Moen

i think this would work better. Gomez could take faceoffs instead of Eller sometimes.
Why put your two best neutral zone puck carriers on one line?

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Old
11-13-2011, 12:00 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
Why put your two best neutral zone puck carriers on one line?
Gomez with Plekanec makes more sense ?

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Old
11-13-2011, 12:02 PM
  #159
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Gomez playing with Plekanec actually makes a bit of sense. Plekanec is by far our best goal scoring C.

That line would be lacking size, though Gionta and Pleks aren't THAT soft. I'd rather have Gionta there than Cammalleri for instance.

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Old
11-13-2011, 12:05 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Gomez playing with Plekanec actually makes a bit of sense. Plekanec is by far our best goal scoring C.

That line would be lacking size, though Gionta and Pleks aren't THAT soft. I'd rather have Gionta there than Cammalleri for instance.
Cammalleri, like Desharnais is much better off when he is "sheltered" with bigger bodies around him.. Which is why I think Natey's lines are really nice. Desharnais gets the two biggest wingers and Cammy gets our biggest center that creates the most space and Kostitsyn is a big body scoring threat on the other side.

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Old
11-13-2011, 12:10 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
Gomez with Plekanec makes more sense ?
Why not?

Again, why put your two best puck carriers on the same line? You only need one person to carry the puck through the neutral zone.

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Old
11-13-2011, 12:13 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by onice View Post
I'm using your post because you seem to be one of the few who isn't buying into the cool aide about Gomez.

DD has surpassed Gomez. Yes he might get occasionally knocked down and yes sometimes he gets shoved around but he has the best vision and the best hockey sense of any player on this team. Also what player on this team has no flaw? I see Gionta get flung around like a rag doll 2 or 3 times a game. No one complains he's weak.

DD rarely makes bone head plays like Gomez did on the PP. And that wasn't the only mistake leading to the Nashville goal. A few seconds earlier Gomez from the side of the Predator net goes to pass to the d-man, fluffs the pass and just watches the Nashville d-man pick it up and skate into the Habs zone, leading to the faceoff which resulted in the goal.

Then in over time he made that dumbass pass across the Predator goal when not one hab player was within 20 feet of the play. That resulted in a two on one which the predators screwed up. You rarely see DD make those mistakes. I counted Gomez making 8 pass attempts. Only two landed on a Habs stick. The other 6 went straight onto an opposing player.
You counted wrong.

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Old
11-13-2011, 12:14 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by gopreds9 View Post
Preds fan coming in peace.

Just wanted to say how classy the 50-100 Habs fans in attendance were. They represented you well.

On another note, I want to apologize to anyone who was there for the 1 or 2 hooligans that booed during Oh Canada. Believe me, that is NOT what Nashville is about. I hope you don't let one or two idiots change your opinion of Nashville too much.

Anyways, a good, well fought game. It was clean with no injuries, gotta love that at least.
AFAIK, Nashville always been a classy place for all fans. At least, when Hockey is concerned ('cause I am not knowledgeable otherwise).

Good game, indeed. I don't think much people actually care about the booing of the Oh Canada. It's not that big of a deal for a majority of us people... which is why some of our own stupid fanbase do it a bit liberally at time.

Let's meet again in the PO!!

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Old
11-13-2011, 12:21 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
Ummm, Cammy, lol
Ummmm don't look but usually, without Gomez, it would be Cammy-Pleks-Gionta; Cole-DD-MaxPac, Kost-Eller-Moen, and the 4th line. That's what it is usually for the past month. But just pretend it never happened....double lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
To be honest, Eller has been given either a scrapper or a rookie as a winger since the beginning of the year. Moen with AK and now Cammy/Palushaj since AK's been out.
If Eller is given Cammy and AK, you can expect his line to absolutely dominate.
I'm not knocking on DD, but he was given top wingers right from the beginning of the year. As for Eller, a kid that didn't have a camp, he's played some extremely good hockey. There is no reason to doubt he could outplay DD if given top wingers.

Also, Eller is usually more used at ES than DD. Actually he averages more time there than Gomez, Cole and Cammalleri as well and just one second under MaxPac. So I wouldn't be so quick to say Eller can't handle top 6 opposition.
He surely can handle top 6 opposition defensively. Just like Kris Draper used to do. Draper was not considered a top 6 forward based on that. But an extremely effective 3rd liner. Eller will have to put points on the board. Yet, while he's not playing with Cole and MaxPac, he is playing with AKost, and Moen. A Moen who has 5 goals already. No offensive juggernaut on the long run but right now, but Kosty and Moen are #2 and #3 on the goal front.

Unless you declare yourself as a team with 1 offensive line and 3 defensive ones, well you can't have a 2nd line centerman with 4 points in 16 games.

Nobody says he'll never achieve it. On the contrary, I believe in him to be that guy. But reality is that overall DD is being used more. Again, rare would be a team who would used their #2 centerman and top 6 player on the PP as well. And I also would not have my #2 centerman to be at 43% on the faceoff circle. As much as DD totally sucks at it....he's at 48%.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gopreds9 View Post
Preds fan coming in peace.

Just wanted to say how classy the 50-100 Habs fans in attendance were. They represented you well.

On another note, I want to apologize to anyone who was there for the 1 or 2 hooligans that booed during Oh Canada. Believe me, that is NOT what Nashville is about. I hope you don't let one or two idiots change your opinion of Nashville too much.

Anyways, a good, well fought game. It was clean with no injuries, gotta love that at least.
Don't worry. We're not like one fanbase in particular I'm thinking of.... We don't judge one full fanbase based on 1 or 2 stupid people.

Though my main problem is that while I will not judge an entire country based on some stupid people, it's really sad to hear some booing on every city the draft takes place in when our head scout starts to talk in french. That in reality is more problematic 'cause it happens pretty loudly and pretty much everwhere but in Montreal.

But as far as what happened in your building....there's nothing to it really.


Last edited by Whitesnake: 11-13-2011 at 01:05 PM.
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Old
11-13-2011, 12:54 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
He surely can handle top 6 opposition defensively. Just like Kris Draper used to do. Draper was not considered a top 6 forward based on that. But an extremely effective 3rd liner. Eller will have to put points on the board. Yet, while he's not playing with Cole and MaxPac, he is playing with AKost, and Moen. A Moen who has 5 goals already. No offensive juggernaut on the long run but right now, but Kosty and Moen are #2 and #3 on the goal front.

Unless you declare yourself as a team with 1 offensive line and 3 defensive ones, well you can't have a 2nd line centerman with 4 points in 16 games.

Nobody says he'll never achieve it. On the contrary, I believe in him to be that guy. But reality is that overall DD is being used more. Again, rare would be a team who would used their #2 centerman and top 6 player on the PP as well. And I also would not have my #2 centerman to be at 43% on the faceoff circle. As much as DD totally sucks at it....he's at 48%.
At the end of the day however, Eller is more used than DD at Even Strength. Rare are the teams that would regularly use their #3 center more than their #2.
We would have to see if DD's ES time went up if he wasn't used on the PP, but right now, I think it's more of a split.
I agree, Eller needs to produce more. I expect him to once AK comes back. They have great chemistry and dominate the opposition. If they're completed with Cammy, I believe it will be an amazing line.

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Old
11-13-2011, 01:04 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
At the end of the day however, Eller is more used than DD at Even Strength. Rare are the teams that would regularly use their #3 center more than their #2.
We would have to see if DD's ES time went up if he wasn't used on the PP, but right now, I think it's more of a split.
I agree, Eller needs to produce more. I expect him to once AK comes back. They have great chemistry and dominate the opposition. If they're completed with Cammy, I believe it will be an amazing line.
We are talking about a difference of 40 seconds here. And in a system who does roll the lines like there's no tomorrow, it's not rare to see teams that does that to have the 2nd line centerman play as much as the 3rd is.

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Old
11-13-2011, 01:10 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by gopreds9 View Post
Preds fan coming in peace.

Just wanted to say how classy the 50-100 Habs fans in attendance were. They represented you well.

On another note, I want to apologize to anyone who was there for the 1 or 2 hooligans that booed during Oh Canada. Believe me, that is NOT what Nashville is about. I hope you don't let one or two idiots change your opinion of Nashville too much.

Anyways, a good, well fought game. It was clean with no injuries, gotta love that at least.
thanks dude for coming to say hi,

wish you could get Carrie Underwood to sit behind the bench, that way it would be easier to watch the the dolly parton want to be, that sat behind Trotz.

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Old
11-13-2011, 01:27 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Does JM get any credit? How about Perry Pearn?
I personally have no complaints with the way Martin is directing his team. Only quibbles, and I'm not going to turn on a highly successful coach for quibbles.

In general, though, I'd bet Martin will not going to get any credit for the team's success from the vast majority of fans, even when/if the PP gets fixed and the Habs become a top-third offensive club.

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Old
11-13-2011, 01:35 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
We are talking about a difference of 40 seconds here. And in a system who does roll the lines like there's no tomorrow, it's not rare to see teams that does that to have the 2nd line centerman play as much as the 3rd is.
No teams will use their #3 more than #2 at ES unless they are at a similar talent level, or having an absolute career year.
Even Draper during his good years, arguably the best defensive forward in the NHL at the time, was not used more at ES than the #2 center. It happened during his career year, but also coincided with Yzerman slowing down a lot and averaging less minutes.

As I said, I believe it's a split more than anything.

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Old
11-13-2011, 02:07 PM
  #170
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Was there booing of Subban last night? My TV wasn't very loud, but at some points it sounded like there was at least a little more noise when he was carrying the puck. I didn't hear anything during the Anthem.

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11-13-2011, 02:20 PM
  #171
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A bit late on this, but I was in Nashville last evening and figured I'd give some in person impressions of what I saw.

A preface though: Impressed with the fans in Nashville, who were way more into it and aware than I imagined they would be. It was a good crowd that oo''d and ahh'd at the right moments. It wasn't Montreal, by any stretch, but this is one Southern team that deserves its franchise.

Anyway, some impressions that may have escaped those on TV:

- I finally fully understand the value of Hal Gill. He's a monster, of course, but he's a bit quicker than he looks on TV too. I only saw one play all game where his speed hurt him and he recovered nicely. Obviously we all know his ability to kill penalties, but he should be in the line-up no matter.

- Lars Eller has to be the most expressive player on the ice. He is like a QB out there. He is signaling with his hands to his defense about what to do when they retrieve the puck in deep and they seemed to take the direction. Contrast that to Desharnais and Plekanec who don't do that and it's interesting.

- I have no idea why Darche is in the NHL on the ice. As a teammate though seemed like a respected guy. He was on the bench pre-game talking with Price and lots of younger players had various chats with him throughout the game. He was like an assistant coach out there. Particularly saw him talking a lot to Weber of all people.

- Diaz was more solid than I gathered from TV too. He rarely made many mistakes, turned the puck around quickly and was generally solid in his own end. He also has a good ability to jump up and with a little more experience should be a big asset at both ends 5 on 5.

- Weber had a tough night in his own end. Likely just a bad evening.

- Despite the goal, Pacioretty seemed slow all night. Made me think he's nursing something.

- Cammy playing was a miracle. I was just behind the penalty boxes with a good view of the benches and he looked like he had been shot after every shift. Good on him to play, but hope he's not soldiering through a nagging injury that won't heal if he doesn't rest it.

- Budaj had a really good night, of course. Never worried me, good positioning, decent puck handling. Much happier with him than I imagined when they signed him.

- Palushaj has NHL speed and puck handling ability. Needs more experience, but I think he deserves to stick.

- Holy crap is PK Subban fast. Note on the scrum though at the end of the 2nd. He is nursing something. Tootoo didn't hurt him. He hurt himself delivering the initial contact.

- Brian Gionta was also mostly invisible.

- Gomez has great speed, but clearly not the faintest clue how to play wing. He kept ending up on the wrong side of the ice leaving guys open (particularly on the goal) and forcing the other winger to cover for him. I never fully figured out whether he was playing left wing or right wing because he appeared to just be playing center and going wherever. Probably why Darche seemed to have a rough night too, since he was trying to cover for him so much.

A couple more things:

- Didn't notice any booing during anthem from where I was, so it couldn't have been that bad.

- Noticed a tiny attempt to boo Subban once when he had puck, but it was mediocre at best.

- There were way more than a couple hundred Hab fans there. At least 1,000, probably more.

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11-13-2011, 04:43 PM
  #172
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Where are the DD bashers when you need them ?


Since the beginning of their new season after the first 8 games, the Pearn firing and the acquisition of Noke, the Habs are 5-2.
Here ! Ici ! He actually played a good game and looked like he deserved to be in the NHL. 1 out of 16 is pretty impressive.

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11-13-2011, 05:10 PM
  #173
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Thanks Lucius, always like hearing about the atmosphere at away games and opinions/perpectives from people who actually were at a Habs game.

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11-13-2011, 05:15 PM
  #174
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Thanks Lucius, always like hearing about the atmosphere at away games and opinions/perpectives from people who actually were at a Habs game.
Me too. There is a reason why scouts attend hockey games. The experience when you are there, and what you actually see on TV are completely different things.

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11-13-2011, 06:03 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by Lucius View Post
A bit late on this, but I was in Nashville last evening and figured I'd give some in person impressions of what I saw.

A preface though: Impressed with the fans in Nashville, who were way more into it and aware than I imagined they would be. It was a good crowd that oo''d and ahh'd at the right moments. It wasn't Montreal, by any stretch, but this is one Southern team that deserves its franchise.

Anyway, some impressions that may have escaped those on TV:

- I finally fully understand the value of Hal Gill. He's a monster, of course, but he's a bit quicker than he looks on TV too. I only saw one play all game where his speed hurt him and he recovered nicely. Obviously we all know his ability to kill penalties, but he should be in the line-up no matter.

- Lars Eller has to be the most expressive player on the ice. He is like a QB out there. He is signaling with his hands to his defense about what to do when they retrieve the puck in deep and they seemed to take the direction. Contrast that to Desharnais and Plekanec who don't do that and it's interesting.

- I have no idea why Darche is in the NHL on the ice. As a teammate though seemed like a respected guy. He was on the bench pre-game talking with Price and lots of younger players had various chats with him throughout the game. He was like an assistant coach out there. Particularly saw him talking a lot to Weber of all people.

- Diaz was more solid than I gathered from TV too. He rarely made many mistakes, turned the puck around quickly and was generally solid in his own end. He also has a good ability to jump up and with a little more experience should be a big asset at both ends 5 on 5.

- Weber had a tough night in his own end. Likely just a bad evening.

- Despite the goal, Pacioretty seemed slow all night. Made me think he's nursing something.

- Cammy playing was a miracle. I was just behind the penalty boxes with a good view of the benches and he looked like he had been shot after every shift. Good on him to play, but hope he's not soldiering through a nagging injury that won't heal if he doesn't rest it.

- Budaj had a really good night, of course. Never worried me, good positioning, decent puck handling. Much happier with him than I imagined when they signed him.

- Palushaj has NHL speed and puck handling ability. Needs more experience, but I think he deserves to stick.

- Holy crap is PK Subban fast. Note on the scrum though at the end of the 2nd. He is nursing something. Tootoo didn't hurt him. He hurt himself delivering the initial contact.

- Brian Gionta was also mostly invisible.

- Gomez has great speed, but clearly not the faintest clue how to play wing. He kept ending up on the wrong side of the ice leaving guys open (particularly on the goal) and forcing the other winger to cover for him. I never fully figured out whether he was playing left wing or right wing because he appeared to just be playing center and going wherever. Probably why Darche seemed to have a rough night too, since he was trying to cover for him so much.

A couple more things:

- Didn't notice any booing during anthem from where I was, so it couldn't have been that bad.

- Noticed a tiny attempt to boo Subban once when he had puck, but it was mediocre at best.

- There were way more than a couple hundred Hab fans there. At least 1,000, probably more.
I'll agree with you about patches. I think he's hurt as well. He's hitting below 1/game last time I checked and last year he was at about 1.7-1.9 iirc. Not that it's hurting his goal scoring ability much, I just think it might lend a bit to your theory that he's nursing something.

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